Bye Bye Toyota Hello Honda

[amjedfarooq]

I am a taxi driver working in manchester i bought an 02 avensis vvti it lasted 7000 miles before the head went had it repared and sold it on i just thought i was unlucky bought another avensis 02 again fsh ect... lasted 1200 miles engine needs replacing now i know what your thinking he is a taxi driver they abuse their cars they don't look after their cars well no not true taxi cars are proabbly the most well looked after cars on the road (mechanically) when the cars off we don't earn incentive enough to service regularly and maintain to a high standard now my previous car was a honda v tech engine lasted 6 years general wear and tear steering rack replaced at 137000 miles mechanically sound lets decide stay with toyota or go back to honda?????oh and by the way warranty direct don't even put toyota in the top ten in their reliability index just read the owner reviews at warranty direct and before you say why did i switch to toyota in the first place the honda accord had a limited boot space something i think i can learn to live with so if your thinking of buying an avensis don't engine failures at 40000 miles flywheel failures at 100,000 whats that saying hate something change something glad i got that off my chest(sorry about the punctuation)

[Fat Slob]

Hi, sorry you had bad experiences with your Toyota, my experiences apart from ridiculously small issues with Toyota has been the complete opposite.

1986 Celica GT Auto......Zero problems in 2 years

1988 Celica GT...Zero problems in 2 years

1990 Celica GT...Zero problems in 5 years..

1995 Carina E 2.0...No problems other than lots of servicing and that had Starship Enterprise mileage.

2003 Avensis D-4D....Zero problems apart from a wheel vibration, sorted by proper balancing.

I had a 1996 Honda Civic 1.6 for a bit and really disliked it, I know it was a joint Rover/Honda effort but I hated the VTEC engine, really peaky with a constant erratic idle and lumpy running on the motorway, wind noise dreadful, I couldnt wait to return to Toyota.

But its horses for courses isnt it. Good luck with your next car though.

[tarbee]

The taxi driver is right! Owning a 2001 VVTI 1.8 my car has a problem with using oil but at present not enough for Toyota to be bothered about. Before the 5 year 'unofficial' warranty is up on my engine I'll get rid of it and NOT buy another Toyota.

No doubt there are good Toyotas out there but its too much of a gamble! No one minds too much about fixing things like clutches etc as those kinds of things are expected but when you have engines 'giving out' when the car has been looked after and on low millage then I'm afriad thats just a BAD JOKE!

Read the reviews about the engines -its not just the old shape like mine that are affected but even the new shape Avensis! I spent 9300 on my car about 3 years ago and I thought I would keep it a good while longer, but with just 45,000 on the clock I'm gonna sell it! As I mentioned before in another 'post' even though my car isnt using 1litre every few hundred miles its still going to damage the CAT-another big bill!!! I had the spark plugs off my car and the one is particulary oily! Whos knows how long before it goes bang??

Toyota might have been reliable in the past but not anymore. I want a Honda but the wife doesnt like the shape of them! Oh well I'll keep looking.........

[IKR]

I feel exactly the same as tarbee. The only reason I bought this Avensis was because I expected it to be long lasting, with low running costs.

Low running costs over a 120,000 mile / 10 year life are my main objective when buying a car. I hoped that an Avensis would provide this, but am expecting to be severely disappointed. It's currently using 1/2L oil in 1000 miles, and will soon be 5 years old. Should I dump it now (taking a considerable financial loss), before the 'warranty' runs out?

If Toyota sort out the problem with my car, I'll be impressed. I'll tell everyone that I meet that I'm impressed. I'd probably be far more likely to buy another Toyota than if it hadn't gone wrong in the first place.

If I'm left with an oil burning liability, which needs the sump filling more frequently than the petrol tank, you can be pretty sure that the opposite will apply. I run 2 cars, so it will probably cost Toyota 6-8 over the next 30 years. Doesn't that matter to them?

