Gen 7afe Engine Confusion

[dwill]

Hi All

I need to put a new 7AFE engine in my Gen6 ST (big end bearings gone) and thought I had found one in London and had it sent up to Scotland.

But...

The injectors on my engine are on the manifold and on the "new" engine they go direct into the cylinder.

Have I got the wrong engine? import? corolla?

Can I use my old head and the block off the other engine?

Please help as I am not too techy minded - I just love my car and driving it

Thanks

David

[sotal]

There are two 7A-FE engines, the main parts to the engine are exactly the same, but one engine is designed for more performance and one is designed for more economy. The Carina uses a "7A-FE lean burn" engine and the Celica uses a "7A-FE" engine.

Here is some pics of my engine in my 1996 Celica Gen 6 ST

What age is your car? What caused the bearings to go? Did you run low on oil? What mileage had your engine done?

[dwill]

Hi Sotal

Thanks for your reply

The pictures of your engine are the same as mine

Mine is a 1998 ® Gen 6 1.8ST 99,171 miles

Just been to South of France and back on holiday

2000 miles round trip - full service before I went

First day back driving to work - driving quite hard! oil pressure light started flickering and then the engine started making a sound like sticking a big pencil into a big electric fan.

So I have been told I need a new engine - big end bearing!

Annoying thing is that the car runs absolutely fine - apart from the oil light and the noise at around 1500rpm and a few other places on the dial.

Still drives like a dream - but now turns a lot more heads - lol

On the engine query I have been told by the company that supplied the engine that it is an import and that the power output is the same - just the injector location is different.

All I need to do is insert their engine - as sent - add my distributor, injectors - join it all up - and all will be fine.

Can I do this? - swap injectors from one to the other?

[sotal]

I'm no expert but as far as I am aware they are correct with what they say. I believe it is only the injectors and the ECU which makes the difference between engines so if you just stick the main block in it should (fingers crossed) all join up and work.

It must be an American Import though as the !Removed! didn't have the 1.8. Another difference with the US engine was that it had to have two cats on it. Hopefully won't make a difference but the 1st cat was very close to the engine so it may have a slightly different mount for the exhaust (doubt it though)

The reason I asked about oil is that we seem to have figured out that the 7A-FE suddenly starts to use oil, then consumes quite alot! Mine is consuming about 1 litre every 700 miles. From full to empty on the dipstick there is 1.2 litres therefore if they filled it up before you left and you were losing as much as me then you would have easily emptied the oil on a 2000 mile journey :( Bad news is that if you look in your manual Toyota say the car is allowed to use up to 1 litre for every 600 miles :<<:

Where did you get the service done? Was it Toyota?? The reason I ask is did they put a genuine Toyota Oil Filter on?? Toyotas have to have a genuine filter you can't use a Halfords one etc as the Toyota ones have a special valve in them

[mikeb]

It sounds quite different if the injectors mount up to the head instead of the manifold. You can only transfer your injectors if the spacing is exactly the same, otherwise the fuel rail wont line up.

Personally, I would try replacing the big end shells before scrapping the engine. Does the replacement engine have a guaranteed mileage/condition. It might burn more oil than your old one...

[sotal]

Good point mike, it would probably need the head and manifold from your old engine then. Basically you would be ending up with a rebuild to get one good engine out of two. It might be cheaper to a) try and fix the current engine B) just get a bottom half??

[james_corolla_cuthbertson]

Yeah, that sounds like a lean burn injection setup, in which case I doubt the car would function properly with your original ECU.

But seeing as it is your bottom end that is the trouble you may be able just swap the bottom ends over. Although I'd have thought it cheaper and easier to buy and fit a new set of shells as both mikeb and sotal suggest, *but* be sure that these are the only casualties from the lack of oil. I'm not familiar with the A series engines, but I know that some E series had cams that ran straight in the head so once the bearing surface was ruined that was pretty much the end of the head also main bearings usually suffer badly under these circumstances.

