Rev 2 Or Rev 3 Tubby

[TOYMOTA]

Are there any real drawbacks in buying a Rev 2 instead of a Rev 3?

Would uprating the shocks on the 2 with a set of KYB's sort out the handling problem Toyota delt with by adding Bilstein shocks on the 3?

If the 2 has an LSD like the 3 then that's one thing less to worry about. Does the LSD make a big difference to the handling?

Other than that, there's the issue of power. The 2 only having about 220bhp compared to the 3 with 245bhp. Is it easy to get the 2 upto 250bhp? I see Fensport do a kit of some sort for £180 + VAT which will give an extra 35+bhp. Is that extra 35+bhp figure realistic?

I'm not too fussed about the cosmetic upgrades that Toyota did with the 3, so other than those 3 main things and the cosmetic aspects, are there any other things I should consider??

In a nut Shell, would I be better to wait until I have enough £ for a 3 or just get a 2 and make do?

Thanks.

[Bibbs]

The main suspension changes were rev1-> rev2 .. so that's not really an issue.

The main differance is power delivery, the rev2's are less laggy, but the power fades at high RPM. The Rev3+ were more laggy (500-1000 rpm) but held to the redline, same torque, higher revs = more bhp.

The LSD is essential for good cornering ..

An FCD (fuel cut defender), MCB (manual boost controller) will give your 30bhp .. about £30 each ..

[TOYMOTA]

The main suspension changes were rev1-> rev2 .. so that's not really an issue.

The main differance is power delivery, the rev2's are less laggy, but the power fades at high RPM. The Rev3+ were more laggy (500-1000 rpm) but held to the redline, same torque, higher revs = more bhp.

The LSD is essential for good cornering ..

An FCD (fuel cut defender), MCB (manual boost controller) will give your 30bhp .. about £30 each ..

←

Your's is a Rev 2 isn't it? Does yours have an LSD?

It's about £700 for an LSD from Fensport then there would of course be the fitting price to add on to that. I can do alot of stuff on cars but, wouldn't have the confidence or know how to fit that to a Tubby!

Do the FCD and MBC help with the top end rev range on the Rev 2 or just even more power lower down the revs?

[boundsw]

The MBC lets you set a boost level above stock.

And the FCD is required to stop the ecu cutting fuel to the engine after stock fuel cut levels have been reached (fuel is cut to the engine at a certain boost level (12psi i think on rev 1, 17 psi on rev 3)

With an FCD you can increase this level.

They will just allow more boost to run and so more power in genral !

[Bibbs]

Yeah, mine has an LSD .. was one of the things I specified when buying .. think it was only an option on the rev1's .. Std after.

[TOYMOTA]

boundsw: My knowledge of turbo cars is minimal having never owned one (apart from a TD) so that's helped me understand what they do now.

Yeah, mine has an LSD .. was one of the things I specified when buying .. think it was only an option on the rev1's .. Std after.

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I thought there wasn't an LSD option at all for the REV 1. REV 2 it was an option, and REV 3 it was standard. I think i got this info from the pinned items at the top of the forum.

[Bibbs]

there you go then .. I'm slowly purging my brain of MR2 info as I'm coming to sell her .. :)

[KiwiMR2]

If the 2 has an LSD like the 3 then that's one thing less to worry about. Does the LSD make a big difference to the handling?

Upgrading from a 1990 GT to my 1993 Type III I noticed the LSD quite a bit, mostly on cornering & actually noticed it when launching. All in all I found the Type III suspension upgrade much more predictable, I find I can tell it's limits easier & when I do push past them i can re-gain control a lot easier. Not the be all and end all but does indeed make an overall difference.

In a nut shell, would I be better to wait until I have enough £ for a 3 or just get a 2 and make do?

I got to a point with the 90 where I decided to stop pouring cash into it and save for a Type III. I don't regret it one bit :) If you thinking about it now you will even more once you get a 2.

Do the FCD and MBC help with the top end rev range on the Rev 2 or just even more power lower down the revs?

No...the power dropping off up top is because of the turbo design....all ct26 turbos do that. It wouldn't be able to take as much boost as the Type III ct20b either, I'd say 15 psi into the ct26 & 18 on the ct20b.

