Mondeoman To Avensesman?

[tackletart]

Hi Smart Jim,

Picking my T3X up next week and will be doing the same daily M3 hack (fromWimborne) in a red one, ill look out for you....

I have just hired a 407 as my 406 has gone back, quite impressed, diesel very fast and handles superb, hope i dont regret ordering the T3!!

Im still trying to straighten my back from driving the 406.

Regards

Richard

J1mbo, don't be phased by the 'pipe & slippers' stereotyping of Avensis owners!

I'm not much older (31) and have had plenty of vehicles since gaining my licence at 17, including the flagship Vauxhall Omega Elite 3.0 V6 to my last car a 600cc Smart City Coupe (my local dealer's - Inchcape - charge for the 10k service is actually cheaper than I paid for the last 10k main dealer Smart service! 

I was going to get a current shape Vectra as I'm partial to Vauxhalls, however, IMO it would be dearer to service, dearer to insure, depreciate faster, and there are just too many around!!

The smart money is on the Avensis: nice engine, very nice slushy autobox (could do with a 5th gear tho), the mutts nuts of a sound system - it easily matches the quality of my home cinema system which runs a grands worth of Kef speakers & top grade amp!  It has the fit & finish of those germanic brands i.e. A4, Passat, 320i etc.

I chose the T3-x variant as the climate control, trim upgrade etc outweighed the value of the sat-nav.

Apart from the lack of a CD auto changer, I only wish the car came with cruise control for the daily hack along the M3.

Try one - you may be surprised.

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[Avensis wagon]

Just bought an Avensis. The other contenders were: Mazda6, Octavia, Primera. Never considered the Mondeo, which although a little dated now handles better than the aforementioned with exception of the Mazda6.

Mazda6 was out because, although a superb fun drive, way too noisy inside, a bit choppy on the bumps for a family car, and a new model coming in autumn. Build quality and reliability can be assumed reasonable as with all Japanese. I like Mazda.

Primera agreesively priced. Not badly built but behind the Mazda and Avensis. Handles OK. Central console too fiddly -- who wants to go through a menu to adjust the aircon ect? Not a bad car over all, but unexceptional once you take away a couple of toys that don't add value. 1.8 engine comparatively underpowered, 2 litre too thirsty. I think that's what did it for me.

Octavia right out -- was hopeful but soon found it's in the smaller size category, built from the Golf. People say it's well built but I didn't think so. Small seats, small car. A knob already broken on the test car. Display too small to read and partly blocked by steering wheel. 2 litre engine best of the bunch with good power and best fuel economy. Handles well, if not a little numb. When they say it's good, remember good for its smaller class. More is expected of bigger cars.

Avensis for me. Reliable, refined, more side width in cabin that Primera, spacious all round. Might seem expensive but great value for money. Engines perform well with good fuel economy. Poorest handling of this bunch can be mitigated with higher than Toyota recommended pressures. Good safety and security. Everything a semi-executive car in this class should be (well, almost) unless you want to splash out on an A6.

Anyway, that's what I found while shopping, testing and deliberating. Don't forget the importance of the dealership. Good service counts for a lot.

[j1mbo]

Poorest handling of this bunch can be mitigated with higher than Toyota recommended pressures.

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Oh! I was hoping you would'nt say that!!

This is something that really worries me! I am really keen on the Avensis, I have not test driven it yet as I hate going near dealers cos they then start to pressure you like asking about your PX, finance etc... Also finding the time plus not saved enough yet! However I like to try and narrow it down as much as poss with reviews, opinions etcc. I want to keep my Mondeo handling, a tall order perhaps?

Ford dealers do suck and are very poor (at least round here, its all one company, no choice).

[Zz24hours]

Yeah, I think that aming for handling as a Mondeo is to much, considering that Accord and Mondeo are known to have superior handling in the class.

But! .. that is the conclusion in roadtests of standard cars with standard tyres and springs, which are often altered, right?

My Avensis handles just fine on its 225/40-18 tyres and 25mm TTE lowering springs B)

[Avensis wagon]

Poorest handling of this bunch can be mitigated with higher than Toyota recommended pressures.

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Oh! I was hoping you would'nt say that!!

This is something that really worries me! I am really keen on the Avensis, I have not test driven it yet as I hate going near dealers cos they then start to pressure you like asking about your PX, finance etc... Also finding the time plus not saved enough yet! However I like to try and narrow it down as much as poss with reviews, opinions etcc. I want to keep my Mondeo handling, a tall order perhaps?