Ian

[Stephen Kowalzcuk]

Maybe using a higher viscocity oil might solve the problem in the early stages, I'm not entirely sure but dont Toyota put 5W/30 in their VVTI engines.

I dont understand why you would need that in the UK, its hardly the Arctic Circle is it.

I've always used a quality 15W/40 oil as an all year round lubricant and have never had any oil burning issues at all in any vehicles over the years.

[amjedfarooq]

Hi, sorry you had bad experiences with your Toyota, my experiences apart from ridiculously small issues with Toyota has been the complete opposite.

1986 Celica GT Auto......Zero problems in 2 years

1988 Celica GT...Zero problems in 2 years

1990 Celica GT...Zero problems in 5 years..

1995 Carina E 2.0...No problems other than lots of servicing and that had Starship Enterprise mileage.

2003 Avensis D-4D....Zero problems apart from a wheel vibration, sorted by proper balancing.

I had a 1996 Honda Civic 1.6 for a bit and really disliked it, I know it was a joint Rover/Honda effort but I hated the VTEC engine, really peaky with a constant erratic idle and lumpy running on the motorway, wind noise dreadful, I couldnt wait to return to Toyota.

But its horses for courses isnt it. Good luck with your next car though.

←

thank you for wishing me well on my new car but i beg to differ on that it's horses for course for 2 reasons

1) what car reliability survey puts the honda accord 98-02 as the most reliable car on the road bar none 2 claims per a hundred (whatcar.com) honda civic is number 2 and suprise suprise their are no toyotas in the top ten

2) honda is rated as the most reliable manufacturer

the standard of toyota has gone downhill they just don't make them like they used too

[Mops1]

I am thinking about changing my 99 avensis for a new shape avensis early next year.

Hmmm reading the above comments I'll give the Mazda6 or Mondeo a closer look. If only the new Accord was available in hatchback!

[Mkuk0]

Mazda is not particularly nice inside, won't stand the wear and tear that the Avensis will IMO. and the stereo is pants compared to the toyota!

[JAHill]

Mazda is not particularly nice inside, won't stand the wear and tear that the Avensis will IMO.  and the stereo is pants compared to the toyota!

←

Looked at a Mazzy6 when choosing a car and the interior door handle literally came off when I closed the door! Not a good advert for a car!

Mondeo wasn't that bad actually... Just the dealer pi**ed me off. Although the engine was hoar5e and the gears a bit "snatchy".

[Fat Slob]

I am a taxi driver working in manchester i bought an 02 avensis vvti it lasted 7000 miles before the head went had it repared and sold it on i just thought i was unlucky bought another avensis 02 again fsh ect... lasted 1200 miles engine needs replacing now i know what your thinking he is a taxi driver they abuse their cars they don't look after their cars well no not true taxi  cars are proabbly the most well looked after cars on the road (mechanically) when the cars off we don't earn incentive enough to service regularly and maintain to a high standard now my previous car was a honda v tech engine lasted 6 years  general wear and tear steering rack replaced at 137000 miles mechanically sound lets decide stay with toyota or go back to honda?????oh and by the way warranty direct don't even put toyota in the top ten in their reliability index just read the owner reviews at warranty direct  and before you say why did i switch to toyota in the first place the honda accord had a limited boot space something i think i can learn to live with so if your thinking of buying an avensis don't engine failures at 40000 miles flywheel failures at 100,000 whats that saying hate something change something glad i got that off my chest(sorry about the punctuation)

←

Amjed

I can understand you are ****** off, who wouldnt be, BUT other manufacturers also have issues. Honda are not perfect either. How about trying a D-4D and arranging and paying a little extra for an independant warranty that covers the specific problems you are worried about, it might be cheaper in the long run.