Just take a look at my dyno sheet in my thread further down the main page....cat back exhaust, intake, and 3 more psi & 263.8 BHP.....with a downpipe, removal of the cat, a couple more psi, and an intercooler I should pull close to 280-290 BHP at the wheels. Im gonna try and get to the magic 300hp with that sort of setup. I'll chuck a good fuel pressure regulator on there as well.

Im sure the Type II-III differences were stickied??

- MAP sensor instead of AFM

- Bosch D-Jetronic (Gen III) vs. L-Jetronic (relatively primitive) engine management

- CT20b turbo replaces CT26

- Boost raised from 10psi to 13psi

- Fuel cut raised from 12 psi to 18 psi

- Different ECU

- 4 wire O2 sensor

- Shim under bucket valve shims

- slightly more aggressive cams

- Revised internals (pistons, con-rods etc.)

- Revised cylinder head cooling passages/water jackets

- Revised intake manifold (8 'independent long ports' reduced to 4)

- intake manifold inlet air temperature sensor added. i.e. after turbo and intercooler.

- Revised gearbox with close ratio gearing

- lower compression ratio

- stainless steel head gasket

- factory 540cc injectors replace 430cc injectors

- revised fuel rail with bigger bore and relocated pressure regulator

- TVIS eliminated

- EGR eliminated

- LSD in 80% of them

- throttle body increased from 55mm to 60mm

- inlet valve lift increased from 8.2 to 8.7

- intake manifold inlet air temperature sensor added

- Less restrictive exhaust elbow

- Aluminum oil pan

- more rigid alloy sump and additional oil baffles

- Factory Catch can

- Better Oil Cooler and relocated oil filter (bottom)

- 4 Channel ABS coupled with Traction Control available

- No. 1 compression ring described as 'stainless steel' instead of just 'steel'. Oil ring is described as 'stainless steel' instead of 'a combination of steel and stainless steel'.

Cheers

KiwiMR2

[m4rk scotland]

kiwi i noticed you said from the rev 2 to rev 3 the boost was raised from 10psi to 13psi?? mines is running 0.9 bar which i understand is 13psi?? so my boost has been upped from standard??

[KiwiMR2]

kiwi i noticed you said from the rev 2 to rev 3 the boost was raised from 10psi to 13psi??    mines is running 0.9 bar which i understand is 13psi?? so my boost has been upped from standard??

←

Acyually I think it's closer to 11.? for the MAX on the Type I & II, for you to be pulling 13 psi I guess yeah....maybe you do have something. Your not hitting fuel cut? what other mods you have?

Cheers

KiwiMR2

[m4rk scotland]

you think 11psi is closer to 0.9 bar??

got a blitz exhaust and k&n induction kit, thats all i know off. maybe i need to get it rolling roaded to sort it out?? there are times when it feels like the boost is holding back...

[TOYMOTA]

14psi is 1.0 bar isn't it??

My Pug 306 TD is running 18psi at the moment (14psi standard), not bad for a Garret T5 turbo (I think that's what it is), and it's only the size of a clenched fist. I played around with the actuator to get that.

Do the FCD and MBC help with the top end rev range on the Rev 2 or just even more power lower down the revs?

No...the power dropping off up top is because of the turbo design....all ct26 turbos do that. It wouldn't be able to take as much boost as the Type III ct20b either, I'd say 15 psi into the ct26 & 18 on the ct20b.

Cheers

KiwiMR2

←

That could be retified by getting a stage 1 turbo from fenny though couldn't it?? Or even replacing it with a ct20b turbo off the rev 3??

[Jesus]

Save for the Rev3 if you can. Don't rush into it.

Ps... My CT20 turbo has been run at 20.16psi (safely of course).

Good luck whichever way you go.

[Bibbs]

A turbo off the rev3 would help .. a turbo of the mk3 soop is better ..

[nathanfreke]

If the 2 has an LSD like the 3 then that's one thing less to worry about. Does the LSD make a big difference to the handling?

Upgrading from a 1990 GT to my 1993 Type III I noticed the LSD quite a bit, mostly on cornering & actually noticed it when launching. All in all I found the Type III suspension upgrade much more predictable, I find I can tell it's limits easier & when I do push past them i can re-gain control a lot easier. Not the be all and end all but does indeed make an overall difference.

In a nut shell, would I be better to wait until I have enough £ for a 3 or just get a 2 and make do?

I got to a point with the 90 where I decided to stop pouring cash into it and save for a Type III. I don't regret it one bit :) If you thinking about it now you will even more once you get a 2.

