Rav 4 D4d

[Elizabeth McCullagh]

We have a RAV4 D4D 2001 model. At 36000 miles and 4 years old we experienced problems with speedo and fuel economy on dash. Also engine juddering at low revs in higher gears. Speedo reading was about 20% low as was fuel economy reading. Eventually knocking was noticed from the transmission at low revs. Took vehicle to dealers in Glasgow, as we live offshore in the Inner Hebrides. Engineer told us that we needed new clutch, speedo drive and flywheel. The final bill was about £2500. We ahve corresponded unsatisfactorily with Toyota Customer Services, who maintain the problem was due to normal wear and tear. We do not accept this and clearly Toyota have a problem with the two part flywheel in this model that they are unwilling to admit to. Would like to hear from anyone who has had similar problems.

[llith]

We have a RAV4 D4D 2001 model.  At 36000 miles and 4 years old we experienced problems with speedo and fuel economy on dash.  Also engine juddering at low revs in higher gears.  Speedo reading was about 20% low as was fuel economy reading.  Eventually knocking was noticed from the transmission at low revs.  Took vehicle to dealers in Glasgow, as we live offshore in the Inner Hebrides.  Engineer told us that we needed new clutch, speedo drive and flywheel.  The final bill was about £2500.  We ahve corresponded unsatisfactorily with Toyota Customer Services, who maintain the problem was due to normal wear and tear.  We do not accept this and clearly Toyota have a problem with the two part flywheel in this model that they are unwilling to admit to.  Would like to hear from anyone who has had similar problems.

←

Sorry to hear about your predicament . Do you use the Rav for towing ? You would really expect it to last a bit more tham 36000 mls .Here is some more info I got off the web on DMF and why they fail .

Quote :

A dual mass flywheel, or DMF, is made up of a primary and secondary flywheel with a series of torsion springs and cushions. There is a friction ring located between the inner and outer flywheel that allows the 2 flywheels to slip. This feature saves the transmission from damage when torque loads exceed the vehicle rating of the transmission. The friction ring can then wear out if excessive loads are applied.

The DMF also has a center support bearing that carries the load between the inner and the outer flywheel. The leading failure of the bearing is vibration caused by misalignment of the pressure plate and the DMF dowel pins during clutch replacement. Lastly, you have the damper springs. The # 1 cause of failure is engine run-ability problems. A poor running engine, if not attended to, will change the resonant frequency of the engine, causing the engine to run in an undesirable RPM range. When this happens, it overworks the damper springs, causing premature failure.

The function of the DMF is to isolate the torsion crankshaft spikes created by high compression ratios. If you can isolate the torsion spikes, you will eliminate the possibility of damage to the transmission gear teeth. The DMF isolates the frequency below the normal engine operating rpm's during startup and shutdown

Unquote

Hope this is of some use

[Daverav4]

We have a RAV4 D4D 2001 model.  At 36000 miles and 4 years old we experienced problems with speedo and fuel economy on dash.  Also engine juddering at low revs in higher gears.  Speedo reading was about 20% low as was fuel economy reading.  Eventually knocking was noticed from the transmission at low revs.  Took vehicle to dealers in Glasgow, as we live offshore in the Inner Hebrides.  Engineer told us that we needed new clutch, speedo drive and flywheel.  The final bill was about £2500.  We ahve corresponded unsatisfactorily with Toyota Customer Services, who maintain the problem was due to normal wear and tear.  We do not accept this and clearly Toyota have a problem with the two part flywheel in this model that they are unwilling to admit to.  Would like to hear from anyone who has had similar problems.

←

Sorry to hear about your predicament . Do you use the Rav for towing ? You would really expect it to last a bit more tham 36000 mls .Here is some more info I got off the web on DMF and why they fail .

Quote :

A dual mass flywheel, or DMF, is made up of a primary and secondary flywheel with a series of torsion springs and cushions. There is a friction ring located between the inner and outer flywheel that allows the 2 flywheels to slip. This feature saves the transmission from damage when torque loads exceed the vehicle rating of the transmission. The friction ring can then wear out if excessive loads are applied.

The DMF also has a center support bearing that carries the load between the inner and the outer flywheel. The leading failure of the bearing is vibration caused by misalignment of the pressure plate and the DMF dowel pins during clutch replacement. Lastly, you have the damper springs. The # 1 cause of failure is engine run-ability problems. A poor running engine, if not attended to, will change the resonant frequency of the engine, causing the engine to run in an undesirable RPM range. When this happens, it overworks the damper springs, causing premature failure.

