Tap Tap!

[bhinderharminder]

Hi Guys,

I've got a 2002 E12 'rolla 1.6vvti, the problem is,

when the car is started in the morning or after a long period, there is a tapping noise coming from the engine. Also when the engine is warmend up, at around 1k rpm there is a kind of growling noise coming from the engine but once the revs get above 2k, the noise is not there. Would anyone know what the problem is? ive done an oil change on the car about a month ago and its been like this for about 3months.

Cheers

[bhinderharminder]

anyone?

[Sooty]

you could try changingthe oil filter as i think the noise is valve tappets. if they are hydraulic then it takes time for oil pressure to reach the adjusters

[bhinderharminder]

you could try changingthe oil filter as i think the noise is valve tappets. if they are hydraulic then it takes time for oil pressure to reach the adjusters

hi,

i cahnged the oil filter when i changed the oil. Also what dose "valve tappets" mean please?

[Sooty]

it means the little arms that are pushed by cams on the cam shaft and rotate on a shaft to push down on top of the valves to open them. there is always a small gap between the valves and rocker arms. oil pressure can be used to move a small cap between the valves and arms to adjust the gap

[bhinderharminder]

it means the little arms that are pushed by cams on the cam shaft and rotate on a shaft to push down on top of the valves to open them. there is always a small gap between the valves and rocker arms. oil pressure can be used to move a small cap between the valves and arms to adjust the gap

thanks for the reply sooty, i have a few more questions if u dont minde,

1- is the valve tappets noise harmfull to the engine, is it dangerous!

2- how do i fix it

cheers

[Black Knight]

The 1.6 VVTi engine doesn't have hydraulic tappits. The cams act directly onto a shimless lifter (a solid lump of metal that sets the gap between the valve and lifter) that opens the valve.

Can't tell from your description what it could be making the noise. If it is the lifters though the tapping itself probably isn't a problem it's why it's started that is.

Firstly when does it make the noise? In neutral or in gear? With the clutch pressed in or not? That'll narrow it down to transmission, clutch or engine.

[bhinderharminder]

The 1.6 VVTi engine doesn't have hydraulic tappits. The cams act directly onto a shimless lifter (a solid lump of metal that sets the gap between the valve and lifter) that opens the valve.

Can't tell from your description what it could be making the noise. If it is the lifters though the tapping itself probably isn't a problem it's why it's started that is.

Firstly when does it make the noise? In neutral or in gear? With the clutch pressed in or not? That'll narrow it down to transmission, clutch or engine.

it makes the noise all the time, even if the car is in gear or neutral. Ive walked roud the car and the noise is coming from the engine, (too me it sounds like the front-bottom part of the engine but i could be worng)

[Black Knight]

Does the tapping noise speed up as the engine speed increases?

It could be tappet noise but I'm still not certain by a long way. If you're pretty handy with a spanner I can tell you how to check them? It's not that difficult you just need to be careful and confident

[yaris781]

are you sure its coming from the bottom of the engine? is it a loud knocking noise? if its from the bottom of the engine it is possible you could have serious engine damage. take it to a garage and get them to check. have you got any warranty on your car?

[nrgizerbunny]

it could be the shells on the big ends gone, they can cause the con rods to wobble slightly and then you get a tapping noise. the fact it happens at 1000rpm could be because thats the resonant frequency of the pariculator problem.

[Black Knight]

I was going to try and clear some the obvious ones before worrying the guy :)

[bhinderharminder]

Cheers for the help guys, but the best thing i can do is go and see Mr T.

as my car is out of warrenty (may-2005) would toyota charge me if i asked them to have a look at the car?

Thanks

[yaris781]

yeah they will charge you to have a look at it

[bhinderharminder]

yeah they will charge you to have a look at it

do you know how much?

thanks

[kingdeacon]

have you ever run it low on oil? sounds like it could be your big ends

[nrgizerbunny]

£60/hour i thnk the going rate is up here. if the car is under warranty they won't charge to look at it.

How many miles has it done?

[bhinderharminder]

£60/hour i thnk the going rate is up here. if the car is under warranty they won't charge to look at it.

How many miles has it done?

its a 2002 year on a 02 plate, so its out of warrenty now (ran out in may 2005), its done 21k miles. And has full toyota service history (star city toyota)

[yaris781]

£60/hour i thnk the going rate is up here. if the car is under warranty they won't charge to look at it.

