May 2005 Prius - The New Revision Models

[poslcda]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forums and thought I'd use the opportunity to ask a question or two.

I've just ordered a Prius T3 (paid £16,245 - £1300 discount from drivethedeal.com matched by Toyota Swinton :-) Ordered it Friday 13th, due for delivery in just over a week's time (not complaining, but I thought Prius's were in short supply?)

My main concern is that the Prius will definitely be one of the 'new, improved' models announced last month:

"...revised models on sale next month. These have received increased body rigidity and modified springs and dampers...Noise and vibration levels have been reduced by the fitment of a new laminated windscreen with special noise-absorbing film between the layers of glass, and improves insulation around the dashboard...."

qoute from: http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-sto...161&ref=archive

My dealer assures me that all May '05 orders are this new stock. It's a big deal for me, as anything that reduces road noise (a big problem with my old polo tdi) is a major buying point for me.

Is there any obvious, proveable way I will be able to tell it's the new model? Has anyone else taken delivery this month (May '05) of a new Prius - can they confirm the handling/noise improvements?

Any comments gratefully recieved.

Also, any tips for a newbie?

Here's to a completely new driving experience!

Thanks,

guy.

[Tawse57]

That's sounds a good price - I did not think that drivethedeal sold the Prius but, boy, as it is coming from your local dealer you got a good price there.

I think personally, although others might disagree, that the shortage of the Prius is coming to an end. I have started to see adverts in all sorts of media now, especially tabloids, for the first time and this is usualyl a sign that the early adopter market has fallen off and that a manufacturer is now targeting the mainstream market.

I think this will result not just in quicker delivery times for the Prius but also in much reduced prices. The Prius is or should be, effectively, in the Corolla price range and is really competing againsts the Ford Focuses, Corollas, Mazda 6s maybe, etc, of this World.

The Prius has been around for a while now and there is no reason why Toyota cannot be producing them in much bigger numbers. Several car articles also comment that the additional initial expense of buying a Prius, at current prices, is not balanced out by the savings you make in fuel nor, surprisingly, is the manufacturer of one more 'green' than any other car.

I expect to see price drops before the end of the year and, as the new car market is in BIG trouble, most likely a 0% deal coupled with several K off the current prices.

However, I think you have got a superb deal on one currently and wish you every happiness with it.

[Braindead]

If you've just got a Prius, try working your way through the posts in this forum. All sorts of useful stuff. Most of the stuff a newbie needs to know has already been said here somewhere.

You'll love it! Great car. It's just the dealers that let the side down

[Braindead]

I think personally, although others might disagree, that the shortage of the Prius is coming to an end. I have started to see adverts in all sorts of media now, especially tabloids, for the first time and this is usualyl a sign that the early adopter market has fallen off and that a manufacturer is now targeting the mainstream market.

←

Put me down as a "disagree". If you look at the global market, they're still waiting up to six months in the US and used cars are selling at a premium over new ones in Texas. This usually happens when supply is less than demand.

So, why cut the price of a Prius in the UK when there are Yanks fighting to get one? Just build more cars to send to the US and shorten supply in the UK.

On the other hand, there may be a marketing message here. Perhaps Toyota are keen to show "green credentials" in the UK and are not overly worried about actual sales volumes. Who knows? Darned sure I don't :D

[poslcda]

Thanks for your replies - re. the price yeah, I was suprised to get a 'good' deal actually, as I coudn't initially find a dealer with one in stock, and reading various lists, I'd mentally prepared myself for 6 month waiting lists etc.

After I signed the paperwork, I noticed that drivethedeal.com now offers the T3 for c. £15,950 - a few hundered quid lower than the week or so before (early May) and are offering even more off the t4/t5 - dealers will have to price match these, as I asked, surely? Btw, I'm nothing to do with the site - just was the only discount website that actually sold prius.

I had to work hard to buy one though - Toyota Preston were the 4th Toyota dealer I called - none of the others I tried had a demonstrator available - it does seem they sell every model that makes it to a showroom - certainly, I can't see a casual customer coming across the prius and checking it out as there are never any on show.

re Prius in the USA- I've just come back from New York, and with my new Prius perspective and knowledge, looked around the traffic, expecting a sea of prius, but I just saw a sea of SUVs (3 prius in total in 3 days) amongst the taxis. Also, I noticed that car buying is a *lot* cheaper over there - not just prices (which are significantly cheaper) but the fairly norm of ~3% financing etc.

I'm really looking forward to the Prius, but initially I thought the car was c. 3k too expensive from a purely like-for-like comparison (I was looking at diesel golfs, audi a3's etc.).