Also, be wary that the pistons on your 'new' engine *may* be different due to the different squish carachteristics required for the lean burn process, but if you are swapping the bottoms ends over you will be able to check.

Lean burn engines also use a wide-band oxygen sensor (if that was included with your purchase) which would not be compatible with your ECU.

Do try and get an expert opinion, but with the direct injection, the engine does sound to me like a lean burner.

It's a shame you ended up with a different engine to the one you wanted, perhaps the company would give you a refund or exchange for just the bottom half?

Good luck.

James

[sotal]

I think we are pretty much agreed that you should tell them where to stick their import engine and find another, from a UK model. It's probably going to be easier and cheaper in the long run

Just out of interest have you thought about putting a 2.0 litre in why your at it? Don't know if it's much of a job but I doubt it would cost much more and atleats you get an upgrade (just a shame about insurance hikes!)

[dwill]

Great

It is all starting to make sense to me (I think ) and confirms a lot of what of I had picked up from the net and talking to my mechanic.

So

if I read this all right

1. Send the engine back and try and get a refund

2. Look into getting bearings/shells replaced

3. Try and find a British 7AFE (any ideas where to try?

4. Look at putting in a 2L - is it worth the extra expense? how much extra work involved

Thanks for all your help so far everyone

David

[sotal]

1. yes I just guess it depends on how much it costs you

2. maybe, but a garage can cost more in labour when they get that far in

3. Jap breakers, tcb, internet part search, maybe even eBay

4. Might be too much. You would have to look at whether you need to replace the brakes, suspension, drivetrain/gearbox, exhaust, ECU, Instrument panel etc. I guess it's a nice idea but unless you do it yourself it's probably too much bother and the insurance will be tricky

[dwill]

Success

I have managed to find a complete 1999 7AFE (British Spec) engine and it should be with me by Wednesday

Will let you know if the transplant runs smoothly and how the car runs afterwards (oil, etc)

Thanks for everyones advice, support and help

David

[sotal]

Just out of interest how much did the engine cost??

[Uncle Bob]

There are two 7A-FE engines, the main parts to the engine are exactly the same, but one engine is designed for more performance and one is designed for more economy. The Carina uses a "7A-FE lean burn" engine and the Celica uses a "7A-FE" engine.

Here is some pics of my engine in my 1996 Celica Gen 6 ST

What age is your car? What caused the bearings to go? Did you run low on oil? What mileage had your engine done?

←

Hope i can add some input to the thread, Toyota only make one 7A-FE, the basic block and head are the same, different BHP figures, on different application come from injectors ,manifolds, ECU, exhaust etc.

The 7A-FE learn burn engine was fitted to....

Corolla 1.8.....118 bhp,

Carina-E 1.8.....103 bhp,

Celica ST/SR/LTD...114 bhp

Early Avensis 1.8....108 bhp :) ..

My old Celica SR engine bay....

[mikeb]

Judging by what the original poster stated, there must be some variation between cylinder heads if some cars have fuel injectors at the manifold, and some have port injection.

[Uncle Bob]

Judging by what the original poster stated, there must be some variation between cylinder heads if some cars have fuel injectors at the manifold, and some have port injection.

←

What we need are photo's .

[dwill]

Hi all

Managed to get pictures of the first engine I was sent

This I believe is a Japanese engine

As you can see the injectors go direct into the head and not the manifold

[Uncle Bob]

Hmmm...let me go have a look in the 7A-FE workshop manual :) .

UPDATE

Seems the photo's you have put up are from the 1.8 Corolla, the injector holes are still on the manifold, but very close to the head, you may have to be the club guinea pig to see if the engines are interchangeable :) .