[amjedfarooq]

dear fatslob

yes i am cheesed off with the facelift avensis model and the vvti engines the lean burn engines on the avensis,carina and other models were engineering to the highest standard and i have never come across anybody who has said prior to the 00 models that they were bad and having looked at the list of your previous toyotas i agree they were outstanding models but that is no longer the case with the vvti engines

a few years ago toyota was the number one manufacturer in reliability that is no longer the case they are now number 4 and the new avensis is number 19 in the jd power survey 2005 with I'm sorry the honda jazz no 1 but the true test of a veichle is not in it's first year that's why as i said earlier warranty direct(please go to the website and see) do not not put any toyotas in the top ten cars this reliability index is only based on actual claims honda accord 2 claims per a hundred engine faults 0 coolant faults 0 baseed upon 100 cars suspension faults higher than the avensis

the v-tec engine has been around for years why haven't they changed it because it works so based upon numerous surveys where every single one i have found puts the honda accord number one parkers, warranty direct, auto trader, whatcar, ( and what car put the peouget 206,ford ka, and this i could not believe rover 25 higher than the avensis which was no 12)auto express,and a 2,800 garage bill i will never buy another toyota again and as for the d4 engine i can't buy diesels because i only drive autos (spinal injury)and have you read you read the reviews on the new i-ctdi engine honda have put milions in an advertising campign just for the engine!!! as a taxi driver i must make an informed choice because taxi drivers are not eligible for warranty cover so based upon research and two Toyota disasters in 12 months it's bye bye toyota hello honda

[Redwine]

" and what car put the peouget 206,ford ka, and this i could not believe rover 25 higher than the avensis which was no 12 "

I cant believe that either to be honest, the 206 is a reliability nightmare, dont Which magazine and Watchdog have it down as the most unreliable car of the decade or something. Frankly What Car spends a lot of time speaking out of its own bottom, they'll be saying next Alfa's and Renault's are paragons of reliability.

206 known problems:

Not quite the style classic the 205 and 306 were (styled in-house by computer, not by Pininfarina). Emergency wheel still slung underneath the boot floor. Reports of side airbags going off for no reason. Reports of water getting into electric door locking control box of late 1998/early 1999 build cars. Easy DIY replacement using Haynes manual, saves typical £55 garage labour cost (part alone £75). (Peugeot Customer Services will sometimes pay for the job.) Water gets in through bonnet vent and plenum chamber underneath is not well drained so drips are carried in through vents in the control box. Also wets the carpet and leads to steaming up in winter. Repeat of Peugeot 106 problem of sudden losses of power caused by faulty throttle position sensing potentiometer seems to re-occur on some 206 1.4s. If driven through floodwater, gearbox can suffer from water ingress via breather. Technical problems with automatic gearboxes on 1.4s led to many orders being cancelled in early 2001. Continued problems seem due to nothing more than an external hydraulic valve, replacement cost £45 + labour. Though some cars have needed a new autobox every year. Reports of severely rusted exhaust systems on GTis after just 12 months. External factory fitted sunroof prone to rattles for which Peugeot has no cure. Reports of engine mountings repeatedly failing on 1.4s. On HDIs, rubber cushioned timing belt pulley needs replacing at same time as timing belt (60k - 70k miles) otherwise can separate. 19th from bottom for reliabilty in Auto Express 2002 reader survey of 100 models. Problems persist with automatic transmission management systems. Fault in indicator stalks very common on 206s, especially Multiplex, from July 2001. Many owners force and break them. Free fix available in France from December 2002, in UK from January 2003. Lower ball joints frequent MOT failure point. Seat runners of 3 door frequently fail. On 206 GTIs used for short runs from cold emulsified oil can block the feeds to the hydraulic tappets leading them to fail within 3 years. The cure is to fit oil feeds and tappets from the 2.2 engine. On 2.0 litre cars, one piece exhaust systems prone to rotting through of back box which Peugeot dealers say necessitates replacement of entire system at £900. Independents can do this for half the price. 19th from bottom for reliabilty in Auto Express 2002 reader survey of 100 models. 17th from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey. Came 13th = from bottom in 2005 JD Power/What Car Survey of 23,000 cars reg Sep 2002 to Aug 2003 with satisfaction score of 73.9%.