Ultimately, it was a desire for new + green technology, with a realisation of vast cabin space, toyota reliability/quality...once I got past all that, I realised the car is actually pretty good value for money (in the UK market) with all the tech, aircon, safety features etc.

Everyone I know (apart from my girlfriend who has driven the demonstrator) thinks I'm crazy - I can't wait to completely confound their prejudices :-)

cheers,

guy.

[Tawse57]

I specced the mid-range T4 today, added metalic paint and they quoted me 1694.52 - a saving apparently of 1724.48

I agree about the 3K too expensive. In fact, I think it is more like 4 or 5K too expensive and certainly needs to come down to the Corolla/Golf/Focus price range otherwise it will remain a niche market.

I wonder what the US Prius price is?

[Tawse57]

Ah, about 20,000 USD in the States which just goes to show how over-priced it is here in the UK IMPO.

[poslcda]

Ah, about 20,000 USD in the States which just goes to show how over-priced it is here in the UK IMPO.

←

Yes, but not as immediatly bad as I thought, as the baseline $20k USA prius doesn't have any of the 'extra' features that come as standard even on the T3 in the UK - curtain airbags, electronic stability control etc. Closest I can get to a t3 spec is c. $25,000, which adding 17.5% for vat, comes in at an equivalent price of £15,500, a £2,000 'discount' which isn't so bad...although in the states, they'll have huge production volumes compared to UK - plus all !Removed! cars (and everything else, come to it :-) are cheaper. I've read that US Prius are selling for several hundred bucks over their dealer price, and so with web-dealer price matches, looks like we're spending about £1k to be able to sit on the right :-)

Changing subjects a bit - I think the biggest problem for Prius take-up in UK/Europe is of course diesel - I was really suprised to find out from a friend that diesel cars are almost non-existant in many parts of the US (and banned in California, because of c02 output, I think). Prius' in the USA must look fantastic compared to normalpetrol car's mpg, with no diesel golfs etc. to compare against.

Still, I've accepted I'm paying extra for the technology, and much more environment-friendly output compared to a diesel - I'm hoping the infamous Toyota quality means that this will be my car for at least the next 6 years or so...

Btw, I'm having terrible buyer's remorse about the t3 and I haven't even taken delivery yet! - is the t4 worth the £800 premium? Fog lights I don't care about, but how better do you lot think the 9 speaker stereo is - logic would say jbl brand + 3 extra Speakers would be better?

My main source of angst is the lack of a cruise control feature - I've read that people find cruise control helpful for fuel economy. I've never driven a car with cruise control, how realistic is it to use on UK motorways?

cheers,

guy.

[Tawse57]

Personally, I would go with the T4 for cruise control. Cruise control and an automatic is, IMPO, not only a delight in UK traffic but is one of the main reasons to buy into the Prius concept. You will really notice it come into its own on long motorway journeys.

I think, IMPO, the extra £800 is well worth it. I suppose it is not too late to change for the T4? My understanding of drivethedeal is that you can reject the car upon delivery for whatever reason so why not ring them up and change? I suggest you get hold of Whatcar and read their Prius article - July edition already out - for their view on what version to buy and what extras are worth it.

[Tawse57]

By the way - how are you getting the Government £700 grant off the cost of a Prius via your drivethedeal buy? Are they doing this for you?

[poslcda]

By the way - how are you getting the Government £700 grant off the cost of a Prius via your drivethedeal buy? Are they doing this for you?

←

I'm buying directly from a Toyota dealer (Swinton, near Manchester) - they matched drivethedeal's price (apparantly drivethedeal source from dealer network anyway) - although drivethedeal is ~£300 cheaper again this month, than when I got the qoute.

The £700 grants aren't available as far as I know - the http://www.transportenergy.org.uk/index.cfm#announcement site says they're waiting for EU 'normalisation' - I've contacted the grants people and they stated none were available until this issue has been sorted - anyone's guess how long that will take, plus the grants aren't retrospectively awarded, so I have no chance of claiming unless they appear in the next few days :-(

I'm going to see if I can change my order to a t4 - but delivery is in 3 days time, so I think I may have left it too late...not that much of a problem of course, I'll let you know how I get on.

UPDATE: whoa - the car is already at the dealers, so no changing my mind to a t4 now...oh well, I'll just have to imagine what cruise control is like :-) On the plus side, that's about a week from order to dealer delivery, so that's pretty good...

cheers,

guy.

[Tawse57]

This is my two cents but... as far as I know, although I am no legal expert, you do not have to accept the car until you decide to accept it at the dealership and you sign the final paper work.

