Gen 6 St Driniking Oil. Another Saga

[Cubic Incubi]

can anyone shed more light on the ST drinking oil saga.

if so please add to this thread http://www.celica-club.co.uk/cgibin/phpbb2...pic.php?t=34125

cheers

[sotal]

I just posted my first post there - even though I joined in January!

I just but a summary of my findings. Sounds like a fair few people are suffering with the same problem as me!

[mikeb]

It has to be stem seals or oil rings. Without replacing one or the other and curing the problem, it's impossible to know for sure which one is the culprit. But once one person has found it, it's likely to be the same for all the other 7a-fe engines out there. It is also quite possible to have a real oil burner of an engine that doesn't smoke or even smell oily. I once had a car that used a pint of oil every 300 miles, but never smoked (although it did have a terrible lack of compression on one cylinder which I later found out was due to a bent con rod - dunno what the previous owner had done to it :o ).

As I have said before, a compression test does not tell you anything about the condition of the oil rings. You can get good cylinder pressures and still have shot oil rings. Maybe the 7a-fe has a piston cooling problem which would cause the oil rings to stiffen and become less effective over time.

It seems that the problem is occuring on low mileage engines, which would suggest it's more likely to be stem seals. But then the quantities of oil these engines are burning, I find it hard to believe that stem seals would let so much oil past. A knowledgeable garage should be able to replace the stem seals without removing the cylinder head. It can be done on most modern engines. In which case changing the stem seals would be the first thing to try.

Feel free to quote my post on the celica club, I'm not a registered user over there.

[sotal]

I bet the stem seals are still more expensive than just changing the oil all the time. I only got one quote and that was £800 to open up the engine to have a look. Then they would quote to do any repairs needed, or quote to close the engine back up again.

That was a toyota garage though and I'm guessing they didn't want to do it. I guess it would bother me a lot more if I had clouds of smoke coming out of the back but as I got a perfect emissions result for my MOT and I never get any smoke I can't moan too much - just wonder where the stuff goes. I mean a litre every 600 miles is a fair amount of oil to just disappear. I mean approx 15 litres of the stuff has past through somewhere since I've had the car. That's over 3 gallons of oil gone somewhere. If the cat was burning it so you don't see any blue smoke then I would have thought the cat would be getting choked up by now and the emissions results would reflect this??

Surely I should be able to see some signs somewhere of 3 gallons of oil that has gone missing!!!!

[mikeb]

A good independent garage who knows what they're doing, should be able to replace the stem seals for ~£250 (based on my guestimate of £50 parts, and £200 labour).

The car I mentioned in my earlier post didn't have a cat, and there still was no visible oil smoke or smell.

[sotal]

But Surely 3 gallons of oil would leave a trace somewhere??

[daktari]

I used a compressed air valve compressor on my old BMW (12 valves) and it took me about 3 hours start to finish. The tool cost me £20 - thankyou eBay and parts about £40 including a new rocker gasket. So if you know someone thats got one of those and an air compressor it could work out quite cheap. And it might well solve your problem!! :D

PS.. If it`s any help you can borrow mine.

[mikeb]

I used a compressed air valve compressor on my old BMW (12 valves) and it took me about 3 hours start to finish. The tool cost me £20 - thankyou ebay and parts about £40 including a new rocker gasket. So if you know someone thats got one of those and an air compressor it could work out quite cheap. And it might well solve your problem!!  :D 

PS.. If it`s any help you can borrow mine. 

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I don't think i'd be brave enough to risk doing it that way myself. I can just imagine having a power cut, or losing air pressure at the wrong time!

Here's a guide for doing in on a 2jz-gte (supra) engine. Most of it should be applicable to other engines.

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/valve_stem/index.html

[daktari]

Good link mike. So who``s going to be 1st to try it?????? :D

[sotal]

Not sure I dare try that, I see if I can convince any of my more mechanically minded mates to think about it!

I've got an air compressor - I'd just need the tool!

Is mike's way a longer way of doing it without air? (couldn't see a compressor anywhere??)

[daktari]

Yeah there are various ways of keeping the valve seated. Really old wrinkly mechs will tell you about the rope trick, Which basicall involves feeding rope through thte spark plug hole untill you cant get anymore in. Then turning the engine over till it effectively compresses the rope into the combustion chamber. Trouble with that is i`ve seen the rope they have lying around in w/shops. Buggered if i want any of that in my engine.

Not sure how the chap in mikes link did it though.