Do the FCD and MBC help with the top end rev range on the Rev 2 or just even more power lower down the revs?

No...the power dropping off up top is because of the turbo design....all ct26 turbos do that. It wouldn't be able to take as much boost as the Type III ct20b either, I'd say 15 psi into the ct26 & 18 on the ct20b.

Just take a look at my dyno sheet in my thread further down the main page....cat back exhaust, intake, and 3 more psi & 263.8 BHP.....with a downpipe, removal of the cat, a couple more psi, and an intercooler I should pull close to 280-290 BHP at the wheels. Im gonna try and get to the magic 300hp with that sort of setup. I'll chuck a good fuel pressure regulator on there as well.

Im sure the Type II-III differences were stickied??

- MAP sensor instead of AFM

- Bosch D-Jetronic (Gen III) vs. L-Jetronic (relatively primitive) engine management

- CT20b turbo replaces CT26

- Boost raised from 10psi to 13psi

- Fuel cut raised from 12 psi to 18 psi

- Different ECU

- 4 wire O2 sensor

- Shim under bucket valve shims

- slightly more aggressive cams

- Revised internals (pistons, con-rods etc.)

- Revised cylinder head cooling passages/water jackets

- Revised intake manifold (8 'independent long ports' reduced to 4)

- intake manifold inlet air temperature sensor added. i.e. after turbo and intercooler.

- Revised gearbox with close ratio gearing

- lower compression ratio

- stainless steel head gasket

- factory 540cc injectors replace 430cc injectors

- revised fuel rail with bigger bore and relocated pressure regulator

- TVIS eliminated

- EGR eliminated

- LSD in 80% of them

- throttle body increased from 55mm to 60mm

- inlet valve lift increased from 8.2 to 8.7

- intake manifold inlet air temperature sensor added

- Less restrictive exhaust elbow

- Aluminum oil pan

- more rigid alloy sump and additional oil baffles

- Factory Catch can

- Better Oil Cooler and relocated oil filter (bottom)

- 4 Channel ABS coupled with Traction Control available

- No. 1 compression ring described as 'stainless steel' instead of just 'steel'. Oil ring is described as 'stainless steel' instead of 'a combination of steel and stainless steel'.

Cheers

KiwiMR2

←

Kiwi MR2, you say 80% of the rev 3's have an LSD std. If thats the case how can you tell if it has one or not??

I brought one the other day and just wanted to be sure it has one?? Also its std apart from a back box and its running 1bar boost in 3rd, 4th and 5th gear. Its a defi boost gauge giving me this info but that does seem high for a std motor?! Its very quick too.....

Thanks in advance,

Nathan

[Bibbs]

LSD can be told from your chassis number .. it's in the stickies ..

[jaxx]

A turbo off the rev3 would help .. a turbo of the mk3 soop is better ..

←

how come?

[KiwiMR2]

you think 11psi is closer to 0.9 bar??

Sorry to be confusing...I meant on that list I quoted it says max boost 10 but I think it's closer to 11.? before fuel cut kicks in. 0.9 is indeed 13 psi :)

got a blitz exhaust and k&n induction kit, thats all i know off. maybe i need to get it rolling roaded to sort it out?? there are times when it feels like the boost is holding back...

Is the Blitzt exhaust a FULL exhaust?? I mean does it include a downpipe?? If you have no cat & a downpipe I'd expect that to allow for more boot however for you to be passing the fuel cut you surely must have an FCD in there? Have a look around the engine bay...near the back left where the little grey diagnostics box thing is....from memory an fcd is tapped in around there somewhere usually :)

maybe i need to get it rolling roaded to sort it out?? there are times when it feels like the boost is holding back...

A baisc power run with boost curve etc. is probably good anyway as it will tell you what sort of power your making etc. that way after a couple more mods you will be able to compare it and see what your gains are :)

Holding back....flat spots or taking longer for the boost to start?

That could be retified by getting a stage 1 turbo from fenny though couldn't it?? Or even replacing it with a ct20b turbo off the rev 3??

Up to you on the choice BUT I wouldn't waste ANY money on upgrading the CT26.....heard plenty of talk and bar ONE dyno plot of which was not exactly pretty I've never seen a CT26 in any shape pulling 300hp ATW. Save your pennys and get a CT20b, Al had some great gains with his whith just the CT20b, Aussie DP, panel filter, and 17 odd psi and pulled a safe 253hp. He's off to the dyno to try and beat me this weekend as I just passed him :P Then I'll do my DP & intercooler and have another whack at it...see if I can get closer to the 300 mark.