Misfiring problem with 1,150cc models could lead to spiked catalytic converters (see 'Recalls'). Make sure central locking system works (see above). Reports of 1,150cc 206s still being sold with faulty ECUs and a shortage of chips to repair them in March 2001.

Recalls

1,150 cc models only, 1,000 cars affected: TSB issued in spring 2000 to replace ignition coil pack, leads and plugs owning to misfire, but correction packs only supplied at rate of 20 a month. 1/2/2000: possibility that brake servo valve may not operate correctly resulting in loss of servo assistance. 18,405 cars recalled for inspection and possible replacement of brake servo valve. 19/9/2000: 1,415 206s fitted with side airbags recalled because they may unintentionally deploy. Side airbag control units to be replaced. 15/1/2001: On 384 cars, front stub axle lower ball joint fixing may have been incorredtly machines, leading to separation of stub axle from ball joint and lower suspension arm. Cars to be checkedand stub axles replaced where necessary. 12/11/2001: Limited recall of 84 206s fitted with wrong part in the airbag module. 28/2/2002: Check that lower front seat belt attachments have not worked loose. 4-5-2002: 11,930 206s recalled because steering column cowling may move out of alignment causing ignition switch to foul on cowling and stick in start position, possibly damaging starter motor. Recall, check and replace steering column clamp and or cowling where necessary. Spring 2003: brake squeal problem on 2.0 litre models cured by different pads. 24-11-2003: Recall of all 278,812 RHD 206s built before February 2002 (51 reg or earlier) to replace two clevis pins on the brake pedal system. Customer helpline: 0845 60 206 206.

Avensis known problems:

Some reports of premature clutch and gearbox failures. Isolated report of problems with immobiliser. Steering racks of early build 1997 cars can be prone to leaks (Toyota has replaced these FOC at 4 years old). On later cars a clunk from the rack is easily cured by re-greasing. Rear drum brake cylinders can also start to seep fluid. Slipping alternator belt a known fault on diesel and easily cured. Replaced by new model late 2002. Mk I VVTi engine engine appears to use lots of oil; so much that Toyota

specifies in its handbook up to 1 litre every 1000miles. Because of this problem Toyota increased the engine warranty to 5 years. The Mk2 VVTi engine also reported to have this problem.

Recalls

11-7-2002: 3,085 Avensis in VIN range SB153BB to SB172BB: possibility that excess residual stress remains on check valve of fuel pump during assembly leading it to leak fuel. Valeve to be re-tightened and relevant pipe to be replaced to protedt against stress. 30-9-2002: On 900 cars fitted with a spoiler the spoiler may become loose. Revised spoiler fixing to be used.

Speaks for itself really doesnt it.

[Blaze]

in all fairness, you posted in an avensis forum, surely people will be a bit bias

[Fat Slob]

That reliability index puts Subaru 3rd from bottom. Go figure that one out. I dont understand that at all. Subarus as a rule just dont have problems. I think that index is misleading. It doesnt make sense at all and Porsche is the most unreliable manufacturer based on one model.

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/default.html?apc=311

[Steve84]

I had a 1.4 vvt-i corolla that drank oil so much that a 5 litre bottle would last me a week -10 days at most. Had that engine replaced all was well till after approx 2000 miles the camshaft failed another new engine, i then brought my avensis. We all know there is a issue with the vvt-i engines so whats hard about checking the oil level once a week and topping up as required. All cars burn oil due to negitive pressure on over run etc its just that the vvt-i's use more than other cars. My dads xplate 1.8 vvt-i avensis dont use a drop thats done 43k. My corolla started to burn oil at 25k. Honda's v-tec has been in production for about 14-15 years or so with minnor chnages over that period, but it does less mpg than the avensis at the moment me and my dad are getting 45-50mpg i ask honda to beat that with a pertol engine. I aint slating honda i was goning to get one when i had all the trouble with my corolla but apart from the oil issue the car was faultless. If all us vvt-i owners have to worry about is burning a bit of oil and a few other little niggles then so be it, i just feel sorry for all the ford, vauxhall etc owners out there who have loads of things going wrong. Just like to add we are all intitled to different opinion and thats mine.

