Whats My Bhp

[denzilst202]

i have a 94 celica st202 2ltr gt import auto.

does anybody know what bhp i have at the wheels. i cant find the info anywhere. i was told it had 167bhp but it feels like it only has about 130bhp. really disapointed in the performance of it really. i used to have a vectra v6 and it felt twice as quick.

any help would be greatful.

cheers!

forgot to say the limiter HAS been taken out.

[Hrun]

Big Hairy Person?

:)

Sorry, don't know matey

[Bibbs]

what block is in it ..

about 120-130 bhp for a 3s-FE, and about 155-175 for a 3s-GE

[mikeb]

At the wheels, through an autobox and tyres, you're probably down to about 110 - 130 hp.

Book figure is 173 bhp at the flywheel. Assuming you have a 3s-ge and not a 3s-fe.

[denzilst202]

i have the 3s-ge and theres no way the auto box will drop the bhp from 170 to 130. mabey theres a fault in the car somehwere.

[MIP]

You know all the power is at the top end eh? It'll pull quite happily at low rev's with a kind of flat line of torque, but its only past 3k rpm and beond that the engine totally changes its tune and takes off.

Its all about the rev's and making good use of the gears, 2nd is good for 70mph. Not that you have that much control with the auto-box...

[mikeb]

i have the 3s-ge and theres no way the auto box will drop the bhp from 170 to 130. mabey theres a fault in the car somehwere.

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Says who?

Even a manual box on a 173 hp 3s-ge will eat at least 25 bhp (at peak torque). You asked for a power at the wheels, so for that you also need to subtract all the losses:

Transmission

Tyres

PAS pump

Alternator

Air con (turn it off!)

Maybe even water and oil pumps (who knows how toyota got 173 bhp, on an engine dyno - all this stuff could have been remote).

Tyres are probably the most significant, just look at the difference in figures between a rolling road dyno and a hub dyno.

So lets say your engine is in very good condition and is making 170 hp, lets also say that the autobox is almost as efficient as the manual, and that the book figure included oil and water pump losses, then this would be my guestimate:

Engine: +170

Tranny: -30

Tyres: -15

PAS: -5

Alternator -5

= 115 hp at the wheels.

That sounds about right to me for an auto ST202.

[MIP]

He's not dyno'd it though, he's just guessing a hp figure by the sounds of things. More like a complaint that the car feels down on power rather than being too specific about the horsepower I think.

Either there's somthing wrong, or he's not driving it in the powerband I guess.

Though, any manufacturer stock horsepower quote is at the flywheel is it?

[mikeb]

I was a bit miffed why he was asking about hp at the wheels.

Depends what vectra we are comparing it to, the new vectra has a 3.2l v6, which is clearly going to outperform an ST202 auto.

Even the older model v6 will feel different to a celica, the v6 is all about torque, but the 3s-ge is tuned for revs.

There might be something wrong with it, but we still don't even know if it's got a 3s-ge or a 3s-fe engine (which would explain things).

[denzilst202]

I was a bit miffed why he was asking about hp at the wheels.

Depends what vectra we are comparing it to, the new vectra has a 3.2l v6, which is clearly going to outperform an ST202 auto.

Even the older model v6 will feel different to a celica, the v6 is all about torque, but the 3s-ge is tuned for revs.

There might be something wrong with it, but we still don't even know if it's got a 3s-ge or a 3s-fe engine (which would explain things).

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i already stated that i have the 3s-ge. all i'm saying is that i'm very dispointed in the cars performance weather it be and auto or not and its that bad that i assumed there may be a fault in there somwhere. the old v6 vectra was a 2.5 with 169 bhp. it was very torquey but after all it was a v6. i had a dash today with my friend who has the same car (standard) but it was a manual and to be honest there wasnt really much in it at all. perhaps i just have high expectations. the othere reason i asked is because a friend of mine has a bmw 318 and he handed my as to me on a plate and i though it was very strange.

[GT4 BOOSTER]

do you have an eco button , if so use it , you'll find performance gains there.

[chris202]

i have the 3s-ge and theres no way the auto box will drop the bhp from 170 to 130. mabey theres a fault in the car somehwere.

←

Says who?

Even a manual box on a 173 hp 3s-ge will eat at least 25 bhp (at peak torque). You asked for a power at the wheels, so for that you also need to subtract all the losses:

Transmission

Tyres

PAS pump

Alternator

Air con (turn it off!)

Maybe even water and oil pumps (who knows how toyota got 173 bhp, on an engine dyno - all this stuff could have been remote).

