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How Toyota "created" The Mpg Figures


PetePrius
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Having asked on this forum about your views on the claimed mpg figures for the Prius. There are a couple of key facts to emerge:

1. Toyota probably has genuinely got evidence of these mpg figures for the Prius and can prove them.

2. But none of you have ever achieved the claimed mpg figures Toyota publishes.

So how did they do it?

Simple I guess. The regulations just demand a ‘cold start’ of the engine, but they say nothing about the state of the Battery nor whether EV is selected. What would have stopped Toyota supercharging the Battery before submitting it and pressing EV? Then most of the test would have used the Battery.

However as all us owners know, that this doesn’t happen with our Pruis’s in real life. What does your car normally do at start up (or within a short time, esp in winter if the heater is on), it runs the engine! Moreover the battery is virtually never left fully charged.

Furthermore, it is also possible (and we have no way to prove/disprove it), that the computer chip may also have the ability to recognise the test cycle and ensure that it fully uses the battery during this time. Maybe this is pushing Toyota’s inventiveness a bit far, but it is not impossible, you must agree.

I look forward to comments – especially from Matthew McNally.

Pete

PS Sorry for switching thread in forum, but the implications are so key that I felt they required a new one.

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I look forward to comments – especially from Matthew McNally.

:D

I'm not looking to pick a fight with you Pete :D

My only interest in your last thread was to try and prevent you from suing Toyota as

1 - you could not win (and it could end up costing you a great deal of money)

2 - I dislike the way this country is aping America in its willingness to sue people at the drop of a hat.

I must say though - you seem to have altered your opinion from saying Toyota LIED about the test results, to saying the CHEATED the test results, even designing the car in such a way it can be ran in a more economical way during a test cycle.

That really begs the question - if they can make it be more economical during this test cycle - why not have it be this economical all the time?

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Being the sort of sad person who likes reading standards documents, I was looking at UNECE Regulation 101 a little while back, and in Annex 8 it does specifically cover measurement of efficiency of hybrid vehicles, including formulae that attempt to take into account differences in Battery charge at the start and end of the test.

Presumably the Prius was tested according to that procedure, so at least a nominal attempt to address the Battery charge/discharge would have been made.

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That really begs the question - if they can make it be more economical during this test cycle - why not have it be this economical all the time?

Because as I say, in the testing, they started with a full Battery and ended with an empty one. the test only covers 2.5 miles in the urban and my Pruis could do at least half of that with its Battery.

Pete

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I've just been to double-check, and the hybrid vehicle stuff in Annex 8 was added in ECE R101 Revision 2, which only came into force in April 2005. Further to that, Toyota are claiming the figures were measured under EU directive 80/1268-1999/100/EC, rather than the UNECE regs. The EU test appears to be broadly aligned with older (pre-hybrid) ECE R101.

So yes, as far as I can see the Battery could have been full at the start of the test.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thought the same thing as you mister, so replaced my diesel VW, with an Aygo clone(107) because of my co2 obsession, now I am getting 50mpg (i ride alone most of the time don't need the space), my mpg is a lot less than the governement figures, when my diesel matched them pretty much, just wondered if this is because I live in a hilly area? The (manual) diesel use to go up hills in top, while the 107 left in easy mode will drop to 3rd when climbing, so are there any hills in the government test? And are diesels more effective than petrol when under load? Thing that would interest me would be a prius with a diesel Yaris motor :)

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I have asked both Toyota and Vehicle Certification Agency for a more detailed explanation of figures and specifically for a statement about the Battery and will post here when I get it.

Pete :)

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  • 2 months later...

Toyota cant lie, they do whatever the govt mandated and use it in the best possible way. Your argument with cold starts applies to any other engine as well - are diesels engines tested with cold start? They actually get even bigger penalty during the winter, since those glow plugs take a lot of energy and diesels are very slow to heat up.

Suggestion that Prius has special code to recognize it is in testing mode make your whole argument rather childish.

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To reply to spwolfx, I am becoming even more suspicious of those figures as each day passes. The licensing Vehicle Certification Agency have still not been able to reply to my request after nearly 3 months now and say as an excuse they having trouble finding the exact records of the Toyota tests. Read what you like into this, but I smell something very fishy and I'm reminded about it every day I drive my Prius and I look at the mpg display which never reads over 55mpg.

Potential Prius buyers beware! :(

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To reply to spwolfx, I am becoming even more suspicious of those figures as each day passes. The licensing Vehicle Certification Agency have still not been able to reply to my request after nearly 3 months now and say as an excuse they having trouble finding the exact records of the Toyota tests. Read what you like into this, but I smell something very fishy and I'm reminded about it every day I drive my Prius and I look at the mpg display which never reads over 55mpg.

Potential Prius buyers beware! :(

Thanks I love reading this column, drive my czech Toyota clone, getting 57mpg going round town with the odd motorway drive.

Seems the law is a donkey, they let Mr T make his car look more economical than it is and then subsidise it by reducing th Prius's VED. If you want to be pious tell the today program about the Prius, they always love a story to make Mr Darling look silly :lol: .

Look how a Toyota Avenis 1.8 auto has the same VED as a Bentley Continental! Sorry to go on and its a bit dumb preaching to the converted, maybe I'll email the today program.

Have a nice weekend all :thumbsup:

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Should n't be so smug about being petrol in town, think we emit more benzene which is linked to leukemia in high doses, so never stand downwind when you are filling up :lol: like that makes a difference, wish peugeot-citroen would pull there finger out and sell there flashy hybrid instead of just offering a flashy website and a car longtime in the future :huh:

Does anyone remember the Audi A2 3L would have had one of those, but again never marketed here :huh:

You gotta give Toyota the :thumbsup: for the balls to try something different even if they are doing it by working the rules.

Only got 55mpg on my last fill up in my Aygo MMT clone :rolleyes:

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