(Toyota - With the high average cost of repair and quite a good index rating - Which means that the car fails infrequently but when it does then you will be in for a a larger than average bill, however overall Toyota is a very strong make of car to buy. )

that is quoted off the reliabilty survey website and in all fairness is summed up corectly.

[Redwine]

I agree with Steve84, for me the pleasure of owning a Toyota is getting in it and not once thinking the speedo wont work or the dashbulbs will blow or the ECU will play up, it just starts and goes with no drama at all.

Ok the VVti oil usage is a problem, but its Toyotas only biggie as far as I know and theres a first for everything.

Owning a Renault or similar is a frightening experience, every day brings new problems, they are total crap, I had two Renaults in the past and I had to take the dash apart twice a week to fix the bulbs, not to mention the manic electrics constantly playing up and the bizarre crunches and weird noises the suspension made. You have to live with one to understand the anguish.

Even if I had the oil problem I would stick with Toyota simply because its the only real problem they've had and are sorting it slowly but surely I believe.

[amjedfarooq]

" and what car put the peouget 206,ford ka, and this i could not believe rover 25 higher than the avensis which was no 12 "

I cant believe that either to be honest, the 206 is a reliability nightmare, dont Which magazine and Watchdog have it down as the most unreliable car of the decade or something. Frankly What Car spends a lot of time speaking out of its own bottom, they'll be saying next Alfa's and Renault's are paragons of reliability.

206 known problems:

Not quite the style classic the 205 and 306 were (styled in-house by computer, not by Pininfarina). Emergency wheel still slung underneath the boot floor. Reports of side airbags going off for no reason. Reports of water getting into electric door locking control box of late 1998/early 1999 build cars. Easy DIY replacement using Haynes manual, saves typical £55 garage labour cost (part alone £75). (Peugeot Customer Services will sometimes pay for the job.) Water gets in through bonnet vent and plenum chamber underneath is not well drained so drips are carried in through vents in the control box. Also wets the carpet and leads to steaming up in winter. Repeat of Peugeot 106 problem of sudden losses of power caused by faulty throttle position sensing potentiometer seems to re-occur on some 206 1.4s. If driven through floodwater, gearbox can suffer from water ingress via breather. Technical problems with automatic gearboxes on 1.4s led to many orders being cancelled in early 2001. Continued problems seem due to nothing more than an external hydraulic valve, replacement cost £45 + labour. Though some cars have needed a new autobox every year. Reports of severely rusted exhaust systems on GTis after just 12 months. External factory fitted sunroof prone to rattles for which Peugeot has no cure. Reports of engine mountings repeatedly failing on 1.4s. On HDIs, rubber cushioned timing belt pulley needs replacing at same time as timing belt (60k - 70k miles) otherwise can separate. 19th from bottom for reliabilty in Auto Express 2002 reader survey of 100 models. Problems persist with automatic transmission management systems. Fault in indicator stalks very common on 206s, especially Multiplex, from July 2001. Many owners force and break them. Free fix available in France from December 2002, in UK from January 2003. Lower ball joints frequent MOT failure point. Seat runners of 3 door frequently fail. On 206 GTIs used for short runs from cold emulsified oil can block the feeds to the hydraulic tappets leading them to fail within 3 years. The cure is to fit oil feeds and tappets from the 2.2 engine. On 2.0 litre cars, one piece exhaust systems prone to rotting through of back box which Peugeot dealers say necessitates replacement of entire system at £900. Independents can do this for half the price. 19th from bottom for reliabilty in Auto Express 2002 reader survey of 100 models. 17th from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey. Came 13th = from bottom in 2005 JD Power/What Car Survey of 23,000 cars reg Sep 2002 to Aug 2003 with satisfaction score of 73.9%.

