Kangaroo!

[SyCelicaGT]

Cheers Carrera, I will try this. has it stopped it happening completly or just helped?

Can injector/valve cleaning additives harm the engine in anyway?

[sotal]

I've got a bottle of the Valvoline "Trade Only" stuff which is supposed to clean seals, valves and all sorts just never dared put it in incase it makes things worse with my oil consumption problem!

It's just the stuff you pour into the tank when empty then fill the tank to the top - I may give it a go in a week or so when I run out of fuel. Is there anything more direct you can do with that sort of stuff, I know with redex and stuff like that you can pour it directly into various places. Would it be the same for this stuff??

*edit*

Just to say it does sound like others on here have the kangaroo problem worse than me, my doesn't always do it (maybe weather??) and it is only when going very very slow

[SyCelicaGT]

I agree Sotal, I too am a little sceptical about all these "quick fix" additives. Seems like they can only do more harm than good. Can someone please put my mind to rest or confirm my fears so I know if using this stuff is a good idea? Really want to stop the kangerooing effect but do not want to balls up my motor doing it!

Cheers.

[Carrera_C]

Well it's definately helping with mine and I've only drove about 100 miles since I put it in.

[SyCelicaGT]

Carrera_C - Waht additive did you use in your car? Redex or other?

[MIP]

What happens if you just keep your foot rested ever so lightly on the accelerator? e.g. not to the point where it accelerates, but just keeps your speed constant, or u to slow down more gradually.

I don't think I have this problem myself, 102k miles 202 GT. You can have a go for comparison at the next reading meet Sy.

[andrewl41]

What happens if you just keep your foot rested ever so lightly on the accelerator? e.g. not to the point where it accelerates, but just keeps your speed constant, or u to slow down more gradually.

I don't think I have this problem myself, 102k miles 202 GT.

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It's exactly this kind of time when I have the problem...

Andrew

[SyCelicaGT]

MIP - It is a little like a balancing act, I have to drive very smoothly otherwise it jerks. If it is already jerking and I keep my foot steedy on the accelerator then it just keeps doing it and gets worse and worse as my foot starts to move over the pedel (even though I am trying to keep it still) until I have to engage the clutch to stop it jerking.

When the revs are low and I accelerate slightly and then instantly take my foot of the accelerator e.g. in slow stop start traffic then as the car slows down it just starts to ***** and the only way to stop it is to:

- Apply brake

- put the clutch in

- accelerate

Is very strange! I have had cars with worn engine mounts before and it is a very simalar sensation but the engine mount problem I have had in the past made a ticking noise when it jerked and also only really happen when I accelerated or decelerated harshly. This problem seems to be only when the revs are low.

I have kinda gotten used to it now and have ajusted my driving style to combat it, but I would like to get it sorted, but no-one on here has a fix even though alot of people seem to have the same problem, apart from Carrera_C who says that valve cleaner helped him - what cleaner make did you buy Carrera_C????

[sotal]

Sy - I've got to say the problem seems worse on your car than mine. Mine will nearly always do it when driving very slow, it can seem impossible to find a balancing point in the middle. If I do nothing a bounces along as if theres too much engine braking or something, then I have to press the pedal down quite far to stop it, by which time it is going to fast and I have to take my foot off the pedal and end up sticking it neutral or putting my clutch in.

I wouldn't say it was a massive problem and I wouldn't have compalined about it. I would have also said it is not just my driving as I drive 2 cars, and the focus doesn't ever do anything like it.

From what I can tell it is worse when going down hill (which in turn doesn't matter as much because I can just roll) and it seems to be the engine braking which causes it to bounce. This would lead me to believe that the engine mounts or gearbox mounts would be a very probably cause.

As for the Cleaner stuff, I am going to stick the bottle of Valvoline in today as my tank is now almost empty. I'll let you know if anything comes from that

[andrewl41]

Well,

It sounds like we all have exactly the same problem. I'm quite sure it will be caused by an engine/gearbox mounting or less probably wear in the drive train some where (gear box, diff, .. ?). I really can't see any engine adative having an effect, I don't believe it to be a problem with the engine.

It is definatly a car *fault* of some kind and not due to an individuals driving as there are too many of us getting the problem who don't experience it in other cars.

It is something that I personally didn't worry about though. As I mentioned before, I had even forgotten it happens as I had adjusted my driving accordingly. I suspect it's one of those things we're better off living with rather than going to large expence trying to analyse. That said, once someone identifies the problem component, I will be changing it :)

Andrew

[sotal]

I agree that it is nothing to worry about (just would be nice to know I guess!)