[mikeb]

Yeah there are various ways of keeping the valve seated. Really old wrinkly mechs will tell you about the rope trick, Which basicall involves feeding rope through thte spark plug hole untill you cant get anymore in. Then turning the engine over till it effectively compresses the rope into the combustion chamber. Trouble with that is i`ve seen the rope they have lying around in w/shops. Buggered if i want any of that in my engine. 

Not sure how the chap in mikes link did it though. 

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Yeah they used the 'indian rope trick' in the link I posted. And I ain't an old wrinkly mechanic! :P A bit of rope in your engine is no cause for concern.

It just sounds safer to me than relying on compressed air to stop the valves falling in - if that happens it's big trouble.

[=IWM= Spectre]

My r plate (71000) has had so much oil since i bought it 4 months ago iv'e lost count of the 5 litre cans iv'e bought but its around 8or9 so think iv'e got a nice repair bill coming my way at some point :( i'm not that mechanically minded to do the job and cant get any of me mates to touch it lol

[celica dave]

might be cheaper to sell my st and buy a gt gen6 or save the money i waste on oil and get a gt4 and spend it on petrol

[sotal]

I was starting to think along the same lines - sell the ST and buy a GT

[Tarby777]

I was starting to think along the same lines - sell the ST and buy a GT

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You and me both! I was initially v.happy with the ST (I had a Honda CR-V before) but I'm sick of shelling out for oil, and it's underpowered. I think the hunt for a GT has just begun...

[sotal]

It just brings us back to the question of whether or not the GT is fast enough to be worth it!

My guess is that I would be slightly disapointed with the performance gains of going to a GT. So then the only point to it is to stop having an oil problem.

I've been looking at the difference between the GT and the ST with another member (MIP) and yes as expected the GT is quicker but I don't think it's enough quicker to be worth the change. I think I'll try and be sensible and winter the ST out, then sell it privatley when the nicer weather comes again. Then ride the bike for a while whilst I dream up what to have next.

My Current top choices are:

1. Early gen 7 Celica 190 (they've grown on me!!)

2. The oldest possible of the newest shape Rav4's

3. Gen 6 GT4 <-- starting to go against this one - starting to get too old, can get a gen 7 for the same money - never get to use the performance etc

4. Lexus IS200

Only problem is all of those are £6k+ and I can't afford that! Might have to stick with putting oil in for a bit longer....oh well....goes off to dream some more.....

[mikeb]

Look at it this way: the difference between the 2ltr and the 1.8ltr engine is about 10%. The difference in performance is more like 30%. Have a go in a GT, I'm sure you would notice a big difference. And the money you save on oil can go towards the extra petrol!

[sotal]

How do you work out the performance difference being 30%?? The bhp difference is probably 30% but I don't think the performance is 30% difference. I would guess more like 10% maybe 20%?

I'll see how things go anyway. I still thnk I'll probably sell mine early next year maybe around April. Then I'll slowly look for something. If I still have no spare cash then I'll get a GT for whatever money I get from the ST. Might even be able to afford a newer one seeing as the ST's seem to fetch a little bit more??

[celica dave]

Look at it this way: the difference between the 2ltr and the 1.8ltr engine is about 10%. The difference in performance is more like 30%. Have a go in a GT, I'm sure you would notice a big difference. And the money you save on oil can go towards the extra petrol!

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have been in both the st feels quicker due to gearing and beter low end torque but looses out above 80mph so perhaps a 190 might be the answer!

[sotal]

When do you need to go above 80mph?? From what you are saying on normal roads staying at the speed limit the ST feels quicker?? This is what I was worried about and why I'm fairly convinced that I want something a bit faster still!

The 190 is really starting to grow on me!

[mikeb]

have been in both the st feels quicker due to gearing and beter low end torque but looses out above 80mph so perhaps a 190 might be the answer!

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I'm lost for words. Quick everyone sell your GTs and buy an ST! :hokus-pokus: They 'feel' faster, even with that wheezy old stroked out oil burning excuse for an engine.

[sotal]

You sarcastic git

[celica dave]

have been in both the st feels quicker due to gearing and beter low end torque but looses out above 80mph so perhaps a 190 might be the answer!

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I'm lost for words. Quick everyone sell your GTs and buy an ST! :hokus-pokus: They 'feel' faster, even with that wheezy old stroked out oil burning excuse for an engine.

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sorry mate! there not as fast on paper but feels it due to engine design and gearing .

[celica dave]

a answer to our problem from a top toyota man :hokus-pokus:

please read what shutty has to say.

http://www.celica-club.co.uk/cgibin/phpbb2...=34125&start=20