Oil Issue 1.8 Vvti

[familyfitz]

Hi

Posted here last week re new Avensis T4 tourer and road noise.

This time, getting very concerned re other 1.8 VVTi GS Tourer we have (2000 / X plate).

This car has always been serviced as per Toyota guidlines. Last service was June 04 I think (54,000 mile). Never before have we had to top up oil between services but suddenly in late March we found the engine had next to no oil in it - we were lucky to catch it in time!!!! Put about 4L in at that time and since finished off a 5L bottle i.e. we have put 5L in the car now since the last service and all within a couple of months. Didn't think at the time of taking it to garage as didn't realise the potential problem existing with the cars.

Since discovering this site last week and posting re the other car, I have obviously learned of the problem and it causes me great concern.

We put the car in for it's 60,000 service this week ( car has done approx 64,000 miles i.e. 10,000 after last service) and I mentioned the possible problem and also produced a post from here. basically they have filled up the oil to their desired level and asked that we take it back at 1000 miles for oil consumption to be measured.

The garage said 5L in 10,000 miles was within recommendation but how can a car be OK when it suddenly needs a full 5L extra oil between services having never needed it before. We have 5 months of an extended warranty left but my concern is that nothing significant shows in this next 1000miles and they won't do anything even altho they acknowledged that they have had problems on this particular engine (my brother is an AA patrolman and says he has taken in several cars with this engine for the same fault). Incidently he said that if there was a problem it would be fixed either by Toyota themselves or under our extended warranty.

Full details of peoples problems would be appreciated with outcomes at their garages too.

I hope to be able to print this off to produce to them should they be hesitant.

I have to say they have always done things under warranty before with no debate and it is in their interests to do so again as we now have 2 cars requiring servicing.

Here's hoping....

Thanks for any comments forthcoming. I know it kinda repeats various other posts but they are so dotted about.

Sara

PS Taking new T4 for test drive Saturday just to determine if road noise is that which is expected and reported for these cars. Still worries me that something else is wrong!

[Avensis wagon]

Sorry, can't comment on oil but can comment somewhat on road noise. Some have reported that the 17" alloys give a problem (gimmick, best avoided) and then, from my own point of view, it's a pity that manufacturers have to keep costs down by skimping on the tyres that come with the car: you can buy quieter.

Although unnoticable in town, tyre noise does come through more than I would like for a car of this class and build quality at motorway speeds. A sort of all round hum and rumble. To be fair, some of it is the car, some the tyres, and some of it the fact that there is so little wind noise and suspension noise when riding bumps etc. that other noises stand out more than they would with some other cars.

The Avensis is, however, much quiter than the Mazda6. If you want really quiet in this class, test drive a Primera and see what you think of this queen of quiet.

Queries I would have about the oil issue are whether the problem still exists on new cars and, as some have wondered here, whether the problem applied only to the 1.8 litre or if it was simplyl ess reported with the less sold 2 litre engine (or 1.6 on the Corolla and Avensis for that matter). It's possible that the 2 litre would give more peace of mind, and you wouldn't need to rev it so high to accelerate or stay at cruise, so less engine noise there (power steering on 2 litre is heavier but less fidgety -- hydraulic versus electronic).

I don't know if any of this helps, but in my own humble way I spent a long time looking into my Avensis purchase and am happy to pass on the bits and bobs I found out along the way.

[sigrid]

This oil consumption problem reminds me of a problem that affected BMW's upto 1998. The six cylinder cars had a cylinder lining called Nikasil which degraded and broke down due to the higher sulphur content of certain UK fuels, this caused excessive oil consumption and eventually a new engine. BMW tried to sweep it under the rug but people got wise to it and demanded free replacement engines etc....

My feeling is Toyota know there is a problem with ALL VVTi engines but are keeping quiet about it, because in the end it will cost them a fortune.

Just changed my Corolla for a D4D and am very happy with it.

[bigkilty]

Hi there, as i have already posted about the oil problem with 2001 Avensis 1.8VVTI .as i had full service history done by Toyota garage and agreed to let a Toyota garage strip down engine and send bore mesurements to Toyota,i didn't have to pay for new short engine,it only took two and half weeks then got car back on road.Toyota seem to acknowledge there is a major problem with this car.Hope this helps and puts your mind at ease.

[Avensis wagon]

It would be interesting to know if this problem was a temporary hitch in the first year or two that has since been cleared up or whether it persists. Toyota would certainly have made the effort to fix it. Could be design, but the way people are talking of bore measurements suggests machining tolerances.

Even before the VVT-i, Toyota engines have generally taken a little more oil than others. That's the type-fault/quirk of Toyota.

