Most Sutiable Oil For 4efte Gt Engine

[Toby]

Hi all.

Can anyone recommend the best oil for my car. Live in england. 4efte, 55,000 miles.

I've heard i shouldn't use fully synthetic as its to thin. Can anyone really advise me on the best. Just replaced with Castrol 10w 40 gtx magnetec and it was a bit smokey.

Whats best out of:

10w 40 semi synthetic

15w 50 semi,

10w 69 fully synthetic.

Anyone actually know?? And could the oil change casue smoke??? It was ok before.

thanks t

[starletsr]

I used 10w 40 Mobil 1. No problems so far toby.

[buesun]

japanese use 5W/30, but u can only find 10W/30 in UK

better to used 10W/30 oil,

10W/40, 15W40, 20W/50 will make noise tapper

[starletsr]

japanese use 5W/30, but u can only find 10W/30 in UK

better to used 10W/30 oil,

10W/40, 15W40, 20W/50 will make noise tapper

←

tapping?! seriously?! that's where iam going wrong

But to be honest i dunno if it really is the oil

[nrgizerbunny]

the tappets on some cars are hydraulic so fed by oil pressure. if you use the wrong type of oil the noise gets tappy.

0w30 is available - Castrol slx 0w30 is better than 5w30 so you could use that.

when considering oil, the first number is the low temp number. The lower this is the better as it will get round your engine quick and lubricate it better when most of the wear occurs.

the second number is the hot temperature viscosity. You have to make sure this is appropriate for your car, if you use too thin oil you'll have insufficient film on the bearings and you get increased wear. :(

put too higher viscosity oil in the car and you get the problem of dodgy tappets.

basically in terms of oil performance, the best is:

1. 0w40

2. 5w40

3. 10w40

4. 15w40

At high temperatures the thickness of all the above are the same. I wouldn't use 0w30 (too thin) and 15w50 (too thick) unless its mentioned in the manual.

shelly, as far as i know Mobil 1 in the UK comes in 0w40 only.

[dac69er]

the recommended oil is 10w-30. its on a sticker on the underneath of my bonnet. i use 10w-40 though as thats easier to get hold of and thats what the toyota dealer recommended that i use.

[nrgizerbunny]

Dac69er,

I think the toyota dealer has pulled a fast one. he probably can't get hold of 10w30 so just told you to use 10w40. As mentioned earlier the first number is only the room temperature viscosity, when your caining it, the bearings will have excess film coverage if you are using w40.

Might be worth asking on GTturbo.com. But using a logical thought process i'd say 0w30 oil was the way to go.

[riko666]

0w30 for a 5efe too?

[buesun]

japanese use 5W/30, but u can only find 10W/30 in UK

better to used 10W/30 oil,

10W/40, 15W40, 20W/50 will make noise tapper

←

tapping?! seriously?! that's where iam going wrong

But to be honest i dunno if it really is the oil

←

yes really,

because vehicle been using different grade of oil in japan,

so need to be use the grade above or very saimler oil,

frush the old oil out and try to use 10W30 oil,

so far i did it on starlet turbo, camry, colt, lancer, and noise reduce

but the lancer was in uk 4 year after my friend bought it,

need to change oil three time, then noise start reduce, and we keep change oil every 3000m

[nrgizerbunny]

0w30 for a 5efe too?

←

dunno have a look in the manual. when you go to buy oil just make sure the last numbers match. the lower the first number the better.

[riko666]

aite cool, i belive its 10w30 or 10w40 in the booklet...im gonna be changing oil soon as its starting to drink some....yay, my first actual "strenuous" tinkering with the car, im so cool

[dac69er]

i thought the lower the number the thicker the oil viscosity?

therefore 10 would be thinner than 0.

that means that if i get 10w-40 oil as apposed to 10w-30 then the 10 is correct (which is the oil viscosity when cold) and the 40 will be a bit thinner when hot than 30.

nearly all uk spec performance toyotas are recommended to have 10w-40 used in them.

i would have used 10w-30 but i wanted to change the oil as i didnt know when it was last done and couldnt get any 10-w30 when i needed to.

correct me if im wrong!

[nrgizerbunny]

10 is definitely not thinner than 0. :D, Mobil 1 is 0w and that is like water.

at higher temps the same thing applies so 30 is thinner than 40 and then 50. If you're using 10w40 the bearing film will be too thick so it causes more friction in the drivetrain so reduced power output - which i assume is what you care about :D

Oh and while i think about it, if you are really after 10w30. go along to your local garden centre/ B and q and they sell 10w30 for lawnmowers as this is what they use - i should know i used to work in one but i couldn't remember where i'd seen it before!

[Toby]

So are we talking semi or fully synthetic. I have raised this dispute on the gtturbo website and again there is mixed views.

I have at the mo 10 w 40 semi.

Are you suggesting I change too 10w 30 as that is what they used in Japan.

Doesn't the different cliamate affect this?

Surely 10w 40 would be better for higher engine temperatures?

