Increase Low End Torque 0-60?

[admanirv]

Hi,

i own a t sport i have noticed there are a few mods envy are selling namely sports cat and manifold, however with my knowledge these will increase top end torque and bhp but not lower acceleration.

I only have a apexi relocated, and removed back tyre and back seat. this should help acceleration.

if any one good give me advice for lower end 0-60 increases only that would be great.

p.s i dont want to buy a supercharger etc, or another car just yet, just want to weight up my options!.

regards

[scionic]

Lower (numerically higher) final drive ratio or a lower 1st gear would give you a similar effect to more low end torque, but no mod short of forced induction or engine work to increase the stroke is going to give you measurably more torque. The little induction systems and shiny mufflers and exhaust bits all just help top end a bit.

I think your Yaris has a 3.90 final drive, if you were to swap in the 4.30 final drive from my car, that would give you a big kick in the rear, but at the expense of 5th gear fuel economy of course. We have the same transmission so this is something that could be done if you wanted. I think it would definitely be a wise step somewhere along the way in building a fast Yaris.

[vladrulli]

hmm... 3.9 to 4.3... that's not a bad idea... :)

but that will make the car drive at higher rpm right? more noise and engine wear...?

[seveer unaek]

hmm... 3.9 to 4.3... that's not a bad idea... :)

but that will make the car drive at higher rpm right? more noise and engine wear...?

←

Yes!

MPG will sink and motorway speeds will be quite loud! But, the payoff will be the ability to beat most things away from the lights. But... that's hardly legal or sensible, so what's it matter?? (Still damn fun though! Bye Mr 206/Clio/Fiesta!)

[dimitrios]

for low end torque the best thing to put is the dastek unichip.

I have seen figures from cars from our club, (www.yarisclub.gr/go to the gallery option)

and I am well impressed.

Unfortunately the unichip costs 500 quid in the UK installed. We get it for 200quid less though, so it's good money/power ratio.

For improvement of 0-60, try the following.Minimise the weight,try stiffer suspension at the back,and softer front tyres. DONT put bigger rims!

[s0cks]

for low end torque the best thing to put is the dastek unichip.

I have seen figures from cars from our club, (www.yarisclub.gr/go to the gallery option)

and I am well impressed.

Unfortunately the unichip costs 500 quid in the UK installed. We get it for 200quid less though, so it's good money/power ratio.

For improvement of 0-60, try the following.Minimise the weight,try stiffer suspension at the back,and softer front tyres. DONT put bigger rims!

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Could you not import em to us then for that cheaper price ;)

I don't know what the big deal is about low end torque, just drop a gear and floor it. Car sounds so much nicer at higher revs :D

[seveer unaek]

I don't know what the big deal is about low end torque, just drop a gear and floor it. Car sounds so much nicer at higher revs :D

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EXACTLY my point in that diesel argument! Use the damn gearbox! That's what it's for!

[admanirv]

for low end torque the best thing to put is the dastek unichip.

I have seen figures from cars from our club, (www.yarisclub.gr/go to the gallery option)

and I am well impressed.

Unfortunately the unichip costs 500 quid in the UK installed. We get it for 200quid less though, so it's good money/power ratio.

For improvement of 0-60, try the following.Minimise the weight,try stiffer suspension at the back,and softer front tyres. DONT put bigger rims!

←

though some had one on drb5? and it wasnt any good?

[seveer unaek]

for low end torque the best thing to put is though some had one on drb5? and it wasnt any good?

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Yeah, drb5 had one, it was about £500 for about 10bhp maximum, and it made it a bit too rich at the top end, only thing i think it improved was low end torque, but £500 for that?? No thanks!

[admanirv]

checked it, it was

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.p...28341&hl=dastek

load of crap these dastek chips

[Chuck04]

dbr5 wasnt impressed with the chip tho, for money worth didnt do much, the ecu is to cleaver for the chip and manages to ignore it i thought

[dimitrios]

dbr5 wasnt impressed with the chip tho, for money worth didnt do much, the ecu is to cleaver for the chip and manages to ignore it i thought

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the ECU cant ignore the unichip.its not just a chip it is a piggyback controller.Since the signals going to the ECU are modified,the ECU cant ignore them.

Probably they didnt do a good work on his car.

And for £300 I think is a good mod.Especially if somebody has already done some mods previously and the ECU needs adjustment to give the best results.

I cant import them.The thing is that here they cost £300 and £200 is labour and in my country £200 and £100 is labour.Labour costs are so damn high in the UK.

For eg Mr T charges £60 per hour here but only £22 in my country.