Save for the Rev3 if you can. Don't rush into it.

Ps... My CT20 turbo has been run at 20.16psi (safely of course).

Good luck whichever way you go.

A turbo off the rev3 would help .. a turbo of the mk3 soop is better ..

Yeah the Supra CT26 seems to be a resonably good upgrade, vs the ct20b though? I wouldn't know as i haven't really looked into what power the sup ct can make...Bibbs? you would have looked into that proir to deciding on your one yeah? I'd say the CT20b is at it's LIMITS at 300hp ish...MAYBE a tad over.

Mine has seen 17 odd psi for 18 months and prior to my fuel cut coming back on board I saw some 20+ psi runs on cold nights :D

IF you have a healthy engine & turbo and you not an idiot and boosting around hard out on hot days etc. they can provide some quite high boost. Would probably feel safer on the steel wheeled ct20b at those pressures but the ceramic one allows for that great spool up that makes them so streetable.

Kiwi MR2, you say 80% of the rev 3's have an LSD std. If thats the case how can you tell if it has one or not??

I brought one the other day and just wanted to be sure it has one?? Also its std apart from a back box and its running 1bar boost in 3rd, 4th and 5th gear. Its a defi boost gauge giving me this info but that does seem high for a std motor?! Its very quick too.....

Thanks in advance,

Nathan

As bibbs mentioned the chassis number should tell ya, or put one wheel on the grass and one on the concrete & do a burn out, see what marks are left ;)

Another one running without hitting fuel cut. Im begining to wonder if boost gauges are out by a psi or so....it's been a good year since my gauge was running (Im lazy & should really sort it) but I was under the impression I was running 17-18 psi according to my gauge on that dyno but it turned out to only be 16 psi so that could be the reason.

Cheers

KiwiMR2

[Bibbs]

the CT26 off the soop on a rev2 block is about 5/10% better than a stock rev3 block ..

It's due to a larger intake ..

[TOYMOTA]

Off to look at a black J reg REV 2 on saturday. 107000 km (67000ish miles) on the clock. It's up for £2995, but should be able to knock em down to at least £2700. The guy reckons it's got an LSD too. Only down side is that it'll only have 220ish bhp instead of 245ish on the REV3, but, it's worth a look I reckon.

[Bibbs]

Off to look at a black J reg REV 2 on saturday. 107000 km (67000ish miles) on the clock. It's up for £2995, but should be able to knock em down to at least £2700. The guy reckons it's got an LSD too. Only down side is that it'll only have 220ish bhp instead of 245ish on the REV3, but, it's worth a look I reckon.

←

Sounds good fella .. just make sure that the chassis number match and if she's a minter you are onto a good buy there ..

[TOYMOTA]

Off to look at a black J reg REV 2 on saturday. 107000 km (67000ish miles) on the clock. It's up for £2995, but should be able to knock em down to at least £2700. The guy reckons it's got an LSD too. Only down side is that it'll only have 220ish bhp instead of 245ish on the REV3, but, it's worth a look I reckon.

←

Sounds good fella .. just make sure that the chassis number match and if she's a minter you are onto a good buy there ..

←

I take it you mean look out for this:

To verify if your car has a LSD, check the vehicle identification plate on the inside of front bonnet. There are a number of codes given there, including the transmission type, whose code starts with the sequence "A/TM"

For example, A/TM:- 735/E153

If the last digit before the /E153 is a '3' or a '5' then the car has a LSD - therefore in the example above it does.

[Bibbs]

nah, I ment check the age .. to make sure it's not a rev1 with a lip spoiler and 15's ..

[TOYMOTA]

nah, I ment check the age .. to make sure it's not a rev1 with a lip spoiler and 15's ..

←

Oh i see.

I thought the REV 1 had 14's, and the 2 and 3 have 15's?

[Bibbs]

nah, I ment check the age .. to make sure it's not a rev1 with a lip spoiler and 15's ..

←

Oh i see.

I thought the REV 1 had 14's, and the 2 and 3 have 15's?

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Yeah, that's right, people slap late spec rims on, rev3 lights and the bigger front lip spoiler and sell 'em as newer.