There's something to be said for not buying a totally new car design in its first year (facelifts excepted). Rather something tried and tested.

[familyfitz]

Spoke to dealer at weekend and evidently the problem lies with the 'first' VVTi engine i.e. ours is an X reg. My dad has a W reg 1.8 NOT VVTi and they are fine. We have just bought a replacement tourer 1.8VVTi so you can imagine our horror learning of this problem after having bought the new car but evidently this car isn't affected as it has been redesigned (time will tell!!!!). The question remains, at what point the first VVTi engine was redesigned to overcome the problems people were getting?

Sara

[Avensis wagon]

So how did the test drive go? Is the new car you mentioned the result of last weekend's activity?

Andrew

[familyfitz]

Hi

The test drive of our new T4 went fine. The head mechanic whom I have known now for several years (and who knows me and the sort of things I will persist on getting an answer to!) drove the car with me as a passanger. he said had he been on his own he probably would have said nothing wrong but the fact I was with him directing him to the noise I was hearing, he said he could hear it. He sayd a few of the new style avensis are coming back in with wheel bearings going in rear wheels so it may be the startings of that. But he said let it develop (as it would were it the wheel bearings) and they would investigate further then. Importantly he said there was nothing wrong with the car and not to be concerned for that noise i.e. don't need to go back to the original garage with a 'dud' car.

I feel I can trust this guy so am happier now with the noise issue.

As far as this frenzy of activity has been concerned, we have always planned on buying a new car at this time so that was just in line with those plans. All the issues re starter motor and oil consumption reared after deciding NOT to trade in the older car and keep it as our second car - because it's a good car, very reliable etc etc!!!!!! Let's hope our extended warranty on the older car comes good and we can get all put right before that runs out i.e. the new short engine which I expect is needed.

Just the oil problem on the older one to get sorted as soon as poss after the 100mile test.

Sara

[aven_man]

My previous car was a 01 Avensis (1600). I bought it second hand and after 2 weeks of driving I had to top up with about 1 litre of oil. Went back to dealers who with no hesitation took the car in, stripped the engine down and replaced gaskets somewhere. 2 day job but never had that problem after. Dealer did say this was an issue with the first VVT-i engines.

Other issue I've seen in numerous threads here is noisy steering especially under heavy load. I had this problem also and steering rack was replaced. But problem came back, 2 dealers could not find issue so eventually traded in for new model.

I have had the first model Avensis (98) which came out also, that was the most reliable car I've ever had, not even a puncture. The face lift model I had was a pain so got rid but the new model is a joy. So far (6 months) no issues what so ever and the quality all round compared to the 2 previous models is way ahead. Feels Audi like quality build.

[familyfitz]

Interesting - the steering rack was also replaced on the X reg car.

I agree that the new one is Audi like - much more solid looking and thus far is lovely to drive (apart from the greater road noise but getting used to that now).

Going camping this weekend so will be able to really give it a test drive - that's if the Roof Rack fits and hence we get the roof box on. According to Halfords they say the attachements that fitted the X reg should fit this one - will see tonight!!!

Sara

[andy.harvey]

I have a 2001 Avensis Estate 1.8 which at 2.5 years old (approx 50,000 miles) suddenly used all its oil (the light came on between services and trhe dip stick wasnt even wet!).

Took it to Toyota and the bottom engine was changed in 3 days.

Since then I have spoken to 2 Avensis owners, one of which had two new engines.

I'd love to know what the probel is. Toyota obviously know, but they didnt let on.

I'm now out of warrentee, so it will interesting if the "new engine" goes in the next couple of years!

[donnacha67]

:( :(

Hi

Posted here last week re new Avensis T4 tourer and road noise.

This time, getting very concerned re other 1.8 VVTi GS Tourer we have (2000 / X plate).

This car has always been serviced as per Toyota guidlines. Last service was June 04 I think (54,000 mile). Never before have we had to top up oil between services but suddenly in late March we found the engine had next to no oil in it - we were lucky to catch it in time!!!! Put about 4L in at that time and since finished off a 5L bottle i.e. we have put 5L in the car now since the last service and all within a couple of months. Didn't think at the time of taking it to garage as didn't realise the potential problem existing with the cars.

Since discovering this site last week and posting re the other car, I have obviously learned of the problem and it causes me great concern.

We put the car in for it's 60,000 service this week ( car has done approx 64,000 miles i.e. 10,000 after last service) and I mentioned the possible problem and also produced a post from here. basically they have filled up the oil to their desired level and asked that we take it back at 1000 miles for oil consumption to be measured.