[Tarby777]

The idea of sticking a 2.0 engine in an ST (as mentioned earlier in this thread) reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask - how does a GT feel to drive, compared to an ST? I believe they're a couple of seconds quicker to 60 but - and I know this is a bit of a silly question - are they more fun to drive? I mean, my ST feels quite under-powered although it's a lovely ride, and if the GT is as comfy and feels substantially more powerful, I'd think about switching. And no, a GT4 isn't an option for me!

Is fuel consumption vastly different? I'd be really interested to hear from gen 6 ST and GT owners so we can compare results. My ST now has 58k on the clock and I've kept records of every penny I've spent. Over the last 7000 miles, I've had 370-445 miles from a full tank, averaging 400. Running costs for petrol alone come in at around 10p per mile...

Cheers,

Tarby

[MIP]

The idea of sticking a 2.0 engine in an ST (as mentioned earlier in this thread) reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask - how does a GT feel to drive, compared to an ST? I believe they're a couple of seconds quicker to 60 but - and I know this is a bit of a silly question - are they more fun to drive? I mean, my ST feels quite under-powered although it's a lovely ride, and if the GT is as comfy and feels substantially more powerful, I'd think about switching. And no, a GT4 isn't an option for me!

Is fuel consumption vastly different? I'd be really interested to hear from gen 6 ST and GT owners so we can compare results. My ST now has 58k on the clock and I've kept records of every penny I've spent. Over the last 7000 miles, I've had 370-445 miles from a full tank, averaging 400. Running costs for petrol alone come in at around 10p per mile...

Cheers,

Tarby

←

Me n sotal have pondered this one, but I don't think we'll have a conclusive idea without trying them both out side by side. The GT's obviously quicker, alot more bhp, but it likes its rev's for power. You kinda adjust to staying in a lower gear for longer when you want response out of it, but I find that good fun. I had a 1.1 fiesta before my celica so I still find it mind numbingly powerful. I like that it revs up to 7k, though it could be geared for more acceleration, it'll go up to 70mph in 2nd (~60mph@6k, 70@7k). I don't know what mpg I get out of mine, I'll work it out, but it seems perfectly reasonable. Mine doesn't really burn much oil either.

[sotal]

It made me laugh reading that post from Tarby777

It's reminded me to get the video camera out, I'll try and get a run in it tomorrow to capture a 0-60, my only problem is my clutch seems a bit off at the moment, but I'll try my best.

As long as it's not sunny tommorow I'll take the camera - not sure where to do it though - I'll have a think...

[sotal]

Well I found a nice place to mount the camera. It squashes nicely between the headrest and the seat.

Just got to wait for the roads to hopefully dry out a bit and find a nice quiet road and I will record it for you

[dwill]

Yippee!

My car goes again.

New engine (£375) was successfully inserted last week despite a few scares. The donor car had been in a crash and the drive shaft had gone into the sump -couple of bolts damaged and a chip in a piston - but the garage were confident enough that it was okay so they changed the bolts and the sump and put it in. (£440)

And what a difference...

The car picks up a lot better than before - is quieter, more effortless.

Must upload a picture of it - but the best one I have has a scantily clad girlfriend sprawled over the bonnet and might fall foul of forum guidelines - lol

On the down side - the company that sent me the wrong engine have not returned a penny although they have had that engine back for nearly a week. They have also said that the refund (if/when) will be less £170 quid transit and handling charges.

Thanks to all who offered advice, information and support

David

[Uncle Bob]

Glad its all sorted

[wagonist]

It must be an American Import though as the !Removed! didn't have the 1.8. Another difference with the US engine was that it had to have two cats on it. Hopefully won't make a difference but the 1st cat was very close to the engine so it may have a slightly different mount for the exhaust (doubt it though)

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but a link was posted from another.

This information is wrong.

The !Removed! did get a 1.8.

It was available in the Corolla, Corona, Caldina, Carina, Corona Premio, plus others

I knew a guy over there who had imported a 96 1.8 Leanburn Caldina back home with him.

[sotal]

Sorry! I was assuming it was from a celica :P