Air Con

[Carlgolsby]

Anyone know how much it is to get air-conditioning re-gassed? mine is just about dead, the fans and everything work okay but it just doesn't get cold like a-c should, I've been putting off getting it done untill now – its getting unbearable :(

does it vary from car to car and what would be a good price?

[97paseo]

Is it right that you have to switch the A/C on every month or so for a bit to keep it working - even in winter?

[+Steve]

about £60 mate

40 where i get it.. buts thats another story

[Carlgolsby]

Cheers Steve, do you know what kind of gas they use coz I've been told its illegal to sell the original Sera gas and the new stuff is not compatible :(

[TheNissanMan]

Cheers Steve, do you know what kind of gas they use coz I've been told its illegal to sell the original Sera gas and the new stuff is not compatible :(

The little greenhouse getting a bit harsh in summer....

Hope you get it sorted doon mate...

[Carlgolsby]

After my holiday I found out what air con should be like and now I'm back I've got to get it sorted or I may melt!

[+Steve]

some companies sometimes have the old gas still.. but prepare to pay alot of ot.. £100

their is a new replacement for the old gas... I have it in mine as mine took the old gas... i find the replacement gas is better and expands more and lasts pretty well.

apparently i have the coldest aircon he has ever felt.

[toyotasera.co.uk]

R12 banned

R134A is the replacement - but for it to remain in the system you need to change all the seals, or the smaller R12 molecules will leak out fast.

There is a "drop-in" gas which is not an automotive refrigerant, and its use in cars is often not recommended because it contains a flammable gas such as Butane.

See www.autoair.co.uk for more information.

AutoAir R12

If your vehicle was built before 1994, it may use a refrigerant called

R12, which has now been banned.

All the developed countries got together and decided that R12

refrigerant, trade name Freon, damaged the ozone layer. Plans were put

in place to stop the production of this gas, then to phase out its use

completely. During 1993, the motor manufacturers moved over to a new

product, R134a, for cars supplied to the UK. It's worth pointing out at

this stage, that Japan did not do this until later on, therefore a 1995

import may still be running R12. As of 31/12/2000, the use of R12 for

the service or repair of a/c systems was made illegal. This means that

anyone with an R12 system has only two options should they need the

system to be recharged. Please bear in mind, that if your system has no

gas in it, it probably has a leak as well, so this needs to be taken

into account with the following information. Our comments are underneath

in red.

Option 1:

Some refrigerant manufacturers are selling 'drop-in' replacements. These

are marketed as direct replacements for R12, with no component changes

required. Cost of the refrigerant is normally higher than R134a.

No manufacturer recommends this approach as there are doubts about

compressor life and filter/drier compatibility.

Option 2:

Convert the system to use the later R134a refrigerant.

Manufacturers recommend this approach if carried out according to their

instructions.

Which one does AutoAir recommend?

Only option 2, and here's why:-

This is what the motor manufacturers recommend. Also, our own

observations are as follows:

The two types of system use fundamentally different lubricants, and the

(new) R134a refrigerant and (old) R12 lubricant will not mix. R134a will

sludge oil used in R12 systems. R134a can also destroy the desiccant

used in old R12 filter/driers. Therefore, just putting R134a in an R12

system will result in poor lubrication of the compressor as it won't

carry the old oil. The filter/drier can also disintegrate and circulate

around the system, causing blockages and increased wear. Therefore, a

proper conversion means removing as much of the old oil, adding a new

R134a compatible oil, replacement of the filter/drier with an R134a

compatible one, changing the service ports to R134a versions, and

clearly marking the vehicle to inform any future a/c techs what has

happened. The quantity of refrigerant used is also different, and this

should also be clearly marked. However, this process comes with no

guarantees, for the following reasons:- R134a and its lubricants may not

provide sufficient lubrication for a compressor designed to run with

R12. Also, R134a has a smaller molecular size, therefore leaks are more

likely. The system also has to work harder, therefore pressures are

higher, and consequently, strain on the compressor is also higher. As

the compressor is already at least 8 years old, the extra work may push

it over the edge. Add to this the cost of repairing the leak that caused

the loss of the original gas, and it may be prohibitive. Obviously, if a

new compressor is being fitted, and by default, a new filter/drier, then

most of these possible problems will be negated.

Why not use 'drop-in' replacements?

Because the largest part of the blend used in 'drop-in' replacements is

actually R134a, then the same problems may also occur. The other part of

the blend is usually something to carry the old R12 oil. Typically this

is something like propane or butane. But what happens to the R134a

sludging the old oil? Who knows. And what about the filter/drier

compatibility with the R134a part of the new gas? Who knows. Other

problems that can occur, are the fact that you are tied to that

particular a/c tech as he may be the only person in the area using that

gas, does the blend fractionate into it's separate components, is it

flammable, and so on. Basically, there are too many questions unanswered

for our liking, again with no guarantees at the end of it. So we will

only carry out proper, approved, conversions to give our customers that

greatest chance of success.

How do I know what refrigerant is used in my system?

Take a look under the bonnet for any stickers saying R12, Freon, or

R134a. As a rule of thumb, most R134a vehicles will be marked as such,

whereas R12 systems quite often have nothing.

If no sticker, then you need to check the service ports for the system.

Look for the a/c pipes and hoses. There is usually a large and small,

alloy or rubber hose that come out from the bulkhead, compressor, and

condenser. Somewhere along these will be the service ports, usually one

on the larger hose/pipe, and one on the smaller hose/pipe. They will

have a cap on them like a large tyre valve cap. If you unscrew this and

the service port has an external thread, then it is R12. If no external

thread, then it is R134a. This is not definitive, but is usually a

fairly reliable indicator. If in doubt, contact

<http://www.autoair.co.uk/contact.htm> us.

[+Steve]

R12 i managed to get LOL

but the replacement gas was better than the R12.. i did not have my seals replaced

[kaz]

The A/C on my Yaris T Sport doesn't seem to get that cold. I've been in other cars with A/C and they freeze you mine doesn't. It's the first time it's been used the car is only just a year old. does your yaris ts get very cold or just cold?

Kaz

[Steve Ratcliffe]

Depends - the other day i was driving home from holiday, it was 30 degrees outside, i had the temp setting on coldest, the fan setting on 1 and the AC on - this brought the tempreature down so it was cool inside, the higher the fan setting the colder it got but setting 2 was too cold.

Aircon works on heat exchange so it will perform differently depending on the internal and external tempreatures.

Steve.

[TheNissanMan]

The A/C on my Yaris T Sport doesn't seem to get that cold. I've been in other cars with A/C and they freeze you mine doesn't. It's the first time it's been used the car is only just a year old. does your yaris ts get very cold or just cold?

Kaz

If the A/C hasn't even been switched on in a year it may be worth getting the gas checked....