Faster Car Required... Any Recommendations?

[mikeb]

Ohhh you !Removed!    :P  Im sure you are right, the tvr cant be any worse than an Esprit for reliability. But in all fair ness either car will prove trouble free if you take a lot of care with it and treat it well 

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Anything is more reliable than an Esprit! Even the Titanic was. :P

[IanGT]

I'm same as you coocki, MPG is so poor in our SS2's lol in hopefully getting MR2 turbo or pulsar after christmas.

[GTForbes]

Stock mk4 supra tt manual vs stock gen 6 gt4 the gt4 is actually quicker to 30mph because of the amount of traction 

but once the grip is down and the turbos are boosting the supra can eat a gt4 for breakfast.

If only they made the supra 4wd.....

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it really depends on what you want from your car, high speed cruiser or b road blaster? personally i prefer a car i can enjoy with out having to go into tripple figures to get the hairs on the back off my neck to stand on end.

as of FTslOw's and GTslOwers dont make me laugh, a 2.0l V6 is useless unless you get some form of forced induction strapped on, as for the GTO, great car on paper but far too heavy for real use, hence why they never sold enough to keep up production

[celica dave]

new shape honda integra!

[chris202]

new shape honda integra!

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like that rsx thing ?

[GT4 BOOSTER]

tired of hearing what will beat a gen 6 gt4 , the gen 6 gt4 is only 2 litres and 1 turbo, remember and you are pitting it against 3 litres plus twin turbos. on paper the gt4 is 255 ps and the supra is 280 ps , so its fairly obvious what will win.but for a 3 litre to produce only 280 with 2 turbos is fairly crap in comparison. Both are equally as good and have good qualities of their own.anyone lucky enough to own either owns a !Removed! good motor and dont need to beat anyone or any motor to prove any thing.thats in with ownership your allready a winner.

alot faster than the ss2 , but equally as thirsty , if fuel is an issue you dont want either imho.the word diesel springs to mind

[celica dave]

new shape honda integra!

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like that rsx thing ?

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its a dc5 thing!

[chris202]

new shape honda integra!

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like that rsx thing ?

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its a dc5 thing!

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dc5 wow that means a lot to most....

[Leeky]

dc5.....im sure my vacuum cleaner is a dyson dc5

I agree that the celica gt4 and supra tt are both very different cars and we shouldnt really compare them. Although as i said i do think the gt4 is the better car.

Unfortunately when your looking at what to possibly buy you need to compare whats out there.

Yeah 280bhp from a 3ltr twin turbo is pretty rubbish but....the supra is actually tuned down quite a bit to get 280bhp as they needed it to get into the 'gentlemens agreement'.

In reality the supra engine running 'unrestricted' like the gt4 engine will produce more like 350-380bhp. Its unfortunately the two cats and the low boost it comes with stock that keeps it down to 280.

[mikeb]

The supra is only 280 bhp on paper. In reality it's a little more. At legal speeds the Jspec supra is very slightly quicker than the UK spec (it's lighter, lower geared, and has larger ceramic turbos that spool quicker than the UK spec ones).

You can't say the twin turbos must be crap cause it's only a bit more powerful than a GT4. The whole purpose of the twin sequential setup is that the first turbo spools by 1200 rpm, so there's practically no turbo lag, and the engine feels larger than 3L. Compare the torque curve of the two engines, and it is obvious that from a rolling start a TT supe will eat GT4s for breakfast.

How about a Honda S2000? Light, quick, sporty, good on petrol.

[MIP]

I've heard that the gentlemans 280hp agreement only applies on paper, and dyno'd in real life, alot of jap peformance motors can be substantially more. Is that true?

[IanGT]

Thought supras had more than 280bhp?? Parkers seem to think they have 326?

http://www.parkers.co.uk/choosing/specs/de...px?range_id=344

[mikeb]

Thought supras had more than 280bhp?? Parkers seem to think they have 326?

http://www.parkers.co.uk/choosing/specs/de...px?range_id=344

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Uk spec has 326, Jspec has 280 (on paper) due to the gentlemans agreement. In reality they are much closer. The engines are the same apart from cam duration. The turbo's are different, but they both run the same max boost, so peak power isn't affected by that.