I also had forgotten it did it and I was just used to it, but after driving the Focus for a week I soon notice it, and it's not a good thing to say the Focus is better at something than the Celica!! :D

[andrewl41]

I agree that it is nothing to worry about (just would be nice to know I guess!)

I also had forgotten it did it and I was just used to it, but after driving the Focus for a week I soon notice it, and it's not a good thing to say the Focus is better at something than the Celica!! :D

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Thinking about it, having driven a few my self, the focus is actually a half decent car imho, that said I agree, it should never out do a toyot at anything!! Celicas Rule!!!

[SyCelicaGT]

Yeah I hear what you are both saying - looks like it is one of those small problems which are near impossable troubleshoot. However, it does really bug me as I consider myself as a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to my motor.

Sotal - Can you keep me posted on how the Valvoline works out for you? Let me know if it makes a differance. Cheers.

[sotal]

Sotal - Can you keep me posted on how the Valvoline works out for you? Let me know if it makes a differance. Cheers.

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Just put it in today, so will keep you posted. The 5 miles I have done since have been no different, but I wouldn't expect anything straight away.

Andrew, yes the Focus is actually a very nice drive, we use it more than the Celica becaus ethe dogs aren't allowed in the Celica :D I did a 500 mile trip in it the other day and I was very comfortable, the only thing I didn't like was the fact that 5th gear doesn't accelerate until you hit hout 85 - what use is that??? That means you have to downshift and adjust the acceleration to move into the fast lane :(

[andrewl41]

I've noticed that about fords in general, just too high geared all round I think.

[sotal]

yeah I had an escort and I would swear the gearbox is the same

[astrocortex]

I've noticed something similar happening with my '97 1.8 over the past two months or so.

When i'm at very low revs (like creeping along in traffic) I sometimes get a very strong, almost violent, juddering through the steering wheel. It only lasts for a short period of time like a few seconds but seeing this thread has made me worry about it a little more.

The car as a whole doesn't seem to vibrate or kangaroo like when you muck up a gear change, it's just strange that this happens at very low revs in this situation.

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned feeling the effects mostly through the steering wheel as opposed to the whole car lurching about. Would it be the the early signs of the engine mounting wearign out or something within the transmission / steering assembly playing up?

[daktari]

yeah I had an escort and I would swear the gearbox is the same

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They had to find something to do with the 40,000 g/boxes they had left over.

[sotal]

OK - Has anyone found anything else out yet with this problem?

I have put the bottle of Valvoline stuff in my Fuel and it doesn't seem to have made any difference yet. I'll give it chance though until the full tank has been used.

Basically from reading back over this I can see the following:

People reckon it's either:

1) A Mount somewhere which has become a little worn which makes a bit of movement

2) Something in the drivetrain which is worn?

3) Something in the engine management or fueling which is causing too much or too little fuel to be used when at low speeds

Number 1 seems to have been put to one side as people would expect a noise to come from it as well.

Number 2 seems to be too hard to check out

So that just leaves number 3 to check.

Has anyone tried reseting the ECU to see if that helps?

Has anyone tried using better fuel (optimax etc) to see if that helps?

Is this just UK Cars or Jap and UK cars? (mines UK)

Has anyone else tried some additives to clean the system out? I know one person had and got positive results. Have these results stayed positive?

I will try reseting my ECU once I've let this full tank of fuel go through with the additive in.

[daktari]

I wouldn`t discount number one on the basis as there`s no noise. You`ve got two scenarios with rubber bushes,

One is oil contamination - which will eventually soften the bush. allowing excessive movement.

The other is aging. Take a look at an old car tyre. Cracked and perished and very hard. The same thing happens with any rubber component. When it gets to this stage it`s not going to be able to absorb shocks and movement nearly as well as a new one.. If at all.

Has anyone had their car from new? At what age/mileage do they start to misbehave? :)

[andrewl41]

I wouldn`t discount number one on the basis as there`s no noise. You`ve got two scenarios with rubber bushes,

One is oil contamination - which will eventually soften the bush. allowing excessive movement.

The other is aging. Take a look at an old car tyre. Cracked and perished and very hard. The same thing happens with any rubber component. When it gets to this stage it`s not going to be able to absorb shocks and movement nearly  as well as a new one.. If at all. 

Has anyone had their car from new? At what age/mileage do they start to misbehave?    :)

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I'm a great advocate of theory 1 and to a much lesser extent, 2. I've actually had a couple of different fuel system cleaning products through my car. I always run a couple of tank fulls through any new car I get just incase it's been sat or something. With this car I noticed no difference as with a full and recent service it was in good shape to start with I guess.