[admanirv]

dbr5 wasnt impressed with the chip tho, for money worth didnt do much, the ecu is to cleaver for the chip and manages to ignore it i thought

←

the ECU cant ignore the unichip.its not just a chip it is a piggyback controller.Since the signals going to the ECU are modified,the ECU cant ignore them.

Probably they didnt do a good work on his car.

And for £300 I think is a good mod.Especially if somebody has already done some mods previously and the ECU needs adjustment to give the best results.

I cant import them.The thing is that here they cost £300 and £200 is labour and in my country £200 and £100 is labour.Labour costs are so damn high in the UK.

For eg Mr T charges £60 per hour here but only £22 in my country.

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suppose what im getting at is will the dastek unichip lower the 0-60 with my apexi relocated as well?!? im wonderin what ill get?

yeah damn right mate , labour costs are so damn high here! booo :(

[dimitrios]

Because I like to talk with figures and not just with words;This is the dynometer chart,from a yaris Tsport, member of the Greek Yaris Club.

The red line represents the torque with a correctly fitted induction kit,and exhaust muffler.

The blue line represents the torque including all above plus Dastek Unichip plus changes in the exhaust diameter (which proved later to be wrong-too large diameter)

The green line represents the torque with all the above but with correct diameter of exhaust pipes and a race cat fitted.The exhaust manifold is the stock one on this car.

The dastek unichip as you can see in the graph gives you at least +2 kgm of torque at 2000 rpm. Furtherore you have 93% of your torque available at 2000 rpm!

What does diesel say to that?You have to note that with diesel the availabe torque is there for only a small margin and you need to change gears all the time plus you are short of power at 5000 rpm.With Tsport you can go up to 6700 rpm.

This graph cannot be used outside the TOC.Legal action will be taken against anyone breaking this rule.All rights reserved.

[vladrulli]

I might get me a SMT-6 piggy-back computer after I install the headers+cat+backbox+2" piping this summer... costs me around 333pounds with all the setup and tuning...

more on it here:

http://www.gstuning.net/xodus_prod_info.asp?id=61

[s0cks]

I must say, that is an impressive amount of torque at the low end. Gone from hardly anything to 93%! Amazing.

[dimitrios]

I must say, that is an impressive amount of torque at the low end. Gone from hardly anything to 93%! Amazing.

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hmm the graph doesnt start from 0 on the y axis. it starts from around 100.

Just a quick note guys and girls.

The torque on the graph is the real torque of the engine.You should add on that number, the losses which are about 15 to 18%. The number you get, you can then compare it to the torque given by Toyota.

But anyway,since in all three runs we compare the same quantity, it is easily seen that unichip helps.

[scionic]

for low end torque the best thing to put is the dastek unichip.

I have seen figures from cars from our club, (www.yarisclub.gr/go to the gallery option)

and I am well impressed.

Unfortunately the unichip costs 500 quid in the UK installed. We get it for 200quid less though, so it's good money/power ratio.

For improvement of 0-60, try the following.Minimise the weight,try stiffer suspension at the back,and softer front tyres. DONT put bigger rims!

←

Wow. I've never heard of a chip that produces significant results in a non-turbo car.

That's beyond amazing if I'm reading those dynocharts right. Am I correct understanding that with nothing more than this unichip, you got 14-16 more bhp?

This goes against a lot of what I understand honestly. I'm a still a little suspicious, no offense.

Chips increase fuel and boost in a turbo car to give good results, but there is very little that can be changed in a naturally aspirated cars parameters. Fuel/air ratio has to remain the same for emissions and smooth running. The only thing I can imagine it doing its advancing ignition timing, which will only work if you run high octane fuel and it's hard on the engine.

I'm very, very, very curious about how this chip does this exactly.

[scionic]

hmm... 3.9 to 4.3... that's not a bad idea... :)

but that will make the car drive at higher rpm right? more noise and engine wear...?

←

Yes!

MPG will sink and motorway speeds will be quite loud! But, the payoff will be the ability to beat most things away from the lights. But... that's hardly legal or sensible, so what's it matter?? (Still damn fun though! Bye Mr 206/Clio/Fiesta!)

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Seveer, you gain about 2-300 rpm @ gear/speed at most.

That doesn't mean MPG sinks and motorway speeds are suddenly amazingly loud.

I've driven an Echo and my car, so I know exactly what the difference is like between 3.9 and 4.3 on this motor.

It will affect top gear MPG, but any other time, if you simply shift a little earlier, it has no negative effect on mileage, it just gives you the option of having a fair amount of extra response if you put your foot in it and don't upshift.

BTW, I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but a lightened flywheel will also help off the line response a bit and general acceleration. It's worth noting though, that it can make the car a bit trickier to drive. A light flywheel spins up quicker, making RPMS rise faster, but it also loses momentum more quickly which can make shifts less smooth unless you really snap them off.