[Leeky]

Thought supras had more than 280bhp?? Parkers seem to think they have 326?

http://www.parkers.co.uk/choosing/specs/de...px?range_id=344

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Uk spec has 326, Jspec has 280 (on paper) due to the gentlemans agreement. In reality they are much closer. The engines are the same apart from cam duration. The turbo's are different, but they both run the same max boost, so peak power isn't affected by that.

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Lot more differences than just that. For a start it has 550cc injectors and a bigger fuel pump. The ECU has a completely difference map. Also the UK car uses both MAP and AFM unlike the imports AFM only setup.

Also UK Supra is mapped for 95ron. On 98/99ron you can expect probably over 330bhp.

To answer MIP's question, yes the gentlemens agreement doesnt really hold water. The j-spec supra's usually dyno stock at around 300bhp.

[mikeb]

Lot more differences than just that. For a start it has 550cc injectors and a bigger fuel pump. The ECU has a completely difference map. Also the UK car uses both MAP and AFM unlike the imports AFM only setup.

Yes, but they have no effect on power output in stock form. The UK car only uses the MAP sensor for fuel cut, instead of buying a FCD, just unplug the MAP!

Also UK Supra is mapped for 95ron. On 98/99ron you can expect probably over 330bhp.

It's mapped down to 95 RON unlike the Jspec. But to get the book figure of 326 you would need to use super unleaded. Not sure if the UK was mapped beyond 97 RON.

To answer MIP's question, yes the gentlemens agreement doesnt really hold water. The j-spec supra's usually dyno stock at around 300bhp.

Sounds about right. The good news is that I beleive they have now scrapped the 280 bhp agreement, so we should start seeing some silly power cars from Japan.

[daktari]

Sounds about right. The good news is that I beleive they have now scrapped the 280 bhp agreement, so we should start seeing some silly power cars from Japan.

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Sounds like they`re getting into the same mind set as the Jap bike manufacturers

It`ll all end in tears before bedtime.

Cookci... Just go out and test drive everything you can until you find one that puts a massive grin on your face.

[Leeky]

Lot more differences than just that. For a start it has 550cc injectors and a bigger fuel pump. The ECU has a completely difference map. Also the UK car uses both MAP and AFM unlike the imports AFM only setup.

Yes, but they have no effect on power output in stock form. The UK car only uses the MAP sensor for fuel cut, instead of buying a FCD, just unplug the MAP!

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Erm.....no, if you unplug the MAP the car will not run....as i have done myself in the past. You cannot run a UK Spec Supra on a UK Spec ECU without a MAP sensor. Also how can bigger injectors and a bigger pump not effect power output? it flows more fuel - because it has more power. fit the smaller import injectors and pump to a uk car and it wont make the extra horse power as it cant fuel properly. Most import supra owners fit uk spec injectors and pumps.

Also UK Supra is mapped for 95ron. On 98/99ron you can expect probably over 330bhp.

It's mapped down to 95 RON unlike the Jspec. But to get the book figure of 326 you would need to use super unleaded. Not sure if the UK was mapped beyond 97 RON.

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nope....the 326bhp figure is ON 95 Ron. Running a uk car on anything over 95 will give it over 326bhp.

[celica dave]

new shape honda integra!

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like that rsx thing ?

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its a dc5 thing!

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dc5 wow that means a lot to most....

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CLICK ON CAR! :hokus-pokus:

[spotipus]

WOULD DEFINATELY GO FOR THE SUPRA MATE

been looking at them myself but its so !Removed! confusing there seems to b no book price for them i am looking at uk tt and they vary from £6500-£10000 its too !Removed! confusing at the moment so i will wait until after xmas then maybe get a new TOY :D

[IanGT]

Those DC5 vtecs arent't all that mates CRX vtec beats em get a RX7 lol

[mikeb]

Lot more differences than just that. For a start it has 550cc injectors and a bigger fuel pump. The ECU has a completely difference map. Also the UK car uses both MAP and AFM unlike the imports AFM only setup.