Misfiring problem with 1,150cc models could lead to spiked catalytic converters (see 'Recalls'). Make sure central locking system works (see above). Reports of 1,150cc 206s still being sold with faulty ECUs and a shortage of chips to repair them in March 2001.

Recalls

1,150 cc models only, 1,000 cars affected: TSB issued in spring 2000 to replace ignition coil pack, leads and plugs owning to misfire, but correction packs only supplied at rate of 20 a month. 1/2/2000: possibility that brake servo valve may not operate correctly resulting in loss of servo assistance. 18,405 cars recalled for inspection and possible replacement of brake servo valve. 19/9/2000: 1,415 206s fitted with side airbags recalled because they may unintentionally deploy. Side airbag control units to be replaced. 15/1/2001: On 384 cars, front stub axle lower ball joint fixing may have been incorredtly machines, leading to separation of stub axle from ball joint and lower suspension arm. Cars to be checkedand stub axles replaced where necessary. 12/11/2001: Limited recall of 84 206s fitted with wrong part in the airbag module. 28/2/2002: Check that lower front seat belt attachments have not worked loose. 4-5-2002: 11,930 206s recalled because steering column cowling may move out of alignment causing ignition switch to foul on cowling and stick in start position, possibly damaging starter motor. Recall, check and replace steering column clamp and or cowling where necessary. Spring 2003: brake squeal problem on 2.0 litre models cured by different pads. 24-11-2003: Recall of all 278,812 RHD 206s built before February 2002 (51 reg or earlier) to replace two clevis pins on the brake pedal system. Customer helpline: 0845 60 206 206.

Avensis known problems:

Some reports of premature clutch and gearbox failures. Isolated report of problems with immobiliser. Steering racks of early build 1997 cars can be prone to leaks (Toyota has replaced these FOC at 4 years old). On later cars a clunk from the rack is easily cured by re-greasing. Rear drum brake cylinders can also start to seep fluid. Slipping alternator belt a known fault on diesel and easily cured. Replaced by new model late 2002. Mk I VVTi engine engine appears to use lots of oil; so much that Toyota

specifies in its handbook up to 1 litre every 1000miles. Because of this problem Toyota increased the engine warranty to 5 years. The Mk2 VVTi engine also reported to have this problem.

Recalls

11-7-2002: 3,085 Avensis in VIN range SB153BB to SB172BB: possibility that excess residual stress remains on check valve of fuel pump during assembly leading it to leak fuel. Valeve to be re-tightened and relevant pipe to be replaced to protedt against stress. 30-9-2002: On 900 cars fitted with a spoiler the spoiler may become loose. Revised spoiler fixing to be used.

Speaks for itself really doesnt it.

←

could you please tell me what are known faults on th 98-02 accord?

[Redwine]

Put 89-93 by mistake, this is the correct one for 98-03 Accord

My pleasure

What's Bad

Reports of problems with manual gearboxes. Serious problem with the printed circuit boards that control the automatic load compensating headlamp beam adjusters of Type Rs which may become the subject of a safety recall. New Accord due Summer 2003.

What to Watch Out For

Eee What's Bad and Recalls.

Recalls

2000: Accords built July '98-July '99: check for sticking throttle. 2001: Safety recall to check brakes. TSBs to fit plastic sleeve to doorlocks to cure a rattle and to check tension of ancilliaries belt because too much can wear out the water pump bearings. May 2002: contact point in ignition can fail at speed causing a stall in cars built 1997 to 2000 (Auto Express 30-5-2002). Official recall 6-6-2002: Eelctrical contacts in ignition switch wear prematurely leading to a stall. Remedy to fit new switch. 53,175 Hondas affected. 16-7-2003: 25,413 Accords recalled because rer seatbelt may not retract properly due to broken webbing spool. Check all seatbelts in car and replace any malfunctioning spools.

Pretty impressive, however I do believe the fuel consumption is appalling. 1.8 and 2.0 VTEC barely get into 30 mpg, something that Honda customer services are regularly contacted about. That must be an issue for a taxi driver.