Tyres are probably the most significant, just look at the difference in figures between a rolling road dyno and a hub dyno.

So lets say your engine is in very good condition and is making 170 hp, lets also say that the autobox is almost as efficient as the manual, and that the book figure included oil and water pump losses, then this would be my guestimate:

Engine: +170

Tranny: -30

Tyres: -15

PAS: -5

Alternator -5

= 115 hp at the wheels.

That sounds about right to me for an auto ST202.

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so my 3sfe is about 60 bhp then?? :P

cant be far off it

[mikeb]

so my 3sfe is about 60 bhp then?? :P

cant be far off it 

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Yes, that's probably about how much usable driving power is left after all the losses. Well, maybe more than 60, perhaps more like 80 hp?

Back on topic:

According to the specs for the v6 vectra it does 0-60 in 8.5s. I'm sure an ST202 should be about the same. But the 4 pot will need more revs to feel fast. The 'push you back in the seat' sensation is caused by torque and not power. The v6 will have shed loads more torque than the celica, so that's probably where you're perception of the difference comes from.

[paseoGT4]

the 3s-ge is built by Yamaha - ie people who make motorbike engines - so as every1 else has said its designed to be revved - its a bit like a honda engine - with an auto box ur not going to have much control over this - turn off overdrive and it should help you go through the revs a little more.

[denzilst202]

the 3s-ge is built by Yamaha - ie people who make motorbike engines - so as every1 else has said its designed to be revved - its a bit like a honda engine - with an auto box ur not going to have much control over this - turn off overdrive and it should help you go through the revs a little more.

←

the box has manual control over the first 3 gears. i can redline it up to 3rd then the autobox takes over.

[GT4 BOOSTER]

you need manu button up and pwr button down - for a more powerfull drive

[Jones~32]

Says who? 

Even a manual box on a 173 hp 3s-ge will eat at least 25 bhp (at peak torque). You asked for a power at the wheels, so for that you also need to subtract all the losses:

Transmission

Tyres

PAS pump

Alternator

Air con (turn it off!)

Maybe even water and oil pumps (who knows how toyota got 173 bhp, on an engine dyno - all this stuff could have been remote).

Tyres are probably the most significant, just look at the difference in figures between a rolling road dyno and a hub dyno.

So lets say your engine is in very good condition and is making 170 hp, lets also say that the autobox is almost as efficient as the manual, and that the book figure included oil and water pump losses, then this would be my guestimate:

Engine:  +170

Tranny:  -30

Tyres:    -15

PAS:      -5

Alternator -5

= 115 hp at the wheels.

That sounds about right to me for an auto ST202.

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So how much power would a GT4 ST205 have at the wheels? :bookworm:

[GT4 BOOSTER]

So how much power would a GT4 ST205 have at the wheels? :bookworm:

←

enough to make your sphinkter tighten up.

[Jones~32]

So how much power would a GT4 ST205 have at the wheels? :bookworm:

←

enough to make your sphinkter tighten up.

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Is it likely to be a similar loss to the GT? making it about 180ish at the wheels?

[GT4 BOOSTER]

180 will do me if thats what i'm pushing at the wheels .0-70 has never come as fast since i rode the bullit at flamingoland

[spotipus]

my 94 gt is dynod at 142 at the wheels if that helps.

3sge manual

that was before the decat exhausts went on but i cant see them making that much difference maybe 3-5 bhp .

more than happy with the torque and power.

LEAD IN THE FOOT SMILE ON THE FACE

[spotipus]

and if i was overtaken by a BMW 318 i would have to be parked up :D

it will NEVER happen

[Jones~32]

and if i was overtaken by a BMW 318 i would have to be parked up :D

it will NEVER happen

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Funny, i think i could give a 318 a good run for its money in my GXI!

[denzilst202]

and if i was overtaken by a BMW 318 i would have to be parked up :D

it will NEVER happen

←

Funny, i think i could give a 318 a good run for its money in my GXI!

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not if its an 318is u wont they have the same spec as the 2 litre and thats the one that beat me. the bottom block is the same one used in the m3.

[spotipus]

and if i was overtaken by a BMW 318 i would have to be parked up :D

it will NEVER happen

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Funny, i think i could give a 318 a good run for its money in my GXI!

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not if its an 318is u wont they have the same spec as the 2 litre and thats the one that beat me. the bottom block is the same one used in the m3.

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check out the figures mate

if your celica is mechanically sound that bm should be a fast receding dot in your rear view mirror plus they dont handle anywhere near as well and that is first hand advice .

i had a 320i its the only car ive ever wrote off just doesnt compare in any way :!Removed!: