Rear Upper Strut Brace

[chrisb]

Does anyone know of a rear upper strut brace other than the OMP model?

Thanks

CB

[Woody27]

Nope :P I dont think another exists unless you make your own! whats wrong with OMP one?

[raywong]

i've heard and seen a few, but none of them is avaliable in the uk i'm afraid, i've got the OMP one and they just do the job well

Ray

[clarky]

Chris - give Kevin at envy a call - he sold me one that I sold to Lee.

The reason I didnt keep it was that it needed drilling and bolting to the rear strut towers in the boot. I didnt want to go this way as I occasionally need to use the whole boot - the OMP one can be removed in 2 minutes as it just attaches to the existing strut tower tops.

Hope this helps?

[RossP]

As Ray has said there are other ones available, but the OMP one is probably your best bet at the moment

[chrisb]

i've heard and seen a few, but none of them is avaliable in the uk i'm afraid, i've got the OMP one and they just do the job well

Ray

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Can you give me any info on these products?

Makes?Websites?

CB

[Pascal]

Just a lil detail. Our cars don't have struts in the back. They have separate springs and dampers.

That said, there's a sensible difference between tying in pieces of the unibody to strenghten the structure.... like a strut brace would do in the front.... and tying together the damper pins, which are centered in the tower by soft rubber bushings, and are expected to move independently from each other. Like I said, it's just a little detail. ;)

[raywong]

www.strutbracer.co.uk is the website u wanted. the seller always hav a few on eBay, but i havent seen any at the moment!

HTH

Ray

[vladrulli]

there were a couple of models in germany... steel, alu and carbon... don't remember the site I found them on sorry... just search for "yaris domstrebe" (think that is correct) on google

[knightrider]

Just a lil detail. Our cars don't have struts in the back. They have separate springs and dampers.

That said, there's a sensible difference between tying in pieces of the unibody to strenghten the structure.... like a strut brace would do in the front.... and tying together the damper pins, which are centered in the tower by soft rubber bushings, and are expected to move independently from each other. Like I said, it's just a little detail.  ;)

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get this then!

30 quid delivered and its yours with all new fixings, its polished aluminum

[clarky]

My apologies Pascal - whatever they're called and whatever they're supposed to do I find that the OMP rear upper brace makes the car handle better - at least in my opinion.

[Rich_Lambo]

if you get in contact with darkside performance.co.uk they made a custom one for mine and podwer coated it as well looks wiked as well, goes well wid da beans!!! init!

[Pascal]

My apologies Pascal - whatever they're called and whatever they're supposed to do I find that the OMP rear upper brace makes the car handle better - at least in my opinion.

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How is it attached to the car? Is it simply bolted onto the damper top pins in the back?

You'd have to define "better" as well. What did you feel?

Forcing the damper pins to move in sync simply reduces some of the suspension's idependence a bit further. On rough surfaces (creasing the curbs going around a racetrack for instance) it would be detrimental. On the street it probably won't hurt much. I guess if you've felt a difference it's all good, but that's not something I would install on my car. I am however running the rear TRD under brace, which slots onto the frame rails, bolts into the floorpan at 4 points, and then through the rear beam pivot points on each side. It's a very well designed piece that effectively strenghtens the car's body, without hindering suspension movement.

The worst that can happen to you is that since the pins are located inside the tower by a pressed rubber bushing, a violent impact to one side only could cause the pin to shear right off, since they were never meant to be connected laterally together. I've seen that happen on a poorly designed front "strut brace" that only tied in the pins. Chances are slim, but since I don't understand what positive effect such a brace could have on suspension geometry and dynamics, I'm not getting one.

If anything, I'd get one like posted above, which really ties in the towers.

[Pascal]

By the way, I'm not here to rag on people who believe in these parts, nor on the businesses that produce and market them.

I am simply technically inclined, and my car isn't a "parts hanger". If I add something I research what it does, and I need to understand the physics and engineering behind it.

Making a car's body stiffer tortionally has documented benefits that can easily be explained. I can do that for those interested. Tying in damper pins together doesn't do that at all. I have never seen a race car with its damper pins connected together by a bar. Not because the builders never though of that, but rather because they know they shouldn't be connected.

Just my thoughts on this.

[clarky]

Well me and my 'parts hanger' are happy - thanks for your input

[Woody27]

Rich Lambo, you got a pic of your custom one? how much they charge you for a custom one? how is it fitted to the body? onto the suspension pins as the OMP ones is or screwed into the metal surrounding those pins?

O Pascal, on the front do you want the pins with the body attached to the strut bar then? but on rear only the body? im confused now!