Seriously, if you have a hankering for a T4 or doubt re a T4 over a T3 simply tell the dealer you no longer want the T3 and tell them to get you a T4 - I imagine they will be happy to do so as, so I believe, you are well within your rights.

However, if the T3 is for you then ENJOY! :D

I would have thought the dealership would have sorted out the grant for you? Certainly, if the grant is no longer available then this is another reason why Toyota needs to reduce the price of the Prius in the UK.

[Tawse57]

On the plus side, that's about a week from order to dealer delivery, so that's pretty good...

Compared to the several months that people were waiting then I am amazed - this says an awful lot about Prius sales in the UK IMPO. I have not read about Toyota upping production of the Prius but, of course, they may well have.

[poslcda]

Thanks for the advice re. the ability to effectively cancel the order, but to be honest, it's ready to be picked up (going to look at it tonight), the paperwork has been signed (deposits, finance etc.) and so I'm not that concerned - main thing is I'll be driving one in the next few days - yay! I'll spend the 'difference' on an ipod integration kit, tomtom satnav and plastic sidebumpers (I have a very tight driveway). That will comfort me when I can't drive with cruise control enabled :-)

re. the grant - yes, the £700 would have taken the sting out of the tail, but at £16,000 (if they're price matching the current websites), I personally think it's a good car in comparison to the equivalent golf etc. But UK consumer perception of toyota's don't seem to be as high as in the US, based on UK resale prices of toyota?

Out of interest (god, I'm turning into a prius geek!) I looked at France (the only language I can begin to suss out) and they're paying c. £17k, without tax I think...so we may even a be a little better off than mainland EU.

I'll ask about production availability tonight - and of course, the original purpose of my post here was to see if anyone's taken delivery of one of the new 'improved' prius - allegedly all cars ordered in May '05 are the new revision, which include the model I bought - I'll be the guineapig I guess :-)

Btw, I'm presuming all prius are manufactured in Japan - or are they assembled from Japanese parts in UK factory? The info I'm getting is that the May 05 revisions are uk/eu only...we have different suspension tastes compared to americans, apparantly.

[Tawse57]

What do you mean by 'plastic sidebumpers'? I ask as one of the things I do not like about the Prius or the Avensis is the huge expanse of door panels without any protection strips - too easy to ding in car parks and with shopping trolleys IMPO? Is this what you mean and, if so, is this a Toyota extra you can add or something you are getting from elsewhere?

Btw, I'm presuming all prius are manufactured in Japan - or are they assembled from Japanese parts in UK factory? The info I'm getting is that the May 05 revisions are uk/eu only...we have different suspension tastes compared to americans, apparantly

I think they are all made in Japan. Alot of car makers are now changing their suspension for UK roads because UK roads are so lousey. Several of the better car review sites now will not rate a car until they have tried it on the UK roads instead of, as they are so often allowed, testing cars on smooth Italian, German or French roads. Honestjohn is a good example of this.

[poslcda]

What do you mean by 'plastic sidebumpers'? I ask as one of the things I do not like about the Prius or the Avensis is the huge expanse of door panels without any protection strips - too easy to ding in car parks and with shopping trolleys IMPO? Is this what you mean and, if so, is this a Toyota extra you can add or something you are getting from elsewhere?

They're an option they fit at the dealers - on my invoice it says "side mouldings, corner protectors" i think it's about £100 for the lot - definitely a prius option, they're in the brochure - they're black plastic strips on the front and rear corners and on each side - car park protection from other doors, basically. Only colour is black...but they look ok on the silver model in the brochure (and will be unoticeable on my black car)

They're adding them at the dealers - I'm sure they can be retrofitted if you already have a prius...

[Tawse57]

Thanks

[ronnie]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forums and thought I'd use the opportunity to ask a question or two.

I've just ordered a Prius T3 (paid £16,245 - £1300 discount from drivethedeal.com matched by Toyota Swinton :-) Ordered it Friday 13th, due for delivery in just over a week's time (not complaining, but I thought Prius's were in short supply?)

My main concern is that the Prius will definitely be one of the 'new, improved' models announced last month:

"...revised models on sale next month. These have received increased body rigidity and modified springs and dampers...Noise and vibration levels have been reduced by the fitment of a new laminated windscreen with special noise-absorbing film between the layers of glass, and improves insulation around the dashboard...." 

qoute from: http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-sto...161&ref=archive

My dealer assures me that all May '05 orders are this new stock. It's a big deal for me, as anything that reduces road noise (a big problem with my old polo tdi) is a major buying point for me.

Is there any obvious, proveable way I will be able to tell it's the new model? Has anyone else taken delivery this month (May '05) of a new Prius - can they confirm the handling/noise improvements?

