Anyone Got The Yaris Diesel?

[scionic]

Ah, I forgot to factor in the cost of the car. That is a good point man.

I still love 'em though.

They both have their strengths.

Petrol engines have to use electronics and sensors to constantly work to mainatain their ideal stoichiometric fuel/air ratio and emissions, that means more complexity. Oxygen sensors in the hot exhaust stream that inevitably fail, complex catalysts and so forth. Spark plugs and ignition timing. So much more to go wrong. Diesels are simple and rugged and are proven to last longer.

I can see gasoline engines for performance and for quieter operation at around town speeds though and it is find to wind them up if they are well tuned and sound nice.

What I can't understand is why anyone would prefer 91 lbft of torque at 4400 RPM to 144 lbft just off idle!

I've got a whopping 105 lbft of manly twist and I know which I prefer.

[alanbradley]

Diesel Price = 84p Per litre, fill up with 40 litres every 500 miles (better economy = more range) covering 10,000 miles a year = £2016

Add this to the cost of the car, which is 10% more and that makes a total of:

£13,016

So, that means you've got to do over 10,000 miles a year (our country's average) to justify the cost of running a noisier, less smooth, less nice car!

I would be the last to say that everyone should have a diesel (and I know you weren't infering that I was...) as your calculations are quite right. I cover about 20,000 a year - probably a bit more - and at that point the tables turn. You actually forgot the initial price premium of the diesel too - I worked it out many moons ago and I think the turning point is about 15k.

Again, I really have to take issue with the noisier bit though. On long journeys my car is much quieter than the petrols because at 80mph its still turning over less than 3k rpm whereas the petrols are screaming like banshees. We also get far more sound deadening. My car is also slightly noisier at a cold idle - fairly tractor like actually - but once warm it is much quieter than, for example, my mate's standard, petrol Alfa 147. Tal my be somethignt o do with Alfa build quality though

Less nice? Naaaah!

Oh yeah - the whole "diseasel" thing... You cannot compare the clenliness of a modern diesel to the clapped out wrecks posing as a pulblic transport system. Nothing annoys me more than being behind an old wreck pumping ouf fumes and blue smoke. Like me, my car doesn't smoke at all ;)

Cheers,

Alan :P

[seveer unaek]

So in conclusion.... in this day and age, a good diesel is as good as a good petrol providing you do over 15k miles a year and don't mind losing a bit of smoothness and a tadge of fun!

[scionic]

So in conclusion.... in this day and age, a good diesel is as good as a good petrol providing you do over 15k miles a year and don't mind losing a bit of smoothness and a tadge of fun!

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I think it depends on how you drive. If you like to rev the engine a bit more between the gears, a diesel's not as fun. If you like torque more than horsepower the diesel is MORE fun, especially when comparing smaller motors.

[keeperofthegate]

Less nice...!?!? I wouldn't have bought one or a Yaris for that matter if it was "less nice"! and how is it less smooth?? I've obviously missed something there.... <_<

[scionic]

I think he meant "less nice" from his personal perspective.

Diesels actually retain their resale value better than petrol models in most cases because people know the the diesel will still be faithfully running along when the petrol engine has long since been retired or rebuilt.

The smoothness I can only guess. The idle is quieter on a petrol car, I suppose that's what he's getting at. I think smoothness is subjective though. Gliding effortlessly on a fat swell of low end torque seems smoother and more dignified than flogging a small gas motor to 4000 rpm just to get a fraction of the thrust.

That "clatter" is power you're hearing. A more powerful combustion event that translates into more useable torque.

Kids today... I tell ya!

[Ryan1985]

Try cornering in a diesel aswell, it'll just keep going straight they weigh that much!!!

I'll hopefully never have to buy or put up with a diesel, really don't like them at all although my dads VW Passat 1.9TDi was okay I suppose, a bit tank like none the less!

[seveer unaek]

I think it depends on how you drive. If you like to rev the engine a bit more between the gears, a diesel's not as fun. If you like torque more than horsepower the diesel is MORE fun, especially when comparing smaller motors.

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I don't need torque! Doesn't suit my driving... like you say... i like the revs, i love driving and playing around with the car, stirring the gears, working the best amount of power from whats available adds up to a greater smile than sitting in 4th cruising on a waft of torque for me.

And yes, the less nice thing was my personal feelings. In no way did i mean to offend anyone... all Yarii are great to me, but until im some company rep doing over 20k miles a year, then petrol is always going to be for me. Even when that happens, it'd take some effort to get me in a diesel.

On the smoothness, i mean that in a diesel you don't really need to care about the car, you can clatter the gears as much as you like and it doesn't care, this creates vibrations. Other vibrations are made in diesels more so than petrol's especially at idle and town speeds. Plus, there's always the clatter, the lack of aural pleasures from the exhaust and the fact that the petrol pump is black! I like colour!