[jamesholden]

My dad had one of the old shape Accords a few years ago, 2.0 SE Exec auto, it was very nice, seemed to be a much more modern and superior car for it's time than the old shape Avensis which I had later (considering there both cars launched around 1998, he didn't have a problem with it, build quality seemed better than the Avensis as well as more modern specification.

As for the new Accord, I should think the quality will be better than the new Avensis chiefly due to it being built in Japan now rather than the UK and all the surveys not just these warranty cost ones always place Accords higher than Avensis'.

[amjedfarooq]

Put 89-93 by mistake, this is the correct one for 98-03 Accord

My pleasure

What's Bad

Reports of problems with manual gearboxes. Serious problem with the printed circuit boards that control the automatic load compensating headlamp beam adjusters of Type Rs which may become the subject of a safety recall. New Accord due Summer 2003.

What to Watch Out For

Eee What's Bad and Recalls.

Recalls

2000: Accords built July '98-July '99: check for sticking throttle. 2001: Safety recall to check brakes. TSBs to fit plastic sleeve to doorlocks to cure a rattle and to check tension of ancilliaries belt because too much can wear out the water pump bearings. May 2002: contact point in ignition can fail at speed causing a stall in cars built 1997 to 2000 (Auto Express 30-5-2002). Official recall 6-6-2002: Eelctrical contacts in ignition switch wear prematurely leading to a stall. Remedy to fit new switch. 53,175 Hondas affected. 16-7-2003: 25,413 Accords recalled because rer seatbelt may not retract properly due to broken webbing spool. Check all seatbelts in car and replace any malfunctioning spools.

Pretty impressive, however I do believe the fuel consumption is appalling. 1.8 and 2.0 VTEC barely get into 30 mpg, something that Honda customer services are regularly contacted about. That must be an issue for a taxi driver.

←

[Vlada]

Hi all,

I have a Avensis D4D luna '04, since I was sure that today, concerning the TPS and constant quality rates, Toyota is the best car producer world wide I was dissatisfied.

After 10.000km of a normal bussines use further was spotted on my vehicle:

-corrosion of the whole engine block,bosch pump, parts of the suspension,exhaust

-oil was leaking from the turbine

This was all pictured and sent to the Toyota Europe and after one month the turbine was changed but they refused to change the car/engine since they are sure that this is not a big failure, but only the "beauty" issue?!

So fellows I even wrote to Japan-no answer at all.Since I am a tech. eng. I must addmit that all that happens today (not only in the car ind, but espec.) is due to the way of people's way of "consumer" life.In addition to this the car manuf. are only looking how to put more gadgets in our gadgetfull life and to incrase the safety.They do not have enough time to look over the consumer sattisfaction because they have to put the new car model every 2-3 years.Problems as mine were 20 years ago a complete disaster.On my other car Ford escort TD '97, which was driven under even worst conditions,no corrosion was spotted.

Wish you all the best what ever you are drivig!

;) ;)

[amjedfarooq]

I had a 1.4 vvt-i corolla that drank oil so much that a 5 litre bottle would last me a week -10 days at most. Had that engine replaced all was well till after approx 2000 miles the camshaft failed another new engine, i then brought my avensis. We all know there is a issue with the vvt-i engines so whats hard about checking the oil level once a week and topping up as required. All cars burn oil due to negative pressure on over run etc its just that the vvt-i's use more than other cars. My dads xplate 1.8 vvt-i avensis dont use a drop thats done 43k. My corolla started to burn oil at 25k. Honda's v-tec has been in production for about 14-15 years or so with minnor chnages over that period, but it does less mpg than the avensis at the moment me and my dad are getting 45-50mpg i ask honda to beat that with a pertol engine. I aint slating honda i was goning to get one when i had all the trouble with my corolla but apart from the oil issue the car was faultless. If all us vvt-i owners have to worry about is burning a bit of oil and a few other little niggles then so be it, i just feel sorry for all the ford, vauxhall etc owners out there who have loads of things going wrong. Just like to add we are all intitled to different opinion and thats mine.