Any comments gratefully recieved.

Also, any tips for a newbie?

Here's to a completely new driving experience!

Thanks,

guy.

←

Hi, I have just got a demonstator prius? What is the difference between the new models and a pre may 05 model?

Thanks

Ronnie

[poslcda]

Hi, I have just got a demonstator prius? What is the difference between the new models and a pre may 05 model?

Thanks

Ronnie

←

Hello, have a look at http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-sto...161&ref=archive I think this press release outlines all the changes.

I picked up my Prius yesterday, just dived to London and back from Manchester - ~500 miles from zero - I still had a reasonable amount of roadnoise above 70mph, and the strong winds today buffetted the car like crazy, but I haven't spent long enough in the demonstrator I went out in back in April to tell any difference.

Quite a fab car - c. 52mpg - all motorway driving at 85mph+ which worked out as a tank (£35) to cover 500 miles...if I'd driven slower and better, I'm sure I would have got at least mid 50's mpg :-)

By the way, the dealer agreed to stamp and sign a print out of the above web page to confirm my car was one of the new revisions - she reckons all '05 plates (is that from April?) have them - any cars in the retail channel were pulled in April...I'll be onto Toyota Head Office with the VIN to check it out :-)

Also, if any of you are looking at buying a Prius, my salesperson Nicola, at RRG Swinton (nr manchester), said she was more than happy for forum members to contact her and she'd come close to matching drivethedeal.com's discounts (i.e. £1000+)...she was excellent to us (including my angst about the model revision) so if you like internet prices, but dealer purchasing, look 'em up. I'm not affiliated with them in any way, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

Oh, and spending 2hrs+ at standstill on the M40 with the engine on electric with full aircon was worth the car purchase on it's own...I almost looked forward to the traffic grinding to a halt!

cheers,

guy.

[Tawse57]

I bet the auto box nade a difference in that jam also - glad you are enjoying your new car.

[poslcda]

I bet the auto box nade a difference in that jam also - glad you are enjoying your new car.

←

yeah -had to remember to dip it into 'n' for the 30 minute plus standstills, to prevent it creeping forward...'spose I could use the park button if I was on a hill?

The automatic gearbox is fantastic, actually. I wasn't looking forward to the 'loss of control' I supposed I'd miss without a manual, and my other auto gearbox experiences have been the horrible laggy ones in smart cars (the ones that change gear 2 seconds after you accelerate hard etc.)

The Prius gearbox is really responsive - even getting decent power between 70mph and 85mph. Also felt powerful between 0-50, although the 50-70 range is not quite as torquey as the diesel tdi I've come from.

Haven't spent much time in city traffic, but I reckon the auto will prove just as easy and enjoyable...

I've shown the car to a few people, and their main source of suprise is that it's so simple to drive - they were expecting a lot of complexity, I think...

guy.

[Tawse57]

yeah -had to remember to dip it into 'n' for the 30 minute plus standstills, to prevent it creeping forward...'spose I could use the park button if I was on a hill?

But the plus is being able to put it into D and having the car creep forward in slow start stop jams without the need to touch the accelerator and move through the gears? This, to me, is the main advantage of an auto here in the UK.

[Braindead]

Neutral should be avoided really. Only place I've found it useful is in IMO 'drag through' car washes. :D

If you're in neutral and don't have your foot on the brake then it's dangerous. If you do have your foot on the brake then you might as well be in Drive mode.

Also, there's some stuff in the manual about the hybrid system not being active when in Neutral and impies the Battery doesn't get charged etc.

Best bet is press P if you're in standing traffic for any length of time.

[Toyota PR]

I drove both pre and post revision Prius back to back last year and there is an easily discernable if not huge difference, especially on the sharpness of the handling (turn-in and body roll control).

I know, I would say that wouldn't I, but it's true.

The shortening of the Prius waiting list in the UK is a combination of more supply (3,500 for 2005 vs. 1,500 for 2004) and reduced demand, mostly due to confusion about the Powershift grant scheme. That is looking likely to be sorted before the end of the year and will see Prius get a grant, but not clear exactly when and how much. £700-1,000 on and £16,000 car might not seem much, but the uncertainty gives some people reason to pause and wait.

Still, it means I got mine three weeks ago so I'm not complaining too much.

Scott

[KMO]

I drove both pre and post revision Prius back to back last year and there is an easily discernable if not huge difference, especially on the sharpness of the handling (turn-in and body roll control).

But is there any visual difference between the two? Some of the more recent photos I've seen give the impression that the radiator grill might have more prominent vertical slats, but it could have been an illusion. Alternatively, some way of telling from the VIN?