It is all, of course personal preference... i, like many others much prefer petrol power. I know the Yaris isn't a performance machine, so no comparisons are to be made with a yaris, but when was the last time a sports car ran on diesel? When was a rally car or an F1 car run on diesel?? They weren't... diesel was intended to give large shove for 4wd cars to get up hills and the rugged-ness of the engine is to allow it to plow through water!

[b1ackb1rd]

I'm a D4D owner, and we also have a petrol 1.3 Yaris in the family.

There's ALWAYS a fight for the D4D keys, it's quicker, smoother, quieter and we get over 600 miles out of each tank.

0-60 times, torque figures etc mean nothing to the family ... they grab the D4D keys cos it's simply a better car than the petrol.

[dimitrios]

as an engineer, I have learned the advantages of diesel/petrol etc.

Unfortunately, UK is the only country in Europe (which I know) where diesel is more expensive than petrol.

Unfortunately, in my country,diesel is not allowed in the big cities,where 80% of the population leaves.

But there are 3 more things I would like to point out.

1)Yes the very very new diesels are clean, efficient and less noisy.But that counts only for the latest ones,and usually the japanese/german ones which have the extra filters in the exhaust

2)However, I have driven behind such cars and I have found out that they throw out of the exhaust a lot of black smoke while accelerating.So, they dont seem so clean to me.They also smell awful.I am talking for the very new ones.

3)In Germany VW is accused for an increase in many types of cancer because of their diesel engines.Has anybody heard of this?

[seveer unaek]

3)In Germany VW is accused for an increase in many types of cancer because of their diesel engines.Has anybody heard of this?

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Yes... not just in Germany either. Diesel is NOT a cleaner fuel than petrol.

Also, B1ackb1rd... strange family! No way is a d4d quicker than a 1.3... depends on how it's driven! Also, iv been in both cars and iv been in plenty of other cars and not one single diesel has been quieter than their equivalent petrol. Maybe at 80mph because of lesser revs, but that's breaking the limit anyways, and the diesel noise to get to 80mph is far worse!

I like to hear my engine, hear what's going on... my petrol engine & exhaust sound nice... before i had new exhaust it sounded nice.... a diesel does not sound nice... it never will.

A diesel is for lazy drivers, a petrol is for drivers who want to drive.

[scionic]

I don't need torque! Doesn't suit my driving... like you say... i like the revs, i love driving and playing around with the car, stirring the gears, working the best amount of power from whats available adds up to a greater smile than sitting in 4th cruising on a waft of torque for me.

On the smoothness, i mean that in a diesel you don't really need to care about the car, you can clatter the gears as much as you like and it doesn't care, this creates vibrations.

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Clatter the gears? Don't need to care about the car? What are you talking about man? I don't want to get in another row with you man, but that really, really makes it sound like you don't a damn thing about cars. I hope that paragraph was meant as a joke.

I do agree with you about the sports car thing though. Diesel combustion is slow and the pressure spike is extreme. Very high cylinder pressures. These two things make it very hard for a diesel to rev high and fast, which is key to producing lots of horsepower. Though, there' are fast diesel cars, the BMW 330d comes to mind. It will give sound thrashing to any Yaris. But diesel will never be the choice for dedicated sports cars or F1, you're right there. Then again, neither will 1.3 or 1.5 liter economy engines with barely 100 lbft of torque!

I enjoy both diesels and gasoline engines, but I think diesels have tremendous advantages most people do not realize out of simple ignorance. I bet you've hardly even driven any of the newer diesels.

[scionic]

About diesel exhaust cleanliness, for anyone interested in the actual facts:

PETROL has lower nitrogen oxides and particulant than diesels

DIESEL is less toxic and has lower carbon monoxide than PETROL

Diesel is worse for localized pollution, it produces more NOx which becomes ground-level ozone. Bad for people breathing in the air nearby.

Petrol however produces more carbon monoxide, which unlike NOx or ozone, is actually deadly. Petrol cars produce more CO2 than diesel cars as well, which contributes to global warming. Petrol, the liquid itself is more toxic than diesel. The exhaust from a petrol engine is more toxic as well. If you were to idle a diesel and a petrol in seperate garages and have a person sit in each---- the person in the petrol garage would die FIRST because of the carbon monoxide. FACT.

Not saying the diesel garage guy wouldn't be puking his guts out sick, but the exhaust is less poisionous.

Diesel itself can have algae growing in it if left for long periods. Petrol is far to toxic for anything to live in it.

Those are the FACTS, feel free to argue with them if you wish, I challenge anyone else to provide evidence to the contrary. I know what I am talking about.

[scionic]

BMW 330D

Fantastically frugal; fearsomely fast

BMW squares the circle with 330d - more than 40 miles per gallon and sports car performance.