Ford dealers do suck and are very poor (at least round here, its all one company, no choice).

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Don't wory so much. A dealer can try many things, but he can't make you sign on the dotted line. You have a lot to gain by being open, honest and friendly. It isn't actually war, it's simply that each of you wants the best price and has to find a the point where you meet.

When I set out to buy I had four or five options in mind. I read many reviews, some of which were conflicting, some of which went for facetious wordplay rather than objectivity, particularly when it was safer to do so with less well-known makes -- TopGear. However, I kept in mind what the reviews said and looked, listened and felt while driving.

I walked into each dealership and told them which cars I was considering. They know it's a competition and they know who their competitors are, and they also respect that if I'm spending 35,000 euros on a car I'm going to consider carefully and it's got to be right. I found that displaying some foreknowledge of each car's pros and cons showed the dealers that I genuinely interested.

Get in there, pick up the brochure and book a test drive from a sales person you like the look of. I test drove all cars twice on a variety of roads. That's my right whether a sale is made or not, with so much money at stake. The Mazda and Octavia were out quite quickly (BTW, neither operation had the smell of great service and the Skoda looked especially bad). I was quickly down to the Primera or Avensis. The dealerships were good and I even took the cars away overnight!

Although I really wanted the Avensis all along, the price of the Primera was calling and the Toyota dealer hadn't begun to reel me in with an offer I couldn't refuse, which I thought was odd as I was an existing new car customer from 4 years back. Once I was satisfied (after 4 drives) that the Avensis would handle the way I wanted for all that money (tyre pressures) it was ahead in everything but price. I got the Primera dealer to make his final offer and wasn't far from signing. I walked back to see my Toyota dealer and told him I was very sorry, I found him very professional, had been happy and would like to continue our relationship but that Mr Nissan had made too good an offer to turn down. And I meant it.

However, my honesty was returned and the dealer said he certainly wouldn't want to loose me as a customer and "we'll see aht we can do". A bit late, but it is after all his job to get the best sales price. I gave him Mr Primera's offer in writing (he was grateful for the sales intelligence!) so that we knew where we stood. By the time we finished he had offered more than Mr Nissan for my trade in and I had a 2 litre estate for the price of a 1.8 liftback with tow bar, CD changer and a few extras at net price, and a free first service etc. I also complained that the interest was also higher than Nissan's, and the dealer called his boss to get 1.5% knocked off. I explained that it seemed a little bit much that the car costs more and then the interest was higher.

The negotiation should be done over a week or more. The dealer will try to keep up the momentum to get you signed up quicky before you know it, but it's best to go away with his offer in writing and think a while and come back another day. You can say you need to dicuss it with your wife, if you have one. I found mine really handy and a good way to avoid conflict: e.g. "I'd like to but my wife is still worried about the price" or "I think that if it had the CD changer like the Primera she'd probably be convinced".

Things came to a natural happy conclusion when the time was right. I felt the dealer had finally pulled out all the stops and this time it was me who wanted to be fair and keep the momentum going. I called my wife from the showroom, told her how the deal stood and that the guy was looking for me to shake his hand and that I thought it was the fair thing to do. The process took over two weeks and everyone was happy. No accusation, no agression, no embarrassment. Just open, friendly and honest.

So, it does help to have another car in mind -- in your case perhaps the Mondeo.

I do find the Mondeo a little dated now, and I've never had a Ford since my MKIII Escort 20 years ago. When I said the Avensis probably had the worst handling of the bunch, I was mostly talking directional stability. The Primera actually had similar problems, and for the same reason of tyre pressures. It's perfectly curable. Use the recommended pressures and if it wanders, use the pressures recommended for high speeds or high loads. It won't hurt the tyres.

The suspension on the Avensis I found quite refined. Good on the motorway and country road. As they say, the Avensis doesn't exactly excel in anything, it's just pretty good at everything. And yes, the point at which the car comes off the road on a corner comes sooner than e.g. the Mazda (whose sporty suspension is also rather choppy), but you would still have to be driving somewhat like a maniac.

So, directional stabilty solved, suspension OK, that leaves the steering as far as handiling is concerned. Check out the difference between electronic and hydraulic PAS, (electronic on 1.6 and 1.8 petrol) see which suits you and the routes you drive.

Didn't mean to worry you -- the Avensis may not drive as well as some, but it certainly doesn't drive badly. The overall package was certainly enough to convince me.