The function of the DMF is to isolate the torsion crankshaft spikes created by high compression ratios. If you can isolate the torsion spikes, you will eliminate the possibility of damage to the transmission gear teeth. The DMF isolates the frequency below the normal engine operating rpm's during startup and shutdown

Unquote

Hope this is of some use

←

[Daverav4]

Also have rav4 2002 with only 40000 miles with a noisy gearbox,It sounds like the exhaust hitting off the body but alas it is not possibly ......duel mass flywheel.It must be a comon problem and this is the second time i have had this problem the first being a toyota hilux surf. How did you get on with Toyota regarding this problem as i dont fancy giving Toyota any more money for a problem box.If anybody else has this problem please contact me so i can prove this is a toyota fault and not mine steiga@oceanfree.net

[Turbun]

Guys.

Have also experienced this problem. This is what I replied to an earlier post on the same subject. FYI I work as Prototype Vehicle Technician for a well known car company.

"I have a 2000 Avensis 2.0 D4D, 49,000 miles. About a month ago it developed the same symptons as your Rav4. No vibrations but noise just like you describe. Saw bits of swarf falling out of split line betwwen engine and gearbox so decided to remove the gearbox. On doing so found nothing wrong with clutch or gearbox so removed Dual mass Flywheel. The two parts of the flywheel are held together by (I think) 8 Tx40 screws. 2 of these screws had fallen out and the rest were loose. The ones that had fallen out were making the rattle and had caused damaged to the sandwich plate. Was lucky in the respect that I managed to find a replacement flywheel from a car which had only covered a few hundred miles at a cost of £400. This was the only complonent that needed replacing as no damage to gearbox or clutch components was evident. After getting the car back on the road I contacted a few Toyota dealerships and all of them swear they have never heard of this problem. Strange as a quick search on the net showed at least 5 instances of the problem and after reading your post I am convinced this is a major problem for Toyota. After examining the failed flywheel I am of the opinion that the screws came loose only as a result of some other failure within the Flywheel mechanism. This failure resulting in the screws being shocked or vibrated loose. Interesting to note that as far as I am aware most Dual Mass Flywheels have the two parts riveted together and I have never seen a screw set up before.Dual Mass Flywheels have been known to fail on other makes of cars but only after 100k miles or so. Not the 50k these seem to at.Will be very interested to see if you find the same things wrong with yours. Also shop around various dealers when looking for a replacement flywheel as they vary significantly in price. Cheapest I found was around £550. Would not fit a second hand one unless you fiind a very low miler like I did. Good Luck and look forward to hearing what you find.

[ivan taylor]

We have a RAV4 D4D 2001 model.  At 36000 miles and 4 years old we experienced problems with speedo and fuel economy on dash.  Also engine juddering at low revs in higher gears.  Speedo reading was about 20% low as was fuel economy reading.  Eventually knocking was noticed from the transmission at low revs.  Took vehicle to dealers in Glasgow, as we live offshore in the Inner Hebrides.  Engineer told us that we needed new clutch, speedo drive and flywheel.  The final bill was about £2500.  We ahve corresponded unsatisfactorily with Toyota Customer Services, who maintain the problem was due to normal wear and tear.  We do not accept this and clearly Toyota have a problem with the two part flywheel in this model that they are unwilling to admit to.  Would like to hear from anyone who has had similar problems.

←

Sorry to hear about your predicament . Do you use the Rav for towing ? You would really expect it to last a bit more tham 36000 mls .Here is some more info I got off the web on DMF and why they fail .

Quote :

A dual mass flywheel, or DMF, is made up of a primary and secondary flywheel with a series of torsion springs and cushions. There is a friction ring located between the inner and outer flywheel that allows the 2 flywheels to slip. This feature saves the transmission from damage when torque loads exceed the vehicle rating of the transmission. The friction ring can then wear out if excessive loads are applied.

The DMF also has a center support bearing that carries the load between the inner and the outer flywheel. The leading failure of the bearing is vibration caused by misalignment of the pressure plate and the DMF dowel pins during clutch replacement. Lastly, you have the damper springs. The # 1 cause of failure is engine run-ability problems. A poor running engine, if not attended to, will change the resonant frequency of the engine, causing the engine to run in an undesirable RPM range. When this happens, it overworks the damper springs, causing premature failure.