Everyone knows that diesel cars are clunky, underpowered and dirty. The only people that buy diesels hate cars and driving, and just want the cheapest motoring possible, right? Wrong.

Introducing the BMW 330d - d as in diesel. The car that shows fast and frugal aren’t oxymorons.

The car is not perfect so lets get the bad news out of the The car is not perfect so lets get the bad news out of the way first.

When you fire up the 330d it sounds like a truck. The engine rattles and clatters and the steering wheel and dashboard buzz and vibrate. The neighbours will be peeking through their lace curtains wondering what big lorry is making all that noise. It can’t be that sleek little BMW parked across the street can it?

With the engine idling this car is noisy. But put it into gear and move off and it is all vigour and smoothnesss. The car will trundle along in town or country lanes happily enough in top gear, fifth, but fourth gear will give a snappier pickup at about 1,500 revolutions per minute (rpm). It is noisier than a petrol powered equivalent like the BMW 325i and 330i but not intrusively so. In fact the noise, more like a powerful growl, makes the petrol powered cars seem a bit bland.

Out of town and pressed through the gears the 330d will give you seamless, hell-for-leather acceleration, with full power available as soon as a higher gear is selected. This is where modern high-tech diesels have an advantage over traditional petrol engines, providing full power from about 2,000rpm up to about 4,500. The 330d reaches peak pulling power from 1,75rpm to 3,200 rpm. Petrol powered cars often need to reach beyond 4,500 before giving full power.

The 330d will hit 62mph in 7.8 seconds, about the same as the previous “3” series petrol-powered range-topper the 328i, but compared with 6.5 seconds for the new 330i. The diesel’s low down pulling power gives the 330d power where you really want it - for safe and fast overtaking. The 50 to 75mph acceleration time in fourth gear takes 6.9 seconds - faster than a BMW “5” series with a 3.5 litre petrol engine. BMW says the 330d will go on to reach 141mph.

The outside lane on the motorway is where the 330d comes into its own. On speed-limit-free zones like German autobahns, cruising at between 90 and 100 miles per hour in top gear, the car will leap forward eagerly when the accelerator is depressed. And this is where the car is at its most impressive. At a steady 90 miles per hour the engine is turning over at a mere 2,800rpms, and the fuel consumption gauge says 50 miles per gallon.

Overall, BMW said the car will return an average 41.5 miles per gallon.

The 330d’s combination of power and efficiency is down to its three litre, in-line six cylinder diesel engine using the latest “common rail” system of diesel fuel delivery. This produces 184bhp, compared with the 330i petrol engine’s 230bhp.

BMW reckons that this combination of frugality and performance will be irresistible to company fleet buyers.

“The new 330d SE has the potential to creat a new segment for compact diesel ‘muscle’ cars," said Max Kellner, Managing Director of BMW (GB) Ltd.

“Despite its superb performance on the road, the 330d manages to retain the diesel benefits of fuel economy and low CO2 emissions which are so important to corporate customers,” Kellner said

“Low CO2 emissions will prove very attractive in the new tax regime for Vehicle Excise Duty and company car taxation. The latter is of particular interest to company fleet managers who may seek to encourage move towards more tax efficient diesel models,” Kellner said.

The 330d SE is priced at £26,740 and includes automatic air conditioning, traction control, matt chrome interior, computer, and windscreen wipers that turn themselves on when it rains. You could save more than £5,000 by ordering it through Internet car retailer www.oneswoop.com, which will deliver to your door.

[seveer unaek]

What are you?? A walking BMW advert. There in lies another point, you've just said how great a BMW is. BMW's are not driven by anyone with a thread of niceness in them. You have to be 100% n*b head to drive a beemer.

Plus, NO WAY does a BMX diesel sound better than their 6 cylinder petrol models. Not a chance in hell. The 6 cylinder engines are creamy smooth and sound fabulous... the diesels don't.

On the clunking gears business, i meant that diesels can take far more abuse than petrols and are easier to drive due to the torque, so they can be driven lazy.

On the race car thing.... i said no comparisons to a Yaris... can you not read little man?

Also, The vast majority of cars are driven in popultaed areas, so diesel is worse for us. Plus, yes car's emit more C02, but for all the cars in the world, this only accounts for 0.5% of the C02 produced in the whole world. The trees deal with that.

Yes, more Carbon Monoxide is produced, but that's what catalytic converters are for. Many new cars, especially the new Saab PETROL's put out cleaner air than they take in. FACT. Also, run 2 modern cars in a garage to see which kills you first and you're a c*ck, so that's a bo**ocks argument isn't it!

And yes, i have driven a modern diesel. And i don't like them.... no revs, diesel grumble always present and they just don't suit me.

Obviously we are never going to agree, so i think it's best left whats been said. Except for this... I got all my answers in one post, you used 3.... Why?? Sounds like post-building to me. Get a job.

