St185 Celica Gt4

[AdamG]

I've just had a look at why the GT4 won't start, seems the cam-belt has snapped.

It looks like there's no way to change the belt without removing the engine, is that right??

I really don't know if I can take up such a project, It might just be time to scrap it.

Is there much demand for bits? It has a Full Leather Interior, recent recon turbo from Fensport and all the usual Jap-import GT4 bits.

[sotal]

I know it's a different car but mine was only £80 to have a new belt fitted. Ask around at a few local garages

I wouldn't have thought you would need to drop the engine out, sometimes you have to undo a couple of bolts and jack the engine up from underneath. Daktari or Mikeb will probably be able to help more

[adamgt]

i would be more worried about the damage its done

[mikeb]

The good news is that the 3s-gte is a non interference engine, so you shouldn't have any bent valves. All it will need is a new belt fitting (and possibly a tensioner).

The cam belt is a !Removed! of a job due to restricted access. I think the trick is to undo the RH engine mount and jack the engine up to get better access. If you don't fancy it yourself (and I wouldn't blame you), a toyota dealer should do it for under £200. It's more expensive than the ST due to different parts and labour costs.

[AdamG]

I was hoping it would be a non-interference engine. I guessed it might be as it was turbo so it would be lower compression(if that makes sense?)

I might have a crack at jacking up the engine, I suppose if It doesn't work I'm still in the same situation so nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Thanks for the advice guys.

Any other things I should look for when i'm doing it?

[GTForbes]

replace all the pullies the tensioner and think about the water pump too whilst your in there,

it's not an easy job by all means, i got a pro to do it and it still took him 5-6 hours,

no chance would you pay under £200 for toyota to do it.

you can do it with the engine in but it is very restricted! lots of manipulating int engine around to get at bolts etc.

[sotal]

Toyota wanted lots more to do my cam belt on the ST it was more than £200, so it would definatley be more at the Toyota Garages for yours. Mine was just a local mechanic but he said it was £80 for ST or the GT (didn't mention GT4 though)

If you are thinking about scrapping it then you have nothing to lose so go for it!

[GTForbes]

if your thinking of just scrapping it i'll take it off your hands ;)

[AdamG]

if your thinking of just scrapping it i'll take it off your hands ;)

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The question is, how much is it worth?

I don't wanna lose to much on it, but also I don't want it sitting outside my house in pieces for a year while i sell off parts. :(

[mikeb]

There should be very little (if any) difference between changing the cam belt on a GT and GT4. I am convinced Mr T do the job for under £200. The retail price for the belt is ~£40, and they should be able to do it in about 2.5 hours of labour (they should be well practised at doing this job on a toyota engine as it is routine maintenance, and they ought to know all the tricks and shortcuts). An independent garage may take slightly longer, but their hourly rate will be lower, and should work out cheaper.

[daktari]

Your right Mike. 3 or so hours and a few grazes on your knuckles. It is very tight but a little patience will help.

Tip: Obviously you have to undo the right hand engine mount. But if you remove the front engine mount and slacken (Or if your feeling particularly brave remove, it`ll be a pain lining it back up) the rear engine mount you will get a tad more lift. Makes getting the lower cambelt cover bolts off a bit easier. The other nuisance is the crankshaft pulley. ..... The bolt is :censor: tight. Best to get that slackened off 1st.

[MIP]

My local garage could do the 7A-FE and the 3S-FE, but not the 3S-GE or GT4. I think space is alot more tight with the GE/GTE and the belts much harder to get to, a more expensive job.

[mikeb]

The other nuisance is the crankshaft pulley. ..... The bolt is  :censor: tight. Best to get that slackened off 1st.

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They are indeed rather tight. You might be able to slacken it at the start of the job by chocking the wheels and selecting a gear. Although I have a feeling that the clutch will slip before the bolt comes loose! Mine even resisted the impact gun for about 5 minutes! Toyota must use magic loctite.

[daktari]

I was begining to think mine had been welded on. Ended up with the car in gear with my mate standing on the brake and using a 3/4 drive impact socket and breaker bar with 5 foot of scaffold tube for leverage ......... that sorted it.

[GT-Four NZ]

Mine did the same thing. I was driving along and the car just died a slow and smooth death. Couldn't work it out for a while. You are correct in thinking that it is a non interference engine... thank god as my forged pistons were under 20k old. But the reason why mine snapped was that the auto tensioner let go. Belt was only 30k old but if that isn't a good prompt to replace eveerything that you can (besides the horror labour to get in there!) then I don't know what is. Good idea to replace...

