Investigation Into Oil Loss

[Kevstir]

if you only do short journeys m8 may be the rings have become stuck and there not getting time to free up due to the shortness of the journeys, might be worth giving it a good run up and down the motorway for a hour or 2 :D

i just did a 1016(not sayin u have to do that much) mile trip last week and can tell the car feels much better, i only put the same oil as you put in before i did the trip so maybe its done some good on mines :D

[sotal]

I do, do occasional trips on the motorway - It's just not very often. Most weeks I will do about 50 miles of short journeys. Then I'll do odd trips maybe once a month or so which will involve going 100 miles or so on the motorway 50 each way. Not sure if that's enough??

[cookci]

its worth visiting the red line every now and again to free up the rings.

do you do that?

has anyone recommended the ATF trick?

[Tarby777]

Hi Sotal,

You might remember that I posted a question about my '97 ST's heavy oil use a few weeks ago. I've skimmed through all the posts in your thread and must admit that, being mechanically-challenged, a lot of it has gone over my head, although it's all interesting stuff and I'm hoping we might have the same problem. Is it right to say that so far, in summary, you've tried some fancy expensive oil, didn't really see much improvement, found nothing unusual under the bonnet and have more or less decided that it's a problem with the piston rings?

I bought my car in May with just under 52k on the clock and when I checked the oil after about a month, it wasn't even registering on the dipstick and I had to put 3 litres in. Last weekend I had to put a further 2 litres in to get it back to "full", and I've done approaching 4000 miles since I bought it. There are no pools where I park, the car passed an emissions test when I bought it and everything looks clean under the bonnet (on the outside, at least... I haven't opened anything up). A mechanic who I know to be competent and an all-round good egg failed to find anything, so I'm really stumped now! No-one who's looked at it seems to think there's anything wrong. OK, the 7A-FE has a reputation, but surely it's not right for it to drink this much! Out of interest, how do my figures compare with yours? FWIW, I do mostly motorway driving - around 20 miles each way to and from work.

Good luck in finding the cause of the problem...

Tarby

[sotal]

Occasionally I will get up towards the redline, whilst overtaking etc but not very often. I actully drove the whole 5 mile journey to work the other day without going above 30 mph and I never touched the brakes until I came to stop in the car parking space

Whats ATF?

[cookci]

its worth visiting the redline once i week imo to free up the engine.

Automatic transmission fluid... take your spark plugs out and pour ATF down the holes. Leave for a few hours or prefebaly overnight. Turn the engine over... maybe by hand first. make sure your put ALOT of cloths around the catch the fluid..

start the engine and give it a good thrashing.

it helps clear gummed up piston rings

[sotal]

Hi Sotal,

You might remember that I posted a question about my '97 ST's heavy oil use a few weeks ago. I've skimmed through all the posts in your thread and must admit that, being mechanically-challenged, a lot of it has gone over my head, although it's all interesting stuff and I'm hoping we might have the same problem. Is it right to say that so far, in summary, you've tried some fancy expensive oil, didn't really see much improvement, found nothing unusual under the bonnet and have more or less decided that it's a problem with the piston rings?

I bought my car in May with just under 52k on the clock and when I checked the oil after about a month, it wasn't even registering on the dipstick and I had to put 3 litres in. Last weekend I had to put a further 2 litres in to get it back to "full", and I've done approaching 4000 miles since I bought it. There are no pools where I park, the car passed an emissions test when I bought it and everything looks clean under the bonnet (on the outside, at least... I haven't opened anything up). A mechanic who I know to be competent and an all-round good egg failed to find anything, so I'm really stumped now! No-one who's looked at it seems to think there's anything wrong. OK, the 7A-FE has a reputation, but surely it's not right for it to drink this much! Out of interest, how do my figures compare with yours? FWIW, I do mostly motorway driving - around 20 miles each way to and from work.

Good luck in finding the cause of the problem...

Tarby

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I'm not convinced that it's the rings.

You should also be topping it up more often, adding 2 or 3 litres is too much - you will be getting damage to other parts. From Max to Min it is 1.2 Litres. You should never be able to top up more than 1.2 litres. If you are then your engine won't last long . I check and top up every time I fill the petrol up.

Motorway driving will cause anything that has diluted the oil (moisture and petrol) to evaporate and will make the level drop quicker.

I think it's just a feature of the car - I'm not sure what to say with what to do for the future and what oil to use as it seems a waste of time putting expensive stuff in on a reglar basis

I would say your usage must be similar. You have used 5 litres over 4000 miles.

I have recently used about .4 of a litre over 300 miles which works out to not far off your useage

[sotal]

its worth visiting the redline once i week imo to free up the engine.

Automatic transmission fluid... take your spark plugs out and pour ATF down the holes. Leave for a few hours or prefebaly overnight. Turn the engine over... maybe by hand first. make sure your put ALOT of cloths around the catch the fluid..

start the engine and give it a good thrashing.

it helps clear gummed up piston rings

←

Not heard that one before - does anyone else recommend it?

[mikeb]

its worth visiting the redline once i week imo to free up the engine.

Automatic transmission fluid... take your spark plugs out and pour ATF down the holes. Leave for a few hours or prefebaly overnight. Turn the engine over... maybe by hand first. make sure your put ALOT of cloths around the catch the fluid..

start the engine and give it a good thrashing.

it helps clear gummed up piston rings

←

Not heard that one before - does anyone else recommend it?