(Toyota - With the high average cost of repair and quite a good index rating - Which means that the car fails infrequently but when it does then you will be in for a a larger than average bill, however overall Toyota is a very strong make of car to buy. )

that is quoted off the reliabilty survey website and in all fairness is summed up corectly.

←

larger than average bill is 3500 plus vat (replacement engine) and honda is the most expensive dealer in it's class yet comes top in every car survey so the dealer costs in the index rating when compared to honda are irrelevant so why would i want to buy a toyota waiting for the engine to fail when i can buy a honda with a 98 out of a hundred cars not reporting a fault of any kind over a 12 month period and if toyotas are so reliable why can i not find one survey that puts the avensis higher than the honda accord bye bye toyota

[amjedfarooq]

That reliability index puts Subaru 3rd from bottom. Go figure that one out. I dont understand that at all. Subarus as a rule just dont have problems. I think that index is misleading. It doesnt make sense at all and Porsche is the most unreliable manufacturer based on one model.

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/default.html?apc=311

←

as a rule or do you have an independent survey to back that up as a rule toyota don't make engines that fail after 25000 miles

[amjedfarooq]

Put 89-93 by mistake, this is the correct one for 98-03 Accord

My pleasure

What's Bad

Reports of problems with manual gearboxes. Serious problem with the printed circuit boards that control the automatic load compensating headlamp beam adjusters of Type Rs which may become the subject of a safety recall. New Accord due Summer 2003.

What to Watch Out For

Eee What's Bad and Recalls.

Recalls

2000: Accords built July '98-July '99: check for sticking throttle. 2001: Safety recall to check brakes. TSBs to fit plastic sleeve to doorlocks to cure a rattle and to check tension of ancilliaries belt because too much can wear out the water pump bearings. May 2002: contact point in ignition can fail at speed causing a stall in cars built 1997 to 2000 (Auto Express 30-5-2002). Official recall 6-6-2002: Eelctrical contacts in ignition switch wear prematurely leading to a stall. Remedy to fit new switch. 53,175 Hondas affected. 16-7-2003: 25,413 Accords recalled because rer seatbelt may not retract properly due to broken webbing spool. Check all seatbelts in car and replace any malfunctioning spools.

Pretty impressive, however I do believe the fuel consumption is appalling. 1.8 and 2.0 VTEC barely get into 30 mpg, something that Honda customer services are regularly contacted about. That must be an issue for a taxi driver.

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so it's official the honda accord has less faults than the toyota avensis so hondas are better!!!

[amjedfarooq]

Put 89-93 by mistake, this is the correct one for 98-03 Accord

My pleasure

What's Bad

Reports of problems with manual gearboxes. Serious problem with the printed circuit boards that control the automatic load compensating headlamp beam adjusters of Type Rs which may become the subject of a safety recall. New Accord due Summer 2003.

What to Watch Out For

Eee What's Bad and Recalls.

Recalls

2000: Accords built July '98-July '99: check for sticking throttle. 2001: Safety recall to check brakes. TSBs to fit plastic sleeve to doorlocks to cure a rattle and to check tension of ancilliaries belt because too much can wear out the water pump bearings. May 2002: contact point in ignition can fail at speed causing a stall in cars built 1997 to 2000 (Auto Express 30-5-2002). Official recall 6-6-2002: Eelctrical contacts in ignition switch wear prematurely leading to a stall. Remedy to fit new switch. 53,175 Hondas affected. 16-7-2003: 25,413 Accords recalled because rer seatbelt may not retract properly due to broken webbing spool. Check all seatbelts in car and replace any malfunctioning spools.

Pretty impressive, however I do believe the fuel consumption is appalling. 1.8 and 2.0 VTEC barely get into 30 mpg, something that Honda customer services are regularly contacted about. That must be an issue for a taxi driver.

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i do like toyota but based upon your response i know i will like honda even more