How many miles has it done?

its a 2002 year on a 02 plate, so its out of warrenty now (ran out in may 2005), its done 21k miles. And has full toyota service history (star city toyota)

star city have high labour rate take it to westlands in stourbridge, they are just as good

[bhinderharminder]

£60/hour i thnk the going rate is up here. if the car is under warranty they won't charge to look at it.

How many miles has it done?

its a 2002 year on a 02 plate, so its out of warrenty now (ran out in may 2005), its done 21k miles. And has full toyota service history (star city toyota)

star city have high labour rate take it to westlands in stourbridge, they are just as good

ok thanks, i was going to take it it listers in coventry as they are a bit closer, i'll ring them both up and get prices,

cheers

[madvinegar]

Hi guys. I am new in the forum so I'd like to say hello to all of you!

I do not know if I have the same problem with harminder, so I'll take it from the beginning.

I have a corolla E12 1.4 liters, year 2004 with 35.000km. Recently, I have started to hear a clapping noise coming from the top of the engine. This noise keeps going on no matter if the engine is cold or warmed up and it accelerates as the engine revs up. I have taken the car to a dealer to check it and they have told me that they did a pressure test on the cylinders and found that especially cylinder No4 has low pressure so this means that I have problem with my valves and more specifically that I need to change all 8 exhaust valves. They said that the problem was created because of my driving and the piston hit the valves and damaged them. So, even if I am within the 3 year warrantee, I will have to pay everything myself...

I was surprised because I haven't done any misuse to the car and apart from that the car was running fantastically. (i.e. if I didn't hear the clapping sound I wouldn't notice anything!).

Anyway, since I know a little bit about engines, I didn't leave the matter there. I took the car to a local workshop where a very good friend of mine works, to check the car. We did a pressure test to the cylinders and all of them were fantastic! We have checked the sparkplugs and all of them were white and extra clean! We have tested my exhaust emmisions and everything was fine! Plus that my engineer friend drove the car and said that it was going great! His opinion, as you said, is that the noise comes from the valve tappets which need to be re-adjusted/replaced.

Can you please tell me your opinion about all the above? If I had indeed damaged exhaust valves wouldn't I also had to have dirty sparkplugs, bad pressure on cylinders, high exhaust emmision rates plus a car that wouldn't run properly?

I do not know what to do... I will try to go to another dealer and see what they will tell me. I am afraid that the dealer I went is trying to avoid paying for all this even if I am within the warrantee...

I thank you very much for your attention and sorry for the long post but I am in dispair...

[Black Knight]

Depends how badly bent the valves are.

If you down shift at too high speed it'll smash the valves off the pistons bending the valves. The problem is that now they'll occasionally stick (causing a clattering noise as the piston helps it shut!).

Good news is since the pistons are softer than the valves you can see the impact marks on the pistons (if you take the head off).

No impact marks on the exhaust side of the pistons and it means the dealer is talking nonsense.

Marks on the exhaust side and it means you need to watch your gear changes in the future

If you get the dealer to do the work then you can check easily and prove one way or the other

[madvinegar]

Thanks for the answer Black Night. I agree with you, however I have some questions.

1) If the downshift was very slight, is it possible that the valve tappets were effected and not the valves? So, with a change of tappets and re-adjustment of them the problem will be fixed?

2) If the valves are very very slighlty bent, however my cylinder pressure is good, my exhaust emmisions are good and my sparkplugs are clean, do you think that with new (more thick) tappets the problem will be fixed?

3) In a case like this, all 8 of the exhaust valves will have to be replaced or just 2 of them (from one cylinder)?

I thank you very much in advance for your assistance and reply.

[Black Knight]

The problem with the pistons hitting the valves is that the pistons are hitting the valve. this bends the end of the valve that sticks out of the valve guide at the bottom (won't really do anything to the tappets). this bends the valve so really the only way to solve the problem is to replace the valves.

The problem will only get worse until a valve brakes and then it's bye bye engine.

Having had a think about it though I would have expected the time from valves being damaged to the engine failing would be very short. How long ago did the noise start (miles and time)?

[Joebloggs]

£60/hour i thnk the going rate is up here. if the car is under warranty they won't charge to look at it.

How many miles has it done?

its a 2002 year on a 02 plate, so its out of warrenty now (ran out in may 2005), its done 21k miles. And has full toyota service history (star city toyota)

Toyota World at Star City charge £70 an hour