[j1mbo]

Poorest handling of this bunch can be mitigated with higher than Toyota recommended pressures.

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So, directional stabilty solved, suspension OK, that leaves the steering as far as handiling is concerned. Check out the difference between electronic and hydraulic PAS, (electronic on 1.6 and 1.8 petrol) see which suits you and the routes you drive.

Didn't mean to worry you -- the Avensis may not drive as well as some, but it certainly doesn't drive badly. The overall package was certainly enough to convince me.

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Thanks for all the info, in fact thanks to >all< of you who have offered so much info and help. I really value what you have all said and will be keeping a recorded of it, maybe if I do get the Avensis I'll post a pic of it!

The reason I've gone off the Mondeo is the trouble with things like rusting which is affecting a huge number of owners. So I don't mind lossing a bit of handling if I'm gaining a quality stereo, rattle free trim and no rust! I have only ever driven a Vectra and, er, well that's say never again! It was a pre face lift model.

I still like the idea of a Mazda it terms of styling and handling but the nearest dealer is some way off. We will see .

Oh, did'nt know the 2L has pump power steering, I'd like the 2L anyway so goes the steering is more weighted and sharper perhaps?

Thanks again, hope you all have a good weekend!!

James B)

[Dane]

Dont worry about rust mate, you wont see any for donkeys years, if then.

[Avensis wagon]

I still like the idea of a Mazda it terms of styling and handling but the nearest dealer is some way off. We will see .

Oh, did'nt know the 2L has pump power steering, I'd like the 2L anyway so goes the steering is more weighted and sharper perhaps?

Thanks again, hope you all have a good weekend!!

James B)

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The idea of the electronic steering is that it doesn't sap the power of the smaller engines. It's incredibly light, which makes it good around town and for parking.

Then again the 2 litre is nice around town for a different reason -- that you don't have to wait for it to pick up at low speed and from standstill, particularly on corners.

What I didn't like about the electronic PAS, bearing in mind that I was looking for a car that would let me relax on longer journeys, is that its lightness and rather small dead zone at the centre made continual driver adjustment necessary, which can take it out of you on a long drive, mentally speaking.

The pump PAS is much heavier -- in fact if you get out of the 1.8 and straight into the 2 litre, it feels like it doesn't have PAS at all! This can be a shock, but if you get out of your Mondeo and into the 2 litre Avensis, I'd doubt that it would feel heavy.

Anyway, weightier yes, sharper no. Perhaps slightly sharper than the Octavia I tested. I'd call it firm, logical and reassuring but, like the Avensis, not paricularly sporty. Start test driving and see what you think.

As for the Mazda6, there are probably all kinds of offers with a new model coming in autumn. But this will devalue the current model quickly. I'm told the new model will be quieter, and I dare say the equipment level will be better since it's a bit behind at the mo. Whereas the Avensis is wonderfully cosetting, the Mazda made me feel quite vunerable and exposed with all the wind noise, road noise, engine noise and tinny bangs every time a stone went around the wheel arch. And the suspension really is choppy on a bumpy road.

But certainly have a look -- it will at the least help you in your negotiations. The Mazda is certainly a good looking car outside and I loved the almost 70s retro controls in the centre. Cruise control works well and I love the way the rear seats fold down and tuck in all by themselves at the touch of a button, not that with a trailer I needed that very often. However, I found the noise levels, general lack of interior refinement and the suspension unacceptable for a family car, and I've bought a pre-facelift model before, only to regret it later. A new car is supposed to be new, not 'the old model' three months later.

One way to look at it is sexy versus refined. Married eight years, two toddlers and 36 years old, my life isn't particularly sexy, which perhaps explains the Avensis... But we all have to grow up and beyond the Corvette, leather jacket and sunglasses to avoid a doomed existence as Jeremy Clarkson. :o

[Tawse57]

My two cents:

1. Consider a 12 month old Toyota approved Avensis as there seems to be vast number of immaculate ones available on forecourts for about 12K.

I would not buy new in this market as the Avensis, as are all large family cars - because people are buying less of them, loses an awful lot of cash in the first 12 months.

2. Shame the diesel does not come with an auto box.

[Dane]

2. Shame the diesel does not come with an auto box.

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Toyota would be on a winner if they did.

[Tawse57]

This is where both Honda and Toyota fall down in the UK market - they have autos and they have diesels but not auto diesels in the Avensis, Accord, CR-V, Rava(?) models.