The function of the DMF is to isolate the torsion crankshaft spikes created by high compression ratios. If you can isolate the torsion spikes, you will eliminate the possibility of damage to the transmission gear teeth. The DMF isolates the frequency below the normal engine operating rpm's during startup and shutdown

Unquote

Hope this is of some use

/quote]

I am now taking Toyota to court on September 15th 2006 with this same problem My dealer had my vehicle in the repair shop 3 times prior to the warranty being expired and diagnosed various faults each time it came back it was still the same it was only after they told me I needed a new clutch, which I took to another garage did I discover that the flywheel had broken I went back to Toyota who have said all along there is not and has never been a problem with the flywheel on rav 4's I have been a mechanic for thirty years and it is mine and indeed a great many other dealers that are of the opinion a flywheel should last the lifetime of the vehicle. I felt very annoyed that Toyoat are indeed aware of this problem but refuse to recognise it and indeed would not even try to reach a satisfactory compromise I have in my posession prined documents that were sent anonimously through the post off a Toyota dealership acknowledging the problems with flywheels on these vehicles I also understan they are having the same problems with Avensis

If anybody has any information that will help me to bring this problem out in the open please contact me

[ivan taylor]

We have a RAV4 D4D 2001 model.  At 36000 miles and 4 years old we experienced problems with speedo and fuel economy on dash.  Also engine juddering at low revs in higher gears.  Speedo reading was about 20% low as was fuel economy reading.  Eventually knocking was noticed from the transmission at low revs.  Took vehicle to dealers in Glasgow, as we live offshore in the Inner Hebrides.  Engineer told us that we needed new clutch, speedo drive and flywheel.  The final bill was about £2500.  We ahve corresponded unsatisfactorily with Toyota Customer Services, who maintain the problem was due to normal wear and tear.  We do not accept this and clearly Toyota have a problem with the two part flywheel in this model that they are unwilling to admit to.  Would like to hear from anyone who has had similar problems.

←

Sorry to hear about your predicament . Do you use the Rav for towing ? You would really expect it to last a bit more tham 36000 mls .Here is some more info I got off the web on DMF and why they fail .

Quote :

A dual mass flywheel, or DMF, is made up of a primary and secondary flywheel with a series of torsion springs and cushions. There is a friction ring located between the inner and outer flywheel that allows the 2 flywheels to slip. This feature saves the transmission from damage when torque loads exceed the vehicle rating of the transmission. The friction ring can then wear out if excessive loads are applied.

The DMF also has a center support bearing that carries the load between the inner and the outer flywheel. The leading failure of the bearing is vibration caused by misalignment of the pressure plate and the DMF dowel pins during clutch replacement. Lastly, you have the damper springs. The # 1 cause of failure is engine run-ability problems. A poor running engine, if not attended to, will change the resonant frequency of the engine, causing the engine to run in an undesirable RPM range. When this happens, it overworks the damper springs, causing premature failure.

The function of the DMF is to isolate the torsion crankshaft spikes created by high compression ratios. If you can isolate the torsion spikes, you will eliminate the possibility of damage to the transmission gear teeth. The DMF isolates the frequency below the normal engine operating rpm's during startup and shutdown

Unquote

Hope this is of some use

←

I also have had horrendous problems with the flywheel on my rav 4 so much so I am taking Toyota to court on 15th September 2006 Toyota are denying there is a problem but obviously from logging on to this site I realise I am not alone. My flywheel broke just after the warrenty expired yet despite the dealer having the vehicle in 3 times prior to expiry they diagnosed various different faults and even though I knew it was not a clutch drag problem like they insisted as I have been a mechanic for thirty years I went ahead and had a clutch fitted at another garage as Toyota was too expensive of course when the clutch was removed there was nothing wrong with it ,it was indeed the flywheel broken. I have tried unsucessfully to reach a compromise but Toyota are denying all knowledge of my conversations regarding this problem and the fact that all the dealers told me that yes they had had numerous complaints regarding the flywheel breaking even after only a few miles even though the vehicles were not used for towing.

[Elizabeth McCullagh]

Guys.

Have also experienced this problem. This is what I replied to an earlier post on the same subject. FYI I work as Prototype Vehicle Technician for a well known car company.