[keeperofthegate]

Ok... I've been watching this thread for a while and trying not to interfere.

@ seveer unaek

You have made it VERY clear that you do not like diesels and my bad for thinking that your "less nice" comment was about the Yaris D-4D which I understand you have "been in" but not driven? There have been zillions of debates about petrol v diesel engines... however there is no need to offend people by saying that they are for "lazy drivers" etc. it's extremely unnecessary. I didn't choose the D-4D over a 1.3 Yaris for no reason!

@ scionic

There is NO point trying to defend diesels on a site where petrol cars are predominantly owned... you are more than likely going to get into an argument...

So... stop winding each other up! You are just offending others in the process!!!

You've both expressed your views just leave it at that! <_<

[scionic]

Plus, NO WAY does a BMX diesel sound better than their 6 cylinder petrol models. Not a chance in hell. The 6 cylinder engines are creamy smooth and sound fabulous... the diesels don't.

I agree, sort of.

On the clunking gears business, i meant that diesels can take far more abuse than petrols and are easier to drive due to the torque, so they can be driven lazy.

What's that got to do with 'clunking gears' mate? If you mean that you can slow down to enter a parking lot in 2nd or 3rd gear without the engine sputtering and pinging like your 1.3 would, then yes, I agree. I don't know if that means driving lazy or if it means you've got sufficient torque. Depends on your perspective I suppose.

On the race car thing.... i said no comparisons to a Yaris... can you not read little man?

The naive 19 yr old who knows nothing about cars calling me 'little man' Now there's irony.

Yes, more Carbon Monoxide is produced, but that's what catalytic converters are for. Many new cars, especially the new Saab PETROL's put out cleaner air than they take in.

Cleaner air than what they take in.... OK sport

Why don't you just admit you know nothing about cars and stop trying to participate in conversations like this man? All kidding aside, If I were in your position, I would at least spend a weekend reading on http://auto.howstuffworks.com/

Do that and you'll be much better prepared for this sort of debate.

And yes, i have driven a modern diesel. And i don't like them.... no revs, diesel grumble always present and they just don't suit me.

That's cool. I'm not trying to make you like them. I'm just trying to blow the myths out of the water. I cannot stand idly by while people spread misinformation. It makes me very angry.

Obviously we are never going to agree, so i think it's best left whats been said. Except for this... I got all my answers in one post, you used 3.... Why?? Sounds like post-building to me. Get a job.

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We don't have to agree, I'm OK with that. I'm not post building, I'm just a wordy m*therf*cker Do people actually take pride in their post-count? How pathetic.

No, I will not get a job, damn it!

[Red Yaris 54]

I have NOT got a diesel :D

[GIDDLEPIN]

seveer, what diesels have you driven?

Moffmo

[scionic]

Here's where he's got to decide whether to lie, or come clean and admit he's driven none and his experience with diesels amounts to riding in some London taxis

[Red Yaris 54]

I tried the Yaris diesel........but bought a petrol :)

[seveer unaek]

Only a few... the Picasso 1.6 HDi, supposodly a good engine, The Nissan Micra Dci... not bad at all to be honest, but still not my taste, and the god awful Vauxhall Corsa diesel. (granted, that's going to be bad from the word 'Vaux...'!) But all not my taste.

To keeperofhthegate.... very sorry mate to have offended you. I justified what i said in another post, but that doesn't make it right. Very sorry for the offence casued.

To Scionic... the comment about the Saab is 110% true.... try looking it up if you don't believe me.

Also, I call you little man in a joking way, like in reference to Gangster films etc, plus the fact that i ain't small, so most people are little man to me. And yes, i admit and i know that im still only 19 and maybe a little naive, but i do know some things about cars, granted not on the scale you seem to know about them, but then, what good does your knowledge have? In all the posts iv read of yours, not once have you helped somebody, it's just a wave of know-it-all.

Anyway, this is never going to be settled, so here endeth my discussion!

[scionic]

I'd like to think I've helped people but who knows.

People ask questions and I answer them when I can. I think that's helpful.

I don't care about being a know-it-all, but I have to admit it really burns me up when someone spreads incorrect information and insists upon it. That's probably why you and I have butted heads a few times. I do my best not to make serious statements unless I am certain they are factual. If I am guessing, I say so clearly. If I don't know or I'm wrong I'll admit that readily.

That's all I ask anyone else to do.

I couldn't find anything on the Saab, I looked it up before answering you the first time. Even a Prius can't claim to put out exhaust cleaner than ambient air. I think you're mistaken, again.

[b1ackb1rd]

Diesel or petrol?

Opinions are like a*seholes, everyone has one !

I drove a 1.3 petrol around France for a month clocking up 2k miles, then came home and bought a D4D.

[Red Yaris 54]

Diesel or petrol?

Opinions are like a*seholes, everyone has one !

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But some a**eholes have more than one opinion ;) :D