I agree that theory 2 is a mine field really, but changing the engine mountings should be a doable task. Whether it's worth the time and expence though is quite another matter. Does anyone know of a meet in the not to distant future? Perhaps we could explore the problem as a group one day?

astrocortex: I don't feel anything through the steering wheel. Your problem sounds a little different to the one I (we) seem to experience and to be honest a little more serious, though I can't begin to imagine what might be causing it.

[SyCelicaGT]

OK - Has anyone found anything else out yet with this problem?

I have put the bottle of Valvoline stuff in my Fuel and it doesn't seem to have made any difference yet. I'll give it chance though until the full tank has been used.

Basically from reading back over this I can see the following:

People reckon it's either:

1) A Mount somewhere which has become a little worn which makes a bit of movement

2) Something in the drivetrain which is worn?

3) Something in the engine management or fueling which is causing too much or too little fuel to be used when at low speeds

Number 1 seems to have been put to one side as people would expect a noise to come from it as well.

Number 2 seems to be too hard to check out

So that just leaves number 3 to check.

Has anyone tried reseting the ECU to see if that helps?

Has anyone tried using better fuel (optimax etc) to see if that helps?

Is this just UK Cars or Jap and UK cars? (mines UK)

Has anyone else tried some additives to clean the system out? I know one person had and got positive results. Have these results stayed positive?

I will try reseting my ECU once I've let this full tank of fuel go through with the additive in.

←

Sotal:

I am still no further along with the troubleshooting.

I have reset the ECU on several occasions after modifications recently and it made no difference.

I always use Optimax or ultimate unleaded in every tank full so it would not be due to this.

My car is UK too.

I have put in some STP injector cleaner this tank full and am about a 1/3 of the way don the tank. It does not appear to have helped in anyway just yet. Also I have some valve cleaner to add on the next tank full, so I will have to see if this will help in anyway. I do not hold out a great deal of hope for this solving the problem but I had to try it as it only cost a few quid.

As for the theories with engine knocking or transmission problems it could well be this but I do know really have the know-how to troubleshoot these parts of the car. I would appreciate any suggestions to do this. Sorry I can’t be more helpful, I am stumped on this problem!

[RichardCrafts]

Not sure if this helps, but I was suffering from some kind of fuelling problem a while back on my GT4. The car drove fine at low revs, ie I could leave it in second or first and let the revs drop almost to tickover and it would run smoothly. However, from about 2000rpm upwards it bogged terribly, as if it was over-fuelling.

Eventually, a local mechanic traced the problem to an incorrectly set up ICV and TPS. Once he reset everything and cleared all the error codes, the mid-range acceleration was spot on, but I then had the exact same symptoms you are all describing. Even with the most even throttle control, I can't run steadily at less than 2000 in first or second without the car jerking back, almost like a misfire.

Could be that the engine's now running a bit too lean or simply that's the way the car was designed.

If this problem is by fault, rather than behaviour, I would definitely start with the throttle set up. The fact it started exactly when I have the TPS reset indicates it's pretty unlikely to be drivetrain related (or at least I hope it isn't because that gets expensive quickly...).

[SyCelicaGT]

UPDATE!!!

Right... got the car in with my mechanic today as I had the car put in for an MOT as I have a de-cat on there. I got him to look at this problem in more detail and he says this is a problem with the clutch! I did not think the clutch on my car was too bad as the guy I brought it from said he had it replaced a few months before he sold it to me, but the biting point has always been quite, however I just dismissed this as a characteristic of the car as I was told it had a new clutch. However, a second plausible option could have been that the old clutch was replaced with a crappy low quality one which is causing the problem.

Basically he says it is something to do with play in clutch as it is worn or of bad quality he mentioned something about the springs on the clutch contributing to the problem. So I will eventually get round to replacing the clutch how much is this going to cost me, any ideas guys??? And does this sound like a plausible solution?

Also I will probably have to replace all the brakes as they are on the way out too, so I was thinking of upgrading, does anyone have an opinion of a good, cost effective performance brake vendor, I was thinking black diamond, but I know nothing about them really (just that they have a cool name), any views appreciated.

Thanks.

[kirst_ie]

My car has this really abd, but i do not have the cash to sort ot a the mo.

But black diamond brakes are the dogs :censor: , i had them on my Pug 306, it was the best £200 i ever spent. I would recommend them to anyone. They also look good behind your wheels if you have the grooved ones.

The drilled ones look cool too, but am a bit wery as my college lecturer said they could crack if they get to hot.