"I have a 2000 Avensis 2.0 D4D, 49,000 miles. About a month ago it developed the same symptons as your Rav4. No vibrations but noise just like you describe. Saw bits of swarf falling out of split line betwwen engine and gearbox so decided to remove the gearbox. On doing so found nothing wrong with clutch or gearbox so removed Dual mass Flywheel. The two parts of the flywheel are held together by (I think) 8 Tx40 screws. 2 of these screws had fallen out and the rest were loose. The ones that had fallen out were making the rattle and had caused damaged to the sandwich plate. Was lucky in the respect that I managed to find a replacement flywheel from a car which had only covered a few hundred miles at a cost of £400. This was the only complonent that needed replacing as no damage to gearbox or clutch components was evident. After getting the car back on the road I contacted a few Toyota dealerships and all of them swear they have never heard of this problem. Strange as a quick search on the net showed at least 5 instances of the problem and after reading your post I am convinced this is a major problem for Toyota. After examining the failed flywheel I am of the opinion that the screws came loose only as a result of some other failure within the Flywheel mechanism. This failure resulting in the screws being shocked or vibrated loose. Interesting to note that as far as I am aware most Dual Mass Flywheels have the two parts riveted together and I have never seen a screw set up before.Dual Mass Flywheels have been known to fail on other makes of cars but only after 100k miles or so. Not the 50k these seem to at.Will be very interested to see if you find the same things wrong with yours. Also shop around various dealers when looking for a replacement flywheel as they vary significantly in price. Cheapest I found was around £550. Would not fit a second hand one unless you fiind a very low miler like I did. Good Luck and look forward to hearing what you find.

[ivan taylor]

Guys.

Have also experienced this problem. This is what I replied to an earlier post on the same subject. FYI I work as Prototype Vehicle Technician for a well known car company.

"I have a 2000 Avensis 2.0 D4D, 49,000 miles. About a month ago it developed the same symptons as your Rav4. No vibrations but noise just like you describe. Saw bits of swarf falling out of split line betwwen engine and gearbox so decided to remove the gearbox. On doing so found nothing wrong with clutch or gearbox so removed Dual mass Flywheel. The two parts of the flywheel are held together by (I think) 8 Tx40 screws. 2 of these screws had fallen out and the rest were loose. The ones that had fallen out were making the rattle and had caused damaged to the sandwich plate. Was lucky in the respect that I managed to find a replacement flywheel from a car which had only covered a few hundred miles at a cost of £400. This was the only complonent that needed replacing as no damage to gearbox or clutch components was evident. After getting the car back on the road I contacted a few Toyota dealerships and all of them swear they have never heard of this problem. Strange as a quick search on the net showed at least 5 instances of the problem and after reading your post I am convinced this is a major problem for Toyota. After examining the failed flywheel I am of the opinion that the screws came loose only as a result of some other failure within the Flywheel mechanism. This failure resulting in the screws being shocked or vibrated loose. Interesting to note that as far as I am aware most Dual Mass Flywheels have the two parts riveted together and I have never seen a screw set up before.Dual Mass Flywheels have been known to fail on other makes of cars but only after 100k miles or so. Not the 50k these seem to at.Will be very interested to see if you find the same things wrong with yours. Also shop around various dealers when looking for a replacement flywheel as they vary significantly in price. Cheapest I found was around £550. Would not fit a second hand one unless you fiind a very low miler like I did. Good Luck and look forward to hearing what you find.

Many thanks for reply and yes please would apprecaite it very much if you could sent tech info prior to court case my address is 1 Bently Road Ipswich IP1 5QA I will of course refund postage - sorry am having trouble sending to your e mail address regards Ivan Taylor I will of course keep everybody posted as to how it goes in court

[anon1]

we had had the same problem with our flywheel. (yes we have a 2002) currently on 52,000miles. A 'phone call to Toyota a couple of days ago, and we were told Toyota had extended the warranty on the car to cover the flywheel problem. unfortunately our car is in a local garage in bits (I was towed there by the RAC) and they charge £150 tow charge -to get to our local Toyota dealer. ALSO local toyota dealer are not happy about fixing it, and will "look at the car to see if it qualifies for the warranty"

I have just got off the 'phone with Toyota again, wanting a copy of the warranty and to find out if I would be covered by the warranty - several held calls and two different departments later... no-one seems to know, or deal with such warranties... HELP!

[helipadhead]

GOOD NEWS

Thanks to this forum I managed to diagnose the failure of the dual mass flywheel in our four year old 52 plate, 36000 mile D4D. Our local dealer confirmed the fault when the car was serviced and advised that the clutch and freewheel needed replacement. They also said that it would be in the order of £1500 to£1600 but would see if Toyota UK would help or bear the whole cost - given that the car was of low milage, age and that it had always been serviced by Toyota. Within a couple of days we were advised by the garage that Toyota had a recall with regards to this failure and the clutch and dual mass flywheel would be replaced free of charge.

We have today collected our RAV after the two day replacement of these parts. Toyota have fitted a revised flywheel (it has a new part number) and a new clutch - waranteed for 3 years.

The car is now notably different - smoother when pulling away, no horrible squeeling noise or grunting at max power and the engine vibration we had become used to is no longer present.