Torque As Opposed To Bhp

[admanirv]

looking at recent dyno figures and fitting de cats and manifold aslognm with relcoated air filters,

I have few questions, firslty i always go by the moto "torque wins races, bhp sells cars".

I maybe wrong but i cant no point out that torue figures seem to have shot down with the advents of these mods

for example to yaris t sport standard has 105 lb/ft @ 4200rpm,

then why do some of the dynos like rossnovas and charlies (sorry to use example but im confused) have figuires like 99 lb/ft @ 5190,and rossnova 104.9 @ 5000 rpm .

Or is it that a standard t sport has lower then these torque levels above at higher revs (say over 4200 revs ,as quoted by the above dynos.

I just feel allthough the bhp has gone up then toruque is down, see my moto above, plus im a little confused So what are the disadvantages of these and at the end of the day is a de cat and manifold worth is performance (not interested in sound).

i presume you get higher power levels high up with mods but lose lower end, isnt that a bit of a trade off?

thanks

[knightrider]

i dont know my torque neither does earpl but i reckon thats one reason why my cars quite quick but only 125 bhp

[earpl]

its not a case of one or the other,they relate to each other. the thing that you forget is that the yaris is mass produced, the figures the quote are an average of a percentage of the cars produced that they acctually test. you could buy ont thats 10ft/lbs up on the figures or get one thats 10ft/lbs down on the figures.

as far as performance goes you need both.

oh lee, i think its cause it doesn't weigh out :P + your the only person on here who knows how to drive it properly. its like you and the car are the same.

[jaxx]

read me

i suggest people read the above link and appreciate how in depth the science and math is when your talking about torque and BHP

they are too very complex variables within how an engine works, not just a couple of easy to quote figures

torque is 'turning force' ie the amount of force that is transfered through a rotating shaft from end to end, from the supplying energy to the final drive

BHP is the amount of energy and engine can produce to provide the turning force... but does not directly affect it in the terms of, more BHP = More torque

you have to start concidering inertia of the engine and the amount of potential energy stored in components of the engine in which it is then transfered from on source to another

[minidoughty]

as long as its goes NNNNNEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW i don't mind.

[Woody27]

So how can you have a higher torque than bhp if the bhp powers the torque?

[Black Knight]

Have a read of this thread. I'm not typing it all in again (you'll see why when you read it) and Nrgizerbunny makes some very good points that make the whole thread easier to understand

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.p...41190&hl=Torque

[admanirv]

Have a read of this thread. I'm not typing it all in again (you'll see why when you read it) and Nrgizerbunny makes some very good points that make the whole thread easier to understand

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.p...41190&hl=Torque

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ah excellent still a litte confusing but getting my head around it, now i understand why the yaris has short gear ratio.

cool

cheers

[earpl]

come on sionic. get with it :P

[admanirv]

come on sionic. get with it :P

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ill scionic you!

[zebidi]

how many times must i tell you. fool!

torque equals acceleration power.

BHP equals top speed.

stop living in BHP aka max power land people. please!

knight rider has same mods as everyone, but maybe HIS particular engine has responded more to the torque rather than the bhp side of tuning. unique one might say but every engine that comes off the line is unique.

torque is what we are looking for people. not bhp.

there are certain mods to raise certain attributes. i.e mods that increase torque more than bhp or bhp more than torque. but bhp (top speed) is very hard to attain satisfying results. i think its like 30 bhp to so many little mph. I cant remember. but torque is the 0-60 figure everyone is looking for.

please peeps, stop living in MAX POWER land.

[jaxx]

how many times must i tell fools?

torque equals acceleration power.

BHP equals top speed.

stop living in BHP aka max power land people. please!

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dude youve just quoted max power outright!

torque = the amount of turning force from the crank to get things moving

BHP = the energy use to create the torque

Gearing ratios = Top speed and accelration values

:P

[Woody27]

This kind of talk annoys me :P I honestly dont know enough of the science to comment on it but would like to learn but then lots of people come along talking different versions all claiming the last guys an idiot!

Btw i think zebidi was trying to say torque improves acceleration whereas bhp usually affects the top speed more but i understand that isnt ultimately what controls them (gear ratios control them like jaxx said). Zebidi's comment i think was a rule of thumb kind of thing rather than an increase in bhp is proportional to a rise in top speed.

Anyway basically you need both torque and bhp in an ideal world but some people prefer more of one or the other?

My question:

I understand lightening the fly wheel decreases inertia increasing rev rise and fall and also aids bhp? But at the same time doesnt it decrease torque as the flywheel loses its weighty momentum. Therefore is lightening the flywheel a bad idea? Surely wont it make going up hills a lot harder or are the changes between stock Flywheel and aftermarket road Flywheel so small that it gives a small increase in bhp and small decrease in torque that isnt really noticeable as being a loss of anything?

Hope this makes sense as is a bit of a long rant in the morning that i cant be bothered to check :P

[RossP]

Yes, normally when going up hills, a lightened flywheel can cause a loss in power

[admanirv]

how many times must i tell fools?

torque equals acceleration power.

BHP equals top speed.

stop living in BHP aka max power land people. please!

knight rider has same mods as everyone, but maybe HIS particular engine has responded more to the torque rather than the bhp side of tuning. unique one might say but every engine that comes off the line is unique.

torque is what we are looking for people. not bhp.

there are certain mods to raise certain attributes. i.e mods that increase torque more than bhp or bhp more than torque. but bhp (top speed) is very hard to attain satisfying results. i think its like 30 bhp to so many little mph. I cant remember. but torque is the 0-60 figure everyone is looking for.

please peeps, stop living in MAX POWER land.

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not necessarily its much more complicated than that, the two work together, the t sport hs more torque than than bhp so explain that one (its quite uncommon to have equal or more torque than bhp), of course this is due to gearing ratios in the t sport.

Im not sayin your wrong.

Charlie has had less torque but increased accelaration in his 1/4mile look at chris 1/4mile compared to charlies.

Im too annoyed, but im learning about this, im more inclined to go along with earlp explantion, as i ask a few tuning and ford motorpsort experts where i live, and they shared the same view.

I also dont understand that does torque lb/ft incease as you get highier in the revs in the t sport or not?

Theres just so many variables and factors involced.

i bet lee's torque has gone down a bit.

[earpl]

personally i think he's full of **** so a CAT 775 40 tonne dump truck producing around 750bhp should have a higher top speed than my little sewing machine of a car???

ha ha sir, i laugh in your face

more like MAX FLOWER!

[alanbradley]

personally i think he's full of **** so a CAT 775 40 tonne dump truck producing around 750bhp should have a higher top speed than my little sewing machine of a car???

ha ha sir, i laugh in your face

more like MAX FLOWER!

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I'm glad someone's said what I'm thinking!

Power, torque and speed (especially engine speed...) are not interdependent - they all depend on the characteristics of the specific engine, gearbox and application.

The whole "the torque number's bigger than the power number" comparison means nothing - what if I quoted power in kW rather than bhp?

A

[admanirv]

personally i think he's full of **** so a CAT 775 40 tonne dump truck producing around 750bhp should have a higher top speed than my little sewing machine of a car???

ha ha sir, i laugh in your face

more like MAX FLOWER!

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whos full of ****?

[earpl]

zebidi

[admanirv]

Funny old buisness this torque and bhp stuff.

It goes faster so thats all im interested in :)

I think im just going to get the little bugger done, then i can make my own mind up, if it was worth doing.

My excuse is, your only live once!

[zebidi]

torque is common to be higher than bhp, tomei can tune your engine to have a phenomenal amount of torque but not much increased bhp. you can have a lot more of one than the other in respects. but regularly both seem to increase at the same time and rate. (depending on what tuning has been done)

750 bhp truck will not have as high speed as ur whatever car because of its weight and aerodynamic capabilities. if you can stick the truck engine into a regular car then you would see the difference.

torque to weight ratio.

bhp to weight ratio.

aerodynamics plays a big role in top speed too why do top speed machines always go through many tests to make sure i like beans so the wind passes smoothly? why does slipstreaming work?

im not saying that ALL you need is torque. you cant just make the torque go up without increasing the bhp. even if you didnt want to you would be stuck with increased bhp. but torque is what you want to increase more.

[jaxx]

these are all major variables all affected by other major variables, there is NO simple answer.

basically your best bet is to aim for something and then find the best route there, if torque drops when you increase BHP its more than likely that peak BHP us being produced at a lower rev range

its a very complex matter

[earpl]

closed due to the ammount of **** being talked