[jaxx]

being as the yaris is made of tinfoil and there an unbelieavable amount of flex in the body especially the back end that any form of bracing will improve the structural geometry of the vehicle

as the cars stood still itll retain its 'perfect geometrical shape' as determined by the toyota design monkeys, but they didnt bother helping it retain that shape when it goes round a corner, such that the body flexes in all manners and shapes

as a proven test aswell ive compared the likes of my own car (totally standard) against clarkys 'parts hanger' as you refer it :P and there is a superb difference ESPECIALLY on the rear

taking corners at a lairy pace and you can here the bodywork creak, especially in the region of the tailgate, as you can hear the seals rubbing together, in clarks car it felt firm and rigid around the corners, felt a lot more confident at being given some beans

and i retrospect i assumed clarky had coilovers which i questioned after the run and was informed only springs were present on std shocks! and this car felt miles tighter than when mine was running a full koni adjustable setup

race cars will not reflect on this sort of mod for a car as they have much more 'industrial' bracing which was explained before, these cars will supplement seam welding, roll cages and chassis braces, this makes the body unfeasably taught

this is NOT a good idea on a road car as some of that flax helps with the comfort of the suspension if the bodywork were that ridgid for use on the road it would be unbearable

therefore simple bracing allows the counter action of some of the torsional forces to endure a more 'interesting' drive and yet retain the quality of the ride

[Woody27]

Yeah but isnt pascal saying something about the OMP one not actually attaching to the body but instead the two strut pins? anyone got a proper picture of OMP rear strut so i can actually understand :P

[Pascal]

I don't recall typing that I thought Clarky's car was a parts hanger... I don't know where you guys got that, but that's not what I meant at all. Was only referring to my own approach when working on my own car. And I am quite sure that Clarky's car handles superbly as well.

I agree entirely that a form of bracing is beneficial in several areas of the NCP13 platform. I even pointed out that I am running a brace back there that is more extreme than most people have, although it's hidden under the car and not on display in the boot.

I am simply supporting that from an engineering standpoint, tying in damper pins does NOT have the exact same effect as tying in pieces of the unibody. I don't understand what you find insulting or diminishing in that? On my car the damper pins move a LOT. My suspension is VERY stiff, a lot more than you guys have. The damper pins move so much they make the plastic caps pop off and jump in the air when I hit a bump. The last thing you want is to have a part like that connected to another one.

As a side note, to take care of this movement we are in the process of machining custom bushings to replace the OEM rubber ones on my car. I'm not tying them to each other though.

[jaxx]

bracing that point of the car is going to retain torsional momental movement point to a central pivot point though

therefore retaining the same ideal camber angle at all times, i doubt just adding uprated bushes will solve anything in that way, yes itll help in a minor stance, and only movvement within the bush itself, but not to the degree of retaining the main extreme point of movement

[Ryan1985]

The damper pins move so much they make the plastic caps pop off and jump in the air when I hit a bump.

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So thats why mine are always lying about on the boot floor!

Cheers for clearing that up!

[clarky]

actually mine isnt 'on display' in the boot - its painted matt black to try and detract from the fact that its there.

[Pascal]

So thats why mine are always lying about on the boot floor!

Cheers for clearing that up!

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Haha, no problem!

actually mine isnt 'on display' in the boot - its painted matt black to try and detract from the fact that its there.

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You're taking this the wrong way, I'm stating that the part I have cannot be seen, whereas yours... can! Nothing more. It's not like I'm one to diss parts based on looks anyways, I love performance parts.

Jaxx, I never stated that bushings would serve the same function. I do NOT want them to serve the same function. I support that damper pins should NOT be linked together.

Case in point, your statement:

bracing that point of the car is going to retain torsional momental movement point to a central pivot point though

Well the damper pins are NOT part of "the car". They are part of the suspension assembly, and they are linked to "the car" by soft rubber. When you tie them together, you are forcing them to move together, but it's still the rubber bushing that's applying any kind of force to the chassis, since the bar is effectively suspended (and isolated) from the chassis itself.

I support that while it's probably not going to break a street car, those bars are not meant to be. Again, I have never seen a race car of any fashion setup with one of those. If there was any benefit to be had, you BET they would use them. Bars should attach to the body, and not the damper pins.

Besides, the point is moot since on a car with a torsion beam rear axle like the Yaris, lateral loading does not occur at the point where the damper meets the body, but rather at the pivot point of the axle, further forward. This is very different from the front McPherson struts. In the back, the damper is subjected to vertical axis impact only, with minor torsional load under extreme uneven left / right terrain variations, something like off-roading.

[Pascal]

I'm not here to start a fight, I know you guys like these bars and many people probably have them. I'm merely trying to discuss technical aspects here.

[Rich_Lambo]

Rich Lambo, you got a pic of your custom one? how much they charge you for a custom one? how is it fitted to the body? onto the suspension pins as the OMP ones is or screwed into the metal surrounding those pins?

O Pascal, on the front do you want the pins with the body attached to the strut bar then? but on rear only the body? im confused now!

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its screwed in the the suspension pins mate best pic i have is

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/lam.../Photo-0065.jpg

look just above subs u can see it