Read this:

If the engine that you are using has had a semi synthetic oil through out its life. Then by putting in a fully synthetic oil you can do more damage than good. A fully synthetic oil will loosen carbon deposits in the engine. These carbon deposits are extremly hard and will cause a lot of abrasive wear to the engine. From parts such as piston rings with a high degree of hardness to valves cams turbo internals etc. This is the main reason for not using a fully synthetic oil in an old engine.

The lubrication properties of fully synthetic oils can be far superior to that of semi or mineral oils.Some people think that by spending out the extra on these expensive oils that they will last longer. They Dont!.

The primary functions of a oil are to Lubricate, Displace heat, And to wash wear particles into the sump. getting as much as possible trapped in the filter.

The oils properties will eventually break down, and if left for too long they will start to burn. This is due to the contamination processes (Bi- products from cobustion) in the engine diluting the oil. A 10w 40 oil will gradually loose some of its viscosity and become 10w35--10w30 and so on. with high pressure loading between engine components the oil will be driven out and you will have a high friction rate (metal to metal contact with very little lubrication).

As we all know Frequent oil changes are a must to prolong the life of an engine especially a turbo charged one.

If running an old engine stick with the type of oil that you have used before (providing its of good quality u wont do yourself any favors by skimping on cheap oil)

[nrgizerbunny]

Hi toby,

some of the stuff on there i agree with:

1. oil main job is to lubricate, dissipate heat and wash wear particles to the filter - i agree with this.

2. don't agree with the broad statement that suggests that fully synthetic oils will loosen carbon deposits. which cause excessive wear to the engine, this is not neccessarily tripe but i think it has been overexaggerated, flush will get rid of the deposits :(

3. oil properties will eventually break down is true, but its *unlikely* you'll get metal to metal contact unless you change your oil every 30k. the w40 becoming w35 and then w30 - never heard that type of explanation before but its kind of correct, the bearing film gets thinner as the oil gets older so you get more friction. :(

4. what i really don't agree with is the bit about changing your oil will have a bad efffect. This is not true in my opinion. if you flush your engine to remove all the crap. then apply some fresh thinner oil you'll get better performance, the only downside to this is you may get a slight increase in oil consumption for the first 5k, as the carbon deposts have to rebuild.

I don't like to blow my own trumpet but I used to work at rolls royce on the EJ200 engine, the engine that is in eurofighter and to be honest i think i know a bit more than the average guy on the street. mainly because i had to deal with problems that people on the gtturbo forum don't have to deal with. Namely engine temperatures around 1500C, 14g turns (so the oil weighs 14 times it does usually) and the odd pilot flying upside down for prolonged periods of time, hence no oil in the pump! (whist doing mach 2)

dunno who posted that but i can recommend a good book on tribology for them to read if necessary :D

as for your other questions, the oil is dependent on climate, in scandinavia you will typically see people using 0w oils because they have harsh winters.

the other number, the "hot" number is dependent on the types of bearings the manufacturer uses not the engine temperature. Most engines run somewhere around 90C, which is near as makes no difference the oil temperature.

The amount of load a bearing can carry is a function of the oil viscosity. basically if you use a thicker oil (e.g. w40) then you can get away with a smaller bearing size. if you use a thinner oil you need a bigger bearing to take the same load. thats a simplificiation! :D

In all honesty the difference between w30 and w40 is small, so i doubt you would notice a difference, but toyota state 10w30 for a reason, and i would be inclined to try and obtain it if possible - if not 0w30 is fine too.

[riko666]

and the best compromise is??? :P

i was thinking of flushing out the engine too....is it a bad idea? thing is ive been getting some white gunk under the oil cap occasionally and some people said it could be coolant leak into oil which could signify a blow head gasket, or it could just be moisture...so i just wanted to flush the whole thing out...

[nrgizerbunny]

check the coolant to see if you have oil contamination, that will tell you if you have a blown head gasket.

best oil is the one that is recommended in your manual with a 0w in front of it. ie if you rmanual says 10w30, best oil is 0w30 - as it gives you the protection at low temperatures which the 10w30 oil doesn't. :D

[Toby]

fully or semi synthetic?

What do you use bro?

Thanks T

[riko666]

well ive been told to check if the coolants cloudy, but it aint really...meh, i want to swap in a 5efhe soon anyway so itd be a good excuse if it is a blow gasket

btw, do you think i should use engine flush on a 64,000mi car?

[nrgizerbunny]

Toby,

below 10w, all oils are fully synthetic - well i've yet to see a semi-synthetic thats less than 10w.

starlet gets Mobil 1 0w40 (10w40 stated in manual) every 6000miles/1 year, in summer there is little difference between the oils but in winter the car heats up a lot faster and it starts on the first crank of the starter motor.

riko,

if your coolant is okay i think its because the car has been driven for short periods of time not allowing the water vapour in the engine to evaporate. when this happens the water emulsifies with the oil and produces whitish brownish mayonaise type gunk.

There are two schools of thought as to whether you should flush your engine or not. I brought this topic up in general discussions and some people suggested i didn't as the car was a corsa with 133k on it, but exhibited some similar problems to you, ie white gunk.