Timing belt, water pump, auto tensioner, tensioner, idler (can't remember if I had one or not), cam and crank seals and for what they are worth the auxilary drive belts.

I didn't see much change from $750 (NZD) and I got a deal on the parts.

[AdamG]

I braved the pouring rain earlier and removed the Alternator & Power Steering Resevoir. And with the help of a 10mm Ratchet spanner, managed to get the upper belt cover off.

The Belt isn't snapped, it just felt loose when I pushed on it. It is a bit frayed though so it's possibly stretched and that might be why the timing has slipped out.

I'm going to attempt removing the old belt, I've supported the engine, I have undone the side engine mount and have a little movement. How mush doi I need to move the engine up by? I guess I need to remove/loosen another mount, is that the rear one?

My Local parts place (EAS/Camberley Auto Factors) say they can get a belt for £17 plus the VAT, it sounds pretty cheap but i'm going to make sure i get the old one off so I can compare before I buy.

I might be picking up a 16v Golf tomorrow so I think i'm gonna be having a busy few weekends/evenings just working on cars.

[mikeb]

I don't remember having to move the PAS reservoir?

I suspect that 90% of cam belt failures on these engines are down to the tensioner failing, which would match your report on the belt. It is very rare for a belt to snap completely, usually the teeth come off at one point. And they are impossible to stretch. I did mine without jacking up the engine, but I did have the cylinder head off at the same time, which might have made access easier.

[AdamG]

Probably wasn't essential to move it, I just wanted a little move room to manouveur. (pic just for reference, not my car)

[daktari]

You need to completely remove the front engine mount. It`s to the right of the exhaust. And slacken off the rearmost engine mount. Then slowly jack the engine up at the cambelt end. Watch out for stretched pipes and cables. Disconnect any that look like they may snag or break. This should give you enough room to undo the upper bolts of the lower cover. Then lower the engine all the way down as far as you can. This should allow you enough room at the bottom end. You might have to move it up and down a few times before you complete the job. :)

[AdamG]

Just took off the front wheel to access the bolt on the crank pulley (I see what you mean about it being tight )

Found the drivers side CV boot is split also so thought i'd do that while i'm under there. Then I find my 30mm socket isn't deep enough, I'm just gonna see if i can find a deep 30mm impact socket without having to remortgage my house to afford it.

Is there any way to lock the drivetrain/crank to stop it turning when you undo that crank pulley? Somewhere you can jam a bar or screwdriver?

Also, If I put the car in reverse and put a spanner on the crank pulley and a socket on the hub-nut, will that hold everything static so I can loosen the hub-nut?

[mikeb]

There should be a hole in the bottom pully that is intended for using a screwdriver to lock the crank while you undo the bolt. However, it really is a token gesture (or a practical joke by the desingers!). I stopped trying when it became obvious that the screwdriver was going to break before the bolt came loose. If your brakes are really good you might be able to get someone to lock the transmission up that way whilst you undo the bolt.

Not sure using the hub nut is a good idea though?

[AdamG]

Good news is, Deep 30mm Impact Socket £8.50

Bad News, CV Boot kit not available from motor factors, Toyota want £57 +VAT.

More Bad News, Guy at toyota insists the 3sGTE engine IS an "interference engine" so there is every chance that there could be bent valves, he said the last non-interference engine toyota made was in a Camry in the mid-eighties.

Could be crap but dunno 4sure why he'd lie, he could just be clueless.

I'm now leaning towards scrapping the car,

£60+ for a CV Boot Kit!!!!! :censor: Reminds me why I still love my Scirocco after all these years. :D

[mikeb]

Guy at toyota doesn't know what he's talking about. Certainly, people on here have had cambelts fail at high speed without causing damage to their engine internals - and that's on N/A engines.

I don't know if inlet and exhaust valves could interfere with each other, which could be messy. But I would have thought that quite unlikely. Turn the crank until you have a piston at TDC, then gently turn the cams round one at a time. If it 'interferes' you can prove it that way.

Try cheap toyota parts or buypartsby on the internet for a CV boot. Nost sure how fast either of them can deliver though.

[AdamG]

Well i'm in no major rush for it.

I'm going back outside in a minute to put the brakes and wheel back on so I can roll it back into the corner.

I've gotta make room cos i'm picking up a 16v Golf tonight and i'll prob be working on that on saturday.

Oh yeah, I'll be up at Santa Pod on Sunday, taking the Volvo (Rental Car) up the strip :P

[sotal]

All my data CD's show all the Celica Engines as being interference, but I think they are only interference under specific conditions, if a number of random things happen they can become interference but the majority of the time you will get away with it - enough people on here have got away with it already!