Reliability

[STS89]

I am thinking to buy a T Sport this year, either a Celica or a Corolla it depends on what I see when I start looking.

I have read a few threads on here about gearbox troubles, and was wondering if this is the experience of 1% of owners or 90%?

I have owned a few Japanese cars (MR2 Turbo, Mitsu Cyborg R)and have always had to rebuild the gearboxes after a year or so, is there a problem with the Corolla / Celica T gearbox?

Any other problems I should know about / look out for in your experiences?

Thanks in advance

Matt

[Spuffington]

I, personally, can't recommend the Celica T-Sport enough - it's quick.......0-60 in 7.2 and reasonably frugal, returning mostly 30+mpg in a mix of driving. The handling is superb, safe even on the limit and always provides loads of feedback.

I've had it just a year, and bought it as a 4 month old demontrator, so it's not old enough to comment about longterm reliability, but I'll pass on my experience so far and some points to watch out for generally:-

- auxillary drive belt tends to need replacing regularly due to squealling etc - had mine replaced once already and probably need another at my 20k service in 3 weeks time;

- the rear hubs tend to rust quickly - again, mine are being resprayed/hammerited at the next service;

- gearbox is notchy when cold. Shifting into second is difficult when cold, but otherwise ok;

- brake discs can warp and score easily, replace with aftermarket ones as soon as able;

- lift bolts on pre-facelift Celica's (190's and T-Sport) prone to failure, this was pre-2002/3. Subsequent facelift models have had stronger lift bolts fitted at factory;

- 16" wheels on base models have been prone to corrosion and replaced under warranty;

- I understand servicing costs can be expensive between £250 - £500 for major services i.e. 20k & 40k

I think that's pretty much it. Sounds like a load of probs, but most are pretty easily rectified and done under warranty if you buy a newish one, or from a dealer.

Other than that I would totally, whole-heartedly recommend this car. It has amazing feedback on B-road blasts and also cossets you on longer journeys. It can get a little loud on the motorway though, especially as 80mph reads 4,000rpm in 6th gear.

But for the camlift alone it's worth buying!!

[PaulT]

I've had the Corolla from new for three years, 30000 miles. It's had three services, six new tyres and just recently new (Toyota) front discs and pads.

No problems to report, ownership experience has been pretty good really.

Paul.

[chenks]

bear in mind as of january 1st 2006 you can no longer buy a corolla t-sport brand new... they have been taken off the market and replaced by the Compressor.

[STS89]

Thanks for the replies, I was thinking to buy a 2 to 3 year old car so will most likely be paying for any repairs myself. I test drove a 2002 Corolla and it was very good, the controls felt like a new car and the engine was superb on lift, a bit like my old Mitsu Cyborg R though not a tenth as loud!

If the gearboxes are good once warm then thats good enough for me as I always warm cars up well before hard use.

One questionthough, what are "lift bolts"?

[Spuffington]

I think they're referred to as 'lock pins' in the below article. If outside of warranty and pre-facelift, you might want to think about replacing the lift bolts/lock pins every 20k - only costs around £50 in labour and parts with Toyota or relatively simple to do yourself if you're handy with a spanner.......the instructions are on the website somewhere.

Better to get them changed rather than wait for earlier ones to break - as a broken bit can get in the oil reservoir and can take 4hrs of labour to remove............. = muchos wonga!!

Let's know what you end up with though

HOW DOES LIFT WORK???

Toyota's Variable Valve Timing and Lift (with intelligence)

The VVT-i portion of the system continuously varies intake valve timing throughout the rev range by hydraulically rotating the camshaft relative to its drive gear. Note that VVT (without the "i") did not do this continuously. The VVL portion of the system is similar to Honda's VTEC system, incorporating two distinct cam profiles. However, the actual mechanism is quite different. Both cam lobes operate a single wide rocker arm that acts on both intake or both exhaust valves. A needle-bearing roller on the arm follows the low-rpm, short-duration, low-lift lobe, forcing both valves to open and close on that profile. The roller design and roller bearings on the rocker arm pivot help to minimize valvetrain friction. The high-rpm, higher-duration, longer-lift lobe rubs on a hardened steel slipper follower mounted to the rocker arm with a spring. Even though the high-rpm lobe is pushing down further than the low-rpm lobe, the spring absorbs the extra movement. At 6000rpm, the ECU sends a signal to an oil control valve at the end of the camshaft that puts oil pressure behind a lock pin in the rocker arm, sliding the pin under the spring-loaded slipper follower, locking it to the rocker arm and forcing the arm to follow the high-rpm cam profile.

[STS89]

Thanks Spuffington,

Are they an item that needs changing every 20K or so, or will a one off upgrade to the new stronger pins sort it out?

Is the Celica a better performer than the Corolla, I know its a bit lighter but is the performance and handling difference noticable?

Would most Corolla owners prefer to own a Celica if they cost the same and the practicality of a hatchback wasn't needed?

Thanks for your help guys

[Spuffington]

As far as the lift bolts go - you probably are ok with just replacing them once (in the pre-facelift cars) with stronger bolts. I'm not sure what I'm going to do - probably, given that it's only £50, once the warranty has run out, I'll probably pay for it to be done every 20k or so just for my own piece of mind. Certainly when I mentioned it when I booked the car in for service, the guy told me not to bother whilst it was under warranty.

Corolla vs. T-Sport

I think the Jury is out on the issue of speed.......I set up a question in the Celica T-Sport forum, which shows that perhaps that Corolla has exactly the same performance as the Celica.

As far as handling goes, the Celica handles better because it's set up to be a 'sportscar' rather than a hot hatch. The Corolla is set up for comfort and practicality. For one thing, the Celica has a lower centre of gravity and the chassis is superb.

Corolla T-Sport vs. Celica T-Sport - all down to preference I guess, but I think price does come into it. There's a good £4-5k between the list prices of the Corolla T-Sport & Celica equivalent, which is a lot of money in anyone's books.

I bought my Celica because I wanted sports car handling, with sports car looks. I've done the hot-hatch thing but to me (personal preference only) I wanted something which stood out from the crowd rather than a wolf in sheep's clothing. Other people may be exactly the opposite.

[bert.tsport]

ive got an 03 corolla, and a friend has a Y plate celica , ive driven both, very much the same speed really.. the celica definately handles better, but no good for getting the kids in the back . i find the celica gearbox a bit notchy, but the corolla clutch takes a bit of an art to get used too.. my missus has been learning to drive in mine and she really struggles on hill starts and reversing., gets a bit smelly

i also prefere the better all round visibilty in the corolla , easy to keep an eye out for plod and parking in the city.

hope this helps you decide

[Spuffington]

I agree with Bert on the practicality and visibility issue.

Only thing I'd point out is that the Celica was facelifted in 2003, not just aesthetically...........the suspension, and trim was updated. This had the result of making the car handle even better than pre-facelift models (i.e. a Y reg will not handle as well as an 03).

[PaulT]

The Celica has a better, multi-link, independent rear axle which the Corolla doesn't, and along with the lower centre of gravity this makes the handling a lot more sporty.

However, the Corolla has five seat belts, fits five adults quite comfortably and has more boot space. And is quite a bit cheaper :D

If you want to spend the money and can put up with less space, the Celica is a top handling car. Otherwise it's the Corolla, and stick to out-running beamers on the straights :D

Paul.

[Zuban]

I originally wanted a celica, but couldnt afford one at the time, but managed to stretch to a corolla. Knowing full well the difference's in handling due to the design, but that didnt bother me as i knew that with either car, when i could afford it i would be fitting coilovers, so it handles pretty fantastically now.

If I could afford it and space wasnt an issue i'd have the celica everytime, but the corolla is also good! :D

[Snert]

Yeah, I still lust after a Celica TSport but there was no way the missus was going to allow the extra 5k or so to buy one :(

Never mind, the 'rolla is a fine car and because if it's rather dull looks (relatively speaking lads) the missus never gets bothered by Nova boys when she's out shopping.

Snert

[accylad]

I've got an 04 plate Corolla T-Sport which was one of the first new 'revamped' models built in June 2004.

I've had 3 stereos because each previous one has subsequently stopped working. Some of the trim hasn't fit properly from day 1. I've had a new dashboard beacuse the other one warped above the radio (I have a gap developing in the new dash as I speak). The steering is sloppy and unbalanced, even though Toyota have checked the 4 wheeel alignment 3 times since it was new. It drinks petrol, even if I drive like a nun.

On the upside it holds the road like a limpit and when the lift kicks in its awesome.

