Power Steering

[daktari]

OK peeps. Is their anyway that the power steering on a gen5 can be changed for a non powered setup. Without resorting to mega expensive aftermarket systems. Reasons????

1/ Better steering feedback.

2/ Less weight.

3/ Less clutter in the engine bay.

4/ I need to build my muscles up.

[mikeb]

Just take off the drive belt to the PAS pump. Best bit is you free up a couple of HP! Presumably it is possible to drain the system and remove all the gubbins too, but you might need to strip the rack and do something about the seals. They probably need to be wet for lubrication, without which it might seize up.

But you won't last long without PAS, these cars are pretty heavy and the wide tyre contact patch doesn't help either.

[daktari]

Thanks mike. Now you`ve got me wondering.... Perhaps you know the answer???

Under normal circumstances on most vehicles, if say the PAS belt were to snap. The steering would become intollerably heavy at low speed. Correct?

I`m assuming this is because the input through the steering wheel is in effect fighting against the hydraulic pressure in the system. Please correct me if i`m wrong.

So i`m guessing that releasing the pressure by removing the pipes attached to the rack for instance, would result in near normal manual rack characteristics. Although as you say, lubrication would then become an issue. Although not an insurmountable one.

As you say releasing a few more ponies is a bonus. But also getting rid of a few whirly bits and a couple of metres of pipework and the PAS rad is what i`m really after. (Bigger intercooler on the way) :D

It would be nice if i could find a manual rack that would bolt straight in, off a non PAS corolla for example. But i suspect it`s not going to be that easy.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[mikeb]

Thanks mike. Now you`ve got me wondering.... Perhaps you know the answer???

Under normal circumstances on most vehicles, if say the PAS belt were to snap. The steering would become intollerably heavy at low speed. Correct?

I`m assuming this is because the input through the steering wheel is in effect fighting against the hydraulic pressure in the system. Please correct me if i`m wrong.

So i`m guessing that releasing the pressure by removing the pipes attached to the rack for instance, would result in near normal manual rack characteristics. Although as you say, lubrication would then become an issue. Although not an insurmountable one.

As you say releasing a few more ponies is a bonus. But also getting rid of a few whirly bits and a couple of metres of pipework and the PAS rad is what i`m really after. (Bigger intercooler on the way) :D

It would be nice if i could find a manual rack that would bolt straight in, off a non PAS corolla for example. But i suspect it`s not going to be that easy. 

Your thoughts would be appreciated. 

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No, there is no pressure in the PAS system whilst the pump is not running. All that heavy load is 99% down to the weight and tyre contact patch. The ratio of the steering rack is higher than a non PAS rack would have.

As you turn the wheel, the servo valve is operated mechanically by the torque in the steering column. So the valve will be open and there shouldn't be any resistance due to the hydraulics.

At least, I think that's how it is. You can always jack up the car so the front wheels are in the air and turn the steering with the engine off - if you feel any significant load then that will be hydraulic resistance.

I think you will find that without PAS, the steering will be as heavy as when the engine is not running, IMO it's not really drivable in that state!

[daktari]

OK. Think i`ve got the gist of it now. Thanks Mike your a star :D . I`ll have a look round the interwebby thing and see what else i can come up with.

[mikeb]

Electric PAS pump conversion is an option - you still get power assistance, but the pump is more energy efficient. It should free up a couple of horses at least, and typically save around 5% on fuel consumption.

Think about the way a machanical pas pump works - it needs to supply the most power during low speed manouvering, when the engine/pump speed is at it's lowest. Then at high speed cruising the pas pump is driven way faster than it needs to be and the pressure relief valve is open dumping all that energy - all it achieves is heating up the pas fluid.

An electric pump is totally disconected from the engine speed, hence it runs at a constant speed and there is less wastage. Many newer cars have electric pas pumps. I bought one a while ago (from an astra I think), to replace my leaky old mechanical pump, but I've not got around to sorting it out yet. There is quite a bit of work involved - it needs a high current electrical supply, and then you have to get appropriate hydraulic hoses made up, mount the pump (it's big), and possibly fit a pressure regulator valve too (the newer pas pumps might supply too high a pressure for an old pas rack).

[daktari]

What an excellent idea. Cheers Mike. I`d not considered that one. Another avenue to explore. :D

This`ll be it then. Looks good. And i suppose it can be mounted anywhere there`s space for it. :D

I also had the idea of cobbling up a device whereby i could engage/disengage the PAS from the cockpit via either an electric servo or cable operated idler pulley acting on the PAS belt. But dismissed it because of the extra complexity involved.

[mikeb]

That looks exactly the same as the pump I've got. Be aware that it is bigger than it looks in that pic (about a foot tall!).

Here's where I first read about it:

http://www.v8church.com/mods.html

[max6674]

4/ I need to build my muscles up. 

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Come and drive my S3 Land Rover.. no power steering and heavy as you like.. soon have muscles like Arnie he he

[sotal]

hmmm, just wondering if I can fit one of those electric ones to my S3 Land Rover whilst I'm building it???

To be honest though my old Metro had heavier steering than the Series 3 Land Rover!!

Am I right in assuming that in a normal car you just get one of those electric things and a power steering rack, codge the rack in place of the old non PAS rack, connect pump up with a couple of hoses and voila!

Sounds interesting for my sister in laws pug 106, as she finds it a it heavy. There is a 106 electric thingy on eBay for £50

[mikeb]

hmmm, just wondering if I can fit one of those electric ones to my S3 Land Rover whilst I'm building it???

To be honest though my old Metro had heavier steering than the Series 3 Land Rover!!

Am I right in assuming that in a normal car you just get one of those electric things and a power steering rack, codge the rack in place of the old non PAS rack, connect pump up with a couple of hoses and voila!

Sounds interesting for my sister in laws pug 106, as she finds it a it heavy. There is a 106 electric thingy on ebay for £50

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You need the servo valve to operate it as well. I'm not sure if these are in the rack or the steering column.