Anyway i flushed it and now the car runs sweet, it'll take a couple more oil changes to get all the gunk out but its certainly a lot quieter.

hope this helps

[dac69er]

you learn something new every day. im still not 100% on oils but it seems like 10w-40 is ok but 10w-30 would be better.

for the winter months i guess its better to have 0w-30 in it then?

i think ill try and get hold of some after i do my next change to 10w-40.

i guess another reason why the 10w is used as apposed to 0w is that back in 1991 synthetic oil wasnt used on the majority of engines whereas now its becoming alot more common.

[riko666]

yeah, ive read up on the issue of flushing out old engines...something about the carbon deposits plugging possible leaks etc...cool, ill be getting 0w30 (though my engine starts great even on 10w30 in the harsh ***** winter we got this year!) oil and flushing the engine out then....just need ramps and the bother :(

[Toby]

Right, so many people suggest different things.

I think im gonna go for 5w 30 as this is what they were supposed to run on.

Im worried about putting fully synthetic in as i have run the car on semi for 4,000 miles now.

If i go for a fully synthetic 5w 30, could it loosen carbon deposits (which cause a lot of wear), as its not been used all along the life of the engine.

Wouldn't it be best to stick with 10w 40 or change to 5w 30. I just dont want the 5w 30 to be to thin and seep into the stems.

Also, that point about the quality of oils in 1991 is a good one. Did they have fully synthetic back then??

Thanks all, Tobs

[nrgizerbunny]

da69er,

yes you are quite right, in the early 90's the best oil you could get mainstream was 10w40 and most cars used 15w40. 0w has been round since about 97 if i remember correctly. :D

toby,

it doesn't matter if its fully synthetic or semi-synthetic, the only thing that matters is the viscsoity.

that stuff about loosening carbon deposits is a totally exaggerated, flush and then refil with oil and you'll be fine.

You really are worrying about nothing. but bare in mind as you have a turbo you'll benefit from 0w oil more than a NA car. If i could point you in the direction of a good book. not sure if you have a local library about but "introducing internal combustion engines" by richard stone is well worth a read! - let us know how you get on.

Riko,

Your bog standard jack and a couple of breeze blocks under the wheels will suffice!

[oilman]

There are too many myths associated with synthetic oils so lets clear a few up for those that want to learn.

What are Synthetic Oils?

Synthetic Oils are fuel efficient, more fluid and resistant to thermal breakdown, they are constructed in laboratories using basestocks and special additive packages. They are specially formulated to meet and perform to standards set by API and ACEA as required by OEM’s.

Synthetic motor oils damage seals.

This is untrue. Why would lubricant manufacturers build products that are

incompatible with seals. The composition of seals present problems that all types of oils must overcome.

At the end of the day, it is the additive pack in the oil that counts. Additives are added control the swelling, shrinking and hardening of seals.

Synthetics are too thin.

This is untrue. In order for an oil to be classified in any SAE grade (0W-40, 5w-40,10W-40 etc) it has to meet guidelines with regard to viscosity or thickness.

For example, any oil with a viscosity of 10W-40 has to operate at -25 degrees centigrade and 100 degrees centigrade to pass these tests or it cannot be rated as a 10W-40.

Synthetics mean higher oil usage.

This is untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended for use in mechanically sound engines, that don't leak oil. In these engines oil consumption will actually be lower because of the lower volatility of Synthetics. They also have better sealing capabilities between piston rings and cylinder walls. Synthetics also have better oxidation stability. (They resist reacting with oxygen at high temperatures)

Synthetic Oils are not compatible with other oils.

This is untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials from high quality basestocks are fully compatible with other oils.

It is best to stick to the same oil for topping up that you have in the engine. It is best not to mix oils, as additives are blended for specific oils. When different oils are mixed additive pack balances can be upset so for the best performance, it’s better not to mix them.

Synthetic Oils produce sludge.

This is untrue. It is a fact that they are more sludge resistant than other oils as they are better at resisting high temperatures and oxidation. Because Synthetic oils have higher flash points, they withstand evaporation better leaving less deposits.

Synthetic oils can't be used with catalytic converters.

This is untrue. There is no difference between synthetic and other oils with regards to the components. Neither will damage catalytic converters.

Synthetic oils can void warranties.

This is untrue. No major manufacturers specifically ban the use of synthetic

oils. More and more new performance cars are factory filled with Synthetic oils.

Vehicle warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service

Classifications and recommended viscosities.

Synthetic oils will last forever.

This is untrue. There are some people that believe that synthetic basestocks themselves can be used forever. However, it is a well known fact that eventually the additives will break down and cause the oil to degrade. The additives in the oil are effectively “used up” by moisture, fuel dilution and acids. Regularly topping up the oil will help but sensible oil change periods are recommended.

Synthetic oils will protect an engine for far longer periods than non-synthetics.

Synthetic oils are too expensive.

This is untrue. It has been proven through testing that Synthetic oils do have longer drain periods and provide better fuel economy. Add this to reduced engine wear and better reliability then do the maths. They are in reality better value for money than other oils.

Cheers

Simon