[dimitrios]

Wow. I've never heard of a chip that produces significant results in a non-turbo car.

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well,for everything there is a first time

That's beyond amazing if I'm reading those dynocharts right. Am I correct understanding that with nothing more than this unichip, you got 14-16 more bhp?

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thats a torque chart.I didnt post the the horsepower chart.

If you read a couple of posts over this you will see what is currently installed on the car.

This car got about 12 extra horsepower.You can see this chart and many other charts from yaris cars,with and without the unichip installed, if you go to the www.yarisclub.gr, to the gallery option,and click on the Dyno day

This goes against a lot of what I understand honestly. I'm a still a little suspicious, no offense.

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well you can be as much suspicious as you want.but how about this?we have a 1.3 yaris in the club that is faster than a stock 1.5.that 1.3 has got the gearbox as the tsport,but it doesnt have cams or turbo or nitro.It is just first stage tuned.

Chips increase fuel and boost in a turbo car to give good results, but there is very little that can be changed in a naturally aspirated cars parameters. Fuel/air ratio has to remain the same for emissions and smooth running.

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well here you are wrong.As I have mentioned previously,toyotas are running very rich.Stoichiometric A/F ratio is not the one that gives you the best power.The best power comes with A/F at around 12:1.

The only thing I can imagine it doing its advancing ignition timing, which will only work if you run high octane fuel and it's hard on the engine.

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no special fuel.Just normal petrol which can be found in any greek petrol station.

[scionic]

Hmm..

Stoichiometric A/F and OEM ignition timing is what keeps pistons from melting and gets your car passing emissions tests though.

Some people will go for power at any cost, but I need my engine to last for a while.

It's good to know there is another option though, thanks for the info on this. I would advise anyone thinking of that 'unichip' to read that other thread by a TOC member who bought one to see his experience with it.

[dimitrios]

Hmm..

Stoichiometric A/F and OEM ignition timing is what keeps pistons from melting and gets your car passing emissions tests though.

Some people will go for power at any cost, but I need my engine to last for a while.

It's good to know there is another option though, thanks for the info on this. I would advise anyone thinking of that 'unichip' to read that other thread by a TOC member who bought one to see his experience with it.

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well,I am not trying to convience anybody that unichip is bad or good.I am just showing the results from a car,to prove that it really helps with low end torque.

All Dastek Tuners are not the same good.And every car is different.It doesnt mean that if I got 15 extra horsepower in my car you will get the same if you program the chip exactly as I programmed it.Thats the magic with the unichip.It is programmed accordingly for each car,and for the mods you did so far.

To sum up, I havent heard of any car from our club having problems after the installation,they all seem to be very happy with it.They only "problem" is that everybody gets used to it and wants more horsepower after a while. :D

[scionic]

hmm... 3.9 to 4.3... that's not a bad idea... :)

but that will make the car drive at higher rpm right? more noise and engine wear...?

←

Not really a noticeable difference in noise, you can shift when ever you want, if its on an automatic the car will shift at the same RPM.

Just slightly more noise and wear theoretically at motorway speeds.

For example, if you were at 2800 rpm at 100 km/h then you would go up to 3000 rpm or so at 100 km/h.

It's not as if 2800 is whisper quiet and 3000 is roaring loud, the difference isn't huge.

It's also not like your engine will die 50,000 miles sooner because you squeeze out +200 rpm on the highway.

The main negative would be if you drive long trips on the motorway and tend to drive a little fast. In that case, you would see a small hit in your fuel economy I'd think. It's just not an option here though. Especially with the mountains we have in Arizona. The 3.90 gearing would have my car laboring a bit on the long mountianous hills on the motorway, it can just make it as it is. Then again, my car is about 120kg heavier than a Yaris so...

[dimitrios]

the final drive in the tsport is 4.312

http://www.toyota.de/showroom/yaris_2003/specs.asp

[scionic]

the final drive in the tsport is 4.312

http://www.toyota.de/showroom/yaris_2003/specs.asp

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Ah, so it looks like Toyota has the same idea I did.

So T-sports ARE faster than the regular 1.5 liter equipped Echo sold here then!

I don't speak German. I'm assuming what I'm looking for is Achsübersetzung?

If so, it looks like the 1.3 liter has a 3.722 Achsübersetzung

The 1.4 diesel has a Achsübersetzung of 3.526

And the 1.0 liter apparently has no final drive ration as the line is blank.

So it looks like the 1.3 liter Yaris drivers might benefit from even the 3.9 gearing used in the U.S., or the 4.3 on the more extreme side. I'm guessing they have taller gearing because they are intended for maxiumum fuel economy.

Furthermore, any TS driver that wants better fuel mileage could swap in some D4-D cogs.