94 Celica Engine Swaps?

[lipster]

hey, im new to this forum so idk really whats goin on exactly so any help would be good help and also im basically a retart when it comes to cars so yea....i have a 94 celica and i wanna take out the stock engine and swap it for something faster... ive done some research and as far as i know the only thing ive heard of being possible is the 3sgte swap but i heard of the all trac one and the MR2 one....if i swaped it with the MR2 engine would i have to do all the crap with making it RWD? are there any other engine swaps that i can do w.o having to get a whole new engine harness, ECU and all that? please help me out....thanks

[daktari]

Welcome to TOC. What engine do you have in at the moment?

The 3S-GTE will go in ok. I think you will have to use the MR2 gearbox and driveshafts as well, Not too sure about that but someone will be along who knows for sure, but it would still be front wheel drive. Also you will have to splice the ECU for a 3S-GTE into your wiring loom. Might it not be easier to trac(sic) down an all-trac.?

[lipster]

hey thanks ummm i have the stock engine that it came with the 94 lol ummm 5fse or something along those lines if my mind serves me right...yea idk much about the swap other than i wanna do it and little bits and peices of info. and what do u mean with the alltrac...i dont want it to be like a GT4 i heard itll cost like 7k for like a conversion box or something idk but id rather it be FWD so i dont have to change it. ive got like 10k to spend but i wanna buy a bike 2 so id rather not spend it all lol

[sotal]

if you've got 10k to spend, sell the car and get what you can for it then buy a GT4, and a bike then you will be happy :D

Also insurance will probably be better on a GT4 than a homebrew car, and the GT4 will probably have less problems - and think of that work you will have saved and the GT4 will be worth more than the home made faster standard celica.

[sephton19661]

Thats exactly what i would do aswell sotal if i have 10k to spend on my car the car would go and id get a really good gt4 daks would do.

Much more less hassle in the long run.

[sotal]

I'd wait for dak to finish working on it first

[lipster]

its def. a good plan but i tried to sell the car originally but no1 wants it cause cosmetically its a peice of ****. so i think it would be easier to just put a new engine in it. and also my dads friend can get the engines at cost and he said hed drop it in for free. so yea but i do appreciate the sugguestions.

[lipster]

but im still curious with the MR2 3sGTE do i have to convert the celica to AWD or RWD? or can i just keep it FWD?

[daktari]

Nope. You can keep it FWD just by using the MR2 tranny and drive shafts.

[lipster]

ok nice. but again another dumb question....driveshafts are they a part of the engine, if not are they cheap to buy and easy to find. thanks again

[daktari]

They`re the bits that connect your wheels to the gearbox. You could probably get the lot from a wreckers yard.

[lipster]

thanks

[daktari]

thanks

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[lipster]

ok so ive been lookin through the stickies and looking through this and aother forums....so just to make myself 100% sure cause i mean this is a HUGE project to take up .....if i get an MR2 3sgte engine it will indeed just drop/bolt into my 94 celica and it should all hook up correctly? and i shouldnt have a problem with using my stock tranny? i do have another question (sry i dont mean to bombard u guys with em but u kno) the MR2 tranny i understand it was like reversed or something to make it RWD? does that mean i could just flip it round to make it front wheel cause my stock tranny has 130k miles on it do u think thats too much?

thanks again guys

[daktari]

Not quite. The engine and tranny are in exactly the same position. It`s just that they moved the whole lot 10 feet back to drive the rear wheels instead of the fronts.

All you got to do is take it out the MR2 and move it 10 feet forward to drive the front wheels. Easy huh. Actually thats over simplifying it a little bit. You`ll still have to patch the MR2 ECU into your wiring loom. Not a huge job for a good auto electrician.

Hope this clarifies it a bit for you. Any more questions... Ask. Only too happy to help.

I`m pretty sure your tranny wont fit the 3SGTE engine. Something to do with the starter motor. Not too suere on that tho.

[lipster]

ok i think u might be right idk but people are telling me its smarter to buy a st185 front clip, which makes sense. so im prob gonna do that. cause allegedly my tranny works with it and the engine fits better than the MR2. but i have a ? i dont get this concept too much does just the trans determine if its FWD AWD or RWD? cause the place im gonna prob get the clip from it says it comes witha AWD tranny i dont understand lol somebody fill me in.

[daktari]

Ah. Understand about the front clip thing now. We call it a front cut.

ENGINES:- Basically the engines from the GT4 and MR2`s are the same. You`ll hear revision 1, 2 & 3 used. This refers to the age of the engine. Example:- Rev1 engines were used on Gen4(ST165) model GT4`s Rev2 engines on the Gen5(ST185) and Rev3 engine on Gen 6.(ST205) The MR2 Turbo only used the Rev2 and Rev3 engines i believe. Someone correct me if i`m wrong.

TRANSMISSION:- The celica turbos only came with a AWD transmision (This has a transfer box attached which basically takes drive to the rear wheels via a prop shaft) so installing the complete setup from a GT4 into a FWD Celica is not really an option as the bodyshell would have to be alterred significantly to accomodate the front to rear propshaft and rear differential mountings. This is why the MR2 transmission is used in conjunction with the MR2 driveshafts on a conversion. Also the MR2 Turbo gearbox is designed to cope with the 200+ BHP.

Using a front cut will not really solve any problems as you will not be able to use the transfer box and would have to seperate the transfer box from the gearbox and blank off a large part of the gearbox casing. You would of course have all the correct engine and gearbox mounts.

The MR2 gearbox will fit no problem, but you might have to fabricate different gearbox mountings.

Thats my understanding of it anyway. So if i`ve made any mistakes i appologise.

[cookci]

hello WTTC.

i dont mean to sound harsh and i know u have to start somewhere but this job sounds a little out of your capability.

It really would be best for you to just buy a fast car to start with especially if your body work is **** too.

I mean these 3SGTE engines are VERY expensive and the gearboxes too .

just my 2 pence

[lipster]

not harsh at all i totally agree with u,... 1 thing tho i wont be doing the swap, my dads friend is a mechanic he said hed do it for me i wanted to know all of the stuff for my own personal knowledge

[lipster]

ahh got ya just read the front cut part now.....so basically which front cut do you guys think i should go with, the MR2 rear cut (i guess) or the st185?

[daktari]

IF I were doing it i`d go with the MR2. You know everything is going to fit ok, because it`s a tried and tested method. And theres plenty of web based resources if you do get stuck. The GT4 option is going to entail more work. This is only my opinion. Others may disagree.

[lipster]

yea i hear u i prob will go that way...and the MR2 engine should still just drop/bolt right it just like the st185 would correct?

[daktari]

Yep. Might have to source some 185 engine mounts, but thats a minor hiccup.

[lipster]

gotya thanks

[mikeb]

its def. a good plan but i tried to sell the car originally but no1 wants it cause cosmetically its a peice of ****. so i think it would be easier to just put a new engine in it. and also my dads friend can get the engines at cost and he said hed drop it in for free. so yea but i do appreciate the sugguestions.

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No offence, but if the car is that bad cosmetically, is it really worth wasting an engine transplant on it?

A cheaper option would be to go for the non turbo 3s-ge engine. It is very similar to your current lump, but with a better breathing cylinder head. It is only 2 litre, but the revision 3 version makes >170hp. It will go straight onto your existing transmission, and will be a lot less work than a 3s-gte swap. Even better would be to rebuild your 5s-fe engine with the 3s-ge head and pistons. This should get you 190hp, and your tranny should still take it (oh God, you don't have an auto do you?). I don't know if the 3s-ge made it to the US, so you might have to import one.