Yes, but they have no effect on power output in stock form. The UK car only uses the MAP sensor for fuel cut, instead of buying a FCD, just unplug the MAP!

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Erm.....no, if you unplug the MAP the car will not run....as i have done myself in the past. You cannot run a UK Spec Supra on a UK Spec ECU without a MAP sensor. Also how can bigger injectors and a bigger pump not effect power output? it flows more fuel - because it has more power. fit the smaller import injectors and pump to a uk car and it wont make the extra horse power as it cant fuel properly. Most import supra owners fit uk spec injectors and pumps.

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The MAP sensor is only used for fuel cut on the UK and VVTi models. I got my wires crossed (ho ho) when I suggested unplugging it. Rather, disconnect the air hose so it just reads atmosphere:

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=40056

Larger injector size and fuel pump are required as a result of the increased power made, they are not directly the cause of it. They flow more fuel because the engine breathes more air, but most of the time they don't flow more fuel as they have a lower duty cycle than the smaller injectors. Anyway, the real reason a UK spec needs larger injectors is becuase they run filthy rich on boost for the purpose of being able to run 95 RON (otherwise it would det). The Jspec fueling should just be able to cope with 326hp, but it can't be stretched as far as 550 injectors when boost is increased.

Also UK Supra is mapped for 95ron. On 98/99ron you can expect probably over 330bhp.

It's mapped down to 95 RON unlike the Jspec. But to get the book figure of 326 you would need to use super unleaded. Not sure if the UK was mapped beyond 97 RON.

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nope....the 326bhp figure is ON 95 Ron. Running a uk car on anything over 95 will give it over 326bhp.

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Where did you read that? ALL manufacturers want to quote the best figures in their engine specs, so they all use the highest octane fuel the ECU can take advantage of when testing. Why would they want to say the engine makes 326hp if they could legitimately say that it makes 340hp?

[Leeky]

An import supra will really stuggle to hit 330bhp on the stock injectors/pump.

I see what your saying about the injectors/pump not directly being the reason for an increase in power. But more something that needs to be done to support the power hike.

But the same could be then said for performance exhaust systems. Sure they are considered a power boosting modification but like the injectors/pump they dont actually create the extra power, more they add the ability for the extra power.

The 326bhp figures are deffo on 95ron fuel. Martin F will back me up on this one, if he see's this thread.

[mikeb]

An import supra will really stuggle to hit 330bhp on the stock injectors/pump.

I see what your saying about the injectors/pump not directly being the reason for an increase in power. But more something that needs to be done to support the power hike.

But the same could be then said for performance exhaust systems. Sure they are considered a power boosting modification but like the injectors/pump they dont actually create the extra power, more they add the ability for the extra power.

The 326bhp figures are deffo on 95ron fuel.    Martin F will back me up on this one, if he see's this thread.

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440cc injectors can just about stretch to 1.2 bar, which should be good for ~400hp at the hubs. The stock pump won't handle it, but I wouldn't trust a 10 year old UK spec pump at 1.2 bar either.

My point about injectors not affecting power is that it makes no difference what size they are 440cc or 1000cc, if the engine is mapped correctly for them it will make exactly the same power. Changing the exhaust can improve air flow, so it is releasing the extra power. Changing the injectors isn't necessary until you get to the limits of the stock turbos.

Anyway, we are getting slightly off topic. We need to help cookci to find his next car - the mythical beast that is faster and uses less petrol than his current car.

[Leeky]

Anyway, we are getting slightly off topic. We need to help cookci to find his next car - the mythical beast that is faster and uses less petrol than his current car. 

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A horse?

[Fidgits]

A griffith is a mythical beast is it not? :P