The garage said 5L in 10,000 miles was within recommendation but how can a car be OK when it suddenly needs a full 5L extra oil between services having never needed it before. We have 5 months of an extended warranty left but my concern is that nothing significant shows in this next 1000miles and they won't do anything even altho they acknowledged that they have had problems on this particular engine (my brother is an AA patrolman and says he has taken in several cars with this engine for the same fault). Incidently he said that if there was a problem it would be fixed either by Toyota themselves or under our extended warranty.

Full details of peoples problems would be appreciated with outcomes at their garages too.

I hope to be able to print this off to produce to them should they be hesitant.

I have to say they have always done things under warranty before with no debate and it is in their interests to do so again as we now have 2 cars requiring servicing.

Here's hoping....

Thanks for any comments forthcoming. I know it kinda repeats various other posts but they are so dotted about.

Sara

PS Taking new T4 for test drive Saturday just to determine if road noise is that which is expected and reported for these cars. Still worries me that something else is wrong!

←

[donnacha67]

I have a 1.6 petrol vvti 01 which i purchased in jan o5 from a toyota dealership. I t had only 29000 miles on it .From an enquiry to the previous owner I found out that thwe engine was replaced under toyota at roughly 42 months old .It had approx 20000 miles on it .It was leaking oil and down on power.On questioning the service mgr he stated that this was a problem with a few of the early vvti units and these were changed by toyota free of charge.A friend of mine with an avensis taxi 01 vvti engine was also replaced which had the same fault.I would advise you to seek a replacement engine from toyota as this was a major engine fault and a precedent is probably in place if you push the issue with toyota itself,go above the dealership if you have to .

[Tony Greenwood]

I've had a 1.6 petrol engine for the last 7 months. Now 42k mileage, I noticed excessive oil consumption, my Toyota dealer set up an oil consumption check at 40k service and close monitoring revealed it had gone through over 4 litres in only 1,400 miles. The dealer acknowledged a known problem with some 1.8 engines but they hadn't come across an oil issue with 1.6 engines but is now checking with Toyota. I have two questions I'd be grateful for some feedback from other members - Is this issue limited to 1.8's or just appears less frequently in 1.6's as 1.8 is the most popular engine size? Objective technical advice - does (presumably) burning excessive oil cause damage to the engine and if so, should the engine be replaced? I still have 5 months left on extended warranty. Many thanks

[Avensis wagon]

I've had a 1.6 petrol engine for the last 7 months. Now 42k mileage, I noticed excessive oil consumption, my Toyota dealer set up an oil consumption check at 40k service and close monitoring revealed it had gone through over 4 litres in only 1,400 miles. The dealer acknowledged a known problem with some 1.8 engines but they hadn't come across an oil issue with 1.6 engines but is now checking with Toyota. I have two questions I'd be grateful for some feedback from other members - Is this issue limited to 1.8's or just appears less frequently in 1.6's as 1.8 is the most popular engine size? Objective technical advice - does (presumably) burning excessive oil cause damage to the engine and if so, should the engine be replaced? I still have 5 months left on extended warranty. Many thanks

←

All I can say is that the widely sold Corolla is available and often bought with the 1.6 engine and you don't see the same complaints. My old 2001 Corolla had 70,000 km on the clock and never used a drop -- even when I forgot to service it for 22,000 km (oops, moved further from the city and hadn't noticed the extra mileage clocking up faster).

I don't know much about your warranty or the age of your car, but people here have brought up the fact that the car may come with a three-year warranty, but the engine has a rather unpublicized 5-year warranty. Perhaps someone else can help out here.

[Black Knight]

True, but Corolla is a much lighter car. Much lower effort for the engine

[Cretin]

I've had an X-reg Avensis 1.8 for under a year and for the past few months, it's been quite oil-thirsty (Refilled up to max and not had to wait too long before the oil light started coming on when braking or cornering). The other night, the engine suddenly started making grinding sounds and apparently the big end's gone.

I'm currently waiting to hear if it's going to be covered by the warrantee (been 20,000m since last service)

I'm wondering if this could have been caused by a 'known' issue with the VVTi engine as I've seen other postings on here talking about issues with early VVTi's. I'm mainly looking for ammunition to use if they tell me it's not covered by the warrantee - the guy I spoke to said it'd be at least £2000 (eek!)

Will

[bigkilty]

I've had an X-reg Avensis 1.8 for under a year and for the past few months, it's been quite oil-thirsty (Refilled up to max and not had to wait too long before the oil light started coming on when braking or cornering). The other night, the engine suddenly started making grinding sounds and apparently the big end's gone.

I'm currently waiting to hear if it's going to be covered by the warrantee (been 20,000m since last service)

I'm wondering if this could have been caused by a 'known' issue with the VVTi engine as I've seen other postings on here talking about issues with early VVTi's. I'm mainly looking for ammunition to use if they tell me it's not covered by the warrantee - the guy I spoke to said it'd be at least £2000 (eek!)

Will

←

[bigkilty]

Same year as our car and same problem aswell.We put our car in about three months ago and got it back after it being two and half weeks in garage.We didnt pay a penny as toyota know about problem.Hope this cheers you up a little bit.

[tarbee]

I`ve got a 1.8 from 2001 and it uses quite a bit of oil . Its like waiting for a time bomb to go off. I`m gonna get rid of it before the 5 years is up as I dont want to have to pay 2 grand plus for engine rebuild. VERY dissapointed with TOYOTA Avensis. To put it plainly the car was a bad buy. I like the look of the RAV-4 so might get one of these next time-but for the Avensis around this age-FORGET IT!!!! ITS A DOG.

[Black Knight]

I've had an X-reg Avensis 1.8 for under a year and for the past few months, it's been quite oil-thirsty (Refilled up to max and not had to wait too long before the oil light started coming on when braking or cornering). The other night, the engine suddenly started making grinding sounds and apparently the big end's gone.

I'm currently waiting to hear if it's going to be covered by the warrantee (been 20,000m since last service)

I'm wondering if this could have been caused by a 'known' issue with the VVTi engine as I've seen other postings on here talking about issues with early VVTi's. I'm mainly looking for ammunition to use if they tell me it's not covered by the warrantee - the guy I spoke to said it'd be at least £2000 (eek!)

Will

←

Is that 20,000 miles since last oil change or from last service?

If it's 20,000 miles since last oil change it's no wonder it failed.

Oil has two measurements that show how hard the oil has worked. These are TAN (Total Acid Number) and TBN (Total Base Number). Oils have base metals added to them which neutralise the acid build up caused by the engine running. If you run an engine too long with the same oil in it the Acid builds up, all the base is neutralised and the oil stops working. You can't just recover it by adding more oil (and hence base) you need to drain the oil (and acid) and replace it.

If you run your oil for too long even if it looks like you have plenty of oil it may not be lubricating any more. Con-rod bearings take the biggest hammering since they've the cyclical loading up and down and they fail first hence your big end failure.

(presuming you didn't change the oil)

[Avensis wagon]

Agreed, if 20,000 miles is the correct figure, it would be hard to see how the warranty would be valid. Responsibility works both ways.

A fair point has been raised, though. A good initial sales argument is resale value, and I have to say that a 2000 - 2002 1.8 Avensis may carry an element of risk. But then again, doesn't every car, new or used? I wouldn't quite call it statistically unsound.

Black Knight's post reminds me of my younger days -- popped a rod on a transit van, a big bang on the motorway followed by much clanking, blue smoke in the cabin and engine seizure. Silly me, a cursory glance told me the dipstick was still on the side of the engine block where I left it, i.e the oil escaped from the rather low and dipstick-less cavity. They don't make them like that anymore. The damage was done, so the only practical measure was to put the dipstick in its rightful place and declare a mystery of clapped out old vehicles to my boss.

[bellymonster]

I have a 1.6 X Plate Avensis and it has started to burn horrific amounts of oil. It went in for an MOT at a Toyota dealers 2 months ago and the mechanic warned me that he had to put 4 litres of oil into it. I checked last night (forogt all about the mechanics warning) and it was below the minimum level again. I put 1.5 litres into it today and that has brought it back up to just below the maximum level again.

I can only think that it must have been running on oil vapours when he had to put 4 litres into it.

My 12 month warranty ran out 2 months ago, someone mentioned a 5 year engine warranty, is there a document specifying this for sure before I start communications with the dealer.

Should I push for a new engine ?

[tarbee]

Yes if the car is less than 5 years old you stand a good chance as their is an unofficial warranty with this problem. Let your dealer know that you know this fact.

Who would have thought it hey? Very poor quality parts on Toyotas. Someone told me that this problem could be when the bores in the engine start to go 'oval' in shape? Perhaps its a temperature or rev issue? People who do lots of motorway miles seem to have more of a problem.

[aachow]

I`ve got a 1.8 from 2001 and it uses quite a bit of oil . Its like waiting for a time bomb to go off. I`m gonna get rid of it before the 5 years is up as I dont want to have to pay 2 grand plus for engine rebuild. VERY dissapointed with TOYOTA Avensis. To put it plainly the car was a bad buy. I like the look of the RAV-4 so might get one of these next time-but for the Avensis around this age-FORGET IT!!!! ITS A DOG.

←

I have got a 1.8 from 2002 with 28K on the clock and it has similar oil problem too. I am contacted Toyota dealer but as usual, they will not admit it's their problem. I am frustrated and angry and should have listen to my wife to get a Honda instead.