Prior to this car I had a Celica which had even more problems, including shaking steering despite Toyota balancing the wheels, replacing the alloys due to flaking and raining in from both front windows.

On Monday the Corolla is being part exchanged for a new Honda Civic and I cant wait to see the back of it.

Don't let me put you off though, my mate has a T-Sport Celica and swears by it.

Accylad

[Si-001]

I've had a new dashboard beacuse the other one warped above the radio (I have a gap developing in the new dash as I speak).

Accylad

This problem has been there since start of production and is still apparent in cars coming off the production line now mate

[mr_miller]

Current Thread on buying a tsport

Don't know if you have seen this thread ^

[Blacksheep]

I've owned a yaris for 4 yrs and its been totally trouble free my missus runs around in it now its done 55,000 miles and other than consumables and getting it serviced we haven't done a thing to it not even a lightbulb.

I've also owned a T Sport for 18 months done 19,000 miles and its also been totally trouble free, i personally can't recommend the cars highly enough, for me its always a good sign when i can't remember how to pop the bonnet....

[R6TH M]

Have to say i feel the same about my yaris t sport dude ^^ I would have a corolla t sport anyday if i could bear to part with my yaris!

I originally wanted a celica, but couldnt afford one at the time, but managed to stretch to a corolla. Knowing full well the difference's in handling due to the design, but that didnt bother me as i knew that with either car, when i could afford it i would be fitting coilovers, so it handles pretty fantastically now.

If I could afford it and space wasnt an issue i'd have the celica everytime, but the corolla is also good! :D

out of interest, what coilovers did you fit to the corolla?

[Zuban]

Have to say i feel the same about my yaris t sport dude ^^ I would have a corolla t sport anyday if i could bear to part with my yaris!

I originally wanted a celica, but couldnt afford one at the time, but managed to stretch to a corolla. Knowing full well the difference's in handling due to the design, but that didnt bother me as i knew that with either car, when i could afford it i would be fitting coilovers, so it handles pretty fantastically now.

If I could afford it and space wasnt an issue i'd have the celica everytime, but the corolla is also good! :D

out of interest, what coilovers did you fit to the corolla?

Kw variant 2's, height and rebound adjustable, there really excellent, stainless steel jobs that look massive and chunky compared to the originals. Car is up for sale in the next couple of weeks if anyone is interested!

[R6TH M]

What year is it? Any pics??

My bf is after a phase 2 t sport and will have to travel over to the mainland as theyre rare as hens teeth here! :(

[Zuban]

Its one of the early ones, a 52 plate , with 40k on the clock, remus backbox and kw v2 coilovers, Has just been serviced, just had all the brake pads changed, four new tyres, I have changed the oil every 3k miles . I setup the suspension myself -0.5 camber for decent wear, handles nothing like a stock t-sport, you go into a corner and plant the foot, you feel the vsc system cause the brakes to grab the inside wheel and the nose comes round like its got an lsd, its quite strange, and i havent yet reached the limit, its extremely balanced in the corners, very adjustable. I have some pictures of it when i had the 17 inch rota slipstreams in black on it. but since sold them.

[R6TH M]

any piccies of the 17s please?? wouldnt mind a look

[Zuban]

any piccies of the 17s please?? wouldnt mind a look

I got a few more I can email if you want.

[R6TH M]

Could ya please? R6TH_M@hotmail.com

[STS89]

Hello chaps,

Thank you for all your input into this thread, but I have bought a car from another make, mainly due to the excellent trade in deal offered by the Renault dealer.

In making my decision I drove the T Sport Celica and Corolla, The Civic R, ST170, Astra Coupe Turbo, RX8, Clio 182 and just for a laugh, a 147 GTA!

Of all the cars I drove, the T Sport has got the sweetest engine by far, but the Corolla steering and handling needs a bit of work for it to be a true great! I highy reccomend them to anyone and definately dont pay the premium for a Civic R over one, because you are getting the 2nd best engine for £3K more!

Anyway, this is my new beastie, for anyone who hasn't been in one its a Clio 182, its rough and ready compared to the Toyotas, but boy does it move, Autocar figures are 0-60 in 6.3 and 0-100 in 17. They also recorded the fastest ever 100-0 braking time in it, better than anything else ever made, so dont tailgate one!!!