←

It's probably worth a try. Carbon deposits can build up around the oil rings and make them stick. There are other concoctions you could tip in there to try. In the US they have some stuff called 'Marvel Mystery Oil' and 'Rislone'. I've read stories of people putting it in their cylinders to free up piston rings. Depending on what you put down there I would be tempted to do a full oil change shortly afterwards.

I don't see the point in wasting very expensive oils in engines that are just going to burn it off. You shouldn't be having to problem with moisture/condensation etc this time of year, and certainly not now you are using silkolene oil. It sounds more like a plain case of the high engine speeds accelerating oil consumption. I would be inclined to use a premium mineral oil, e.g. Castrol GTX or similar.

Or you could just sell it and get a GT(4). You know you want to! :!Removed!:

[sotal]

Or you could just sell it and get a GT(4). You know you want to!  :!Removed!:

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I would love to - I just wouldn't love the insurance prices! I'll see if anyone else comments on the ATF trick but could one of you go through exactly step by step what to do. A sort of Dummies guide to...

[cookci]

my guide was a dummies guide! lol

-take spark plugs out

-pour in ATF

-Leave overnight

-turn key to turn engine over to release majority of ATF thru spark plug holes. ATF may fire about 20FT in the air if your not careful

-Put spark plugs back in

-start and run engine. A little smoke may come out the exhaust now ;)

-jobs done

-Thrash your car

;)

[sotal]

Is the middle bit safe! The bit where atf shoots into the air??

The bit I was unsure about was when I put the plugs back in! I originally thought you might put them back in then turn it over. You have to be clear for us dummies :P

I'd still like a couple of others to post to say if this is safe!!! :D Also I would prefer it if I could buy a bottle of stuff which was meant for this. Even if it is expensive ATF in a different bottle!!!

[mikeb]

Is the middle bit safe! The bit where atf shoots into the air??

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As long as you don't look down the plug hole when you do it! Put a rag over the plug holes to stop it going everywhere.

I would be inclined to turn the engine over a couple of times by hand just after putting the atf in. Then put some more in. I've never needed to try this, so don't blame me if it doesn't work. But I can't see it doing any damage other than contaminating your oil.

[cookci]

yeah it'l need an oil change after probably. turn it over by hand agreed before u fill it totally and after uve finished to help drain a little out first

it can work. wont do any harm

[sotal]

Ok Mileage is now at 12,600 So I've done 550 miles since I started this test on the 3rd July During that time I have used nearly 1 litre of oil topping it up. So the better quality oil idea unfortunatley didn't work. I just hope Simon at the Oil place honours is gaurantee that it would fix it

[mikeb]

I would have expected a noticable improvement purely on the basis that the new oil is thicker than what you had been using. Are you saying it's consumed an entire litre of oil in 550 miles? That's rather bad.

[sotal]

It's not far off a litre, good job I check it often

To be honest it hasn't been as much of a problem due to the fact that we have nice sunny weather and I keep using my motorbike so I haven't done as many miles in the car. I'm averaging 100 miles /week in the celica and that included a 150 mile round trip on the motorway last week!

[sotal]

Well I'm at 12,900 miles on the clock. So that's a total of 850 Miles that I have done since I first put this oil in the car. I have now used all the extra oil that was left in the can topping the engine up and the level is about half way down the dipstick :(

So the thicker oil definatley didn't fix the problem, I'll give Simon a ring and see if he honours the gaurantee :)

[sotal]

I got through to Simon regarding the gaurantee, he was very friendly and offered to honour the gaurantee of a full refund, but I asked if it was alright to have another bottle sent out as I didn't really want to mix any other oil in with this stuff and he said that was fine. So another bottle is on it's way - atleast it's protecting my engine well!

So I can highly recommend Simon as he is honest and reliable if you need any oil or advice on which oil to get give him a ring:

Simon

01209 215164

[celica dave]

so us st owners are no wiser to finding out our oil problem :ffs: someone must know whats up as it seems most st 's suffer the same problem(on this site and on TOC!) help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. there must be some one on the sites who knows the answer?????

[Uncle Bob]

Just read this post from end to end...can i add a suggestion, now that you have carried out the oil consumption test (with the same results as before), you should now replace the PCV valve as mentioned earlier, look at the photo of your engine, it mounted in the rocker end of the black pipe, between number 2 and 3 HT leads.

I had spent 18 years as a mechanic ( until i had a career change 4 years ago ) , and some years back ,i worked with a guy ,that had worked for Toyota and he use to replace the PCV valve on every service, so it would make sence to get it done

[celica dave]

thanks bob, anybody know the part number?must be worth a try!

[Uncle Bob]

Sorry no part number ;) .

This is a better shot of the PCV, its the little grey thing on the end of the black pipe, it goes into the hole on the rocker cover .

[celica dave]

sorry for being a bit green bob but what is a pcv?

[Uncle Bob]

sorry for being a bit green bob but what is a pcv?

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This covers it i think......

PCV VALVE

Definition: The Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve is an emissions control device that routes unburned crankcase blowby gases back into the intake manifold where they can be reburned. The PCV system is one of the oldest emission control

devices, and also one of the most beneficial. Besides totally eliminating crankcase emissions as a source of air pollution, the constant recirculation of air through the crankcase helps remove moisture which otherwise would cause sludge to form. Thus the PCV valve extends the life of the oil and engine.