Corolla Stalling @hot

[flywill]

I am a new member here and experiencing difficuties with my 94 corolla standard model. About 2 months ago after sitting for 4 days, it is hard to start. finally by press gas petal hard, it started and after that it seems running fine. about two weeks ago, the car died in a parking lot when reversing. But it can re-start and drive smoothly, only feels a bit more viberating in stop light. Days later, the car will die when stoped in parking lot or at light stop. but can be avoid by pressing a bit gas pedal. Since then, i have replaced spark plug, air filter, does not help much. Used carbulator cleaner to clean throttle plate and idle control valve. The car stayed healthy for two days and all the symptom came back. After that I checked Oxygen sensor, coolant temperature sensor, idle air intake sensor, throttle position sensor, idle control valve, seems they are all in the spec. Tried to locate EGR valve and vacuum switching valve, but can not locate them in my car according to harness car repair manual. On the throttle body upside, I only see 1 vacuum hose instead of 3/4 to the manual.

currently, the car can start each time, and will not stall at cold. when car temperature goes to normal and stopped or at very low speed (<5 mph), wheather it is in gear or not does not matter, the car dies sometime. right after that, car can be re-started without any difficuty. No diagnostic error code found by jumping TE1 and E1. I can tell when the car will die, the car will viberate more at that time, by applying a bit accerating pedal, the car will not die.

Any suggestion will highly be appreciated!

[dawesy]

sounds like your carburettor needs setting up. yo may find a fix by incresing the idle speed. there should be a screw on the side of the carb for this, or you may be able to adjust the throttle cable to give the same effect.

is your car a manual or automatic transmission?

[flywill]

sounds like your carburettor needs setting up. yo may find a fix by incresing the idle speed. there should be a screw on the side of the carb for this, or you may be able to adjust the throttle cable to give the same effect.

is your car a manual or automatic transmission?

it is automatic transmission and with fuel injection. there is no carburator.

another issue is that the car is due for "test-only station" smog-check in california, so i am afraid b y adjusting idle speed still fails smog check. more suggestions?

[dawesy]

sorry thought you said it had a carb.

have you checked the ignition timing as this could be out.

have you changed grade of fuel?

check also the HT leads and rotor arm and dizzy cap.

might also be worth removing the throttle body and giving it a good clean.

unsure as to the EGR as UK rollas dont run it but maybe you can find someone localy with thesame car and check their pipes. other than that check that all pipes are secure and you have no air leaks

[flywill]

sorry thought you said it had a carb.

have you checked the ignition timing as this could be out.

have you changed grade of fuel?

check also the HT leads and rotor arm and dizzy cap.

might also be worth removing the throttle body and giving it a good clean.

unsure as to the EGR as UK rollas dont run it but maybe you can find someone localy with thesame car and check their pipes. other than that check that all pipes are secure and you have no air leaks

Thanks for your quick reply.

No fuel grade has been changed.

I already cleaned the throttle body using carb-cleaner in the first place. After first time usage, it improved quite a lot and the symptom did not come back until 2 days later. no more help by spray carb-cleaner in the throttle body and idle valve control whole in throttle boday. Does it indicate someting? i can feel the car going to die, the engine shake more before it goes to die and i can feel sputter in the muffler. what does this point to?

can you tell a bit more detail how to check ignition timing?

will check dist/rotor again. I checked it 2 months ago when the car has start problem, did not see anything wrong. Later the car was started by press accerate pedal hard during ignition. after that the car can start right away every time even after stalling/die in stop. are those two symptom related?

btw, my car does not have a tachometer, is there a good way to tell what is the rpm speed to adjust idle speed exept buying a tachometer :)

[Mick24]

Any idea when the Fuel Filter was last changed ?? it can give fuel pressure problems especially in a hot Climate.

Check the ignition timing with TE1+E1 terminals jumped - should be an ID sticker under the Bonnet(hood) with the Ignition Timing and Idle Speed on it.

Borrow a tacho. if you can,and hook it up to the -IG terminal of the Diagnostic Link for a readout of RPM.

Make sure all accesories are turned off( air con. etc) when setting the Timing and Idle Speed.

Hope some of this helps.

[flywill]

Any idea when the Fuel Filter was last changed ?? it can give fuel pressure problems especially in a hot Climate.

Check the ignition timing with TE1+E1 terminals jumped - should be an ID sticker under the Bonnet(hood) with the Ignition Timing and Idle Speed on it.

Borrow a tacho. if you can,and hook it up to the -IG terminal of the Diagnostic Link for a readout of RPM.

Make sure all accesories are turned off( air con. etc) when setting the Timing and Idle Speed.

Hope some of this helps.

I guess fuel filter was never replaced after it was manufactured. I just bought one and going to change it today. will post the result.

just curious, if the problem comes from fuel filter, should't it be more a problem when the engine in high rev? but the car only stalls/dies at very low speed or stopped, most often when in reversing.

[Mick24]

just curious, if the problem comes from fuel filter, should't it be more a problem when the engine in high rev? but the car only stalls/dies at very low speed or stopped, most often when in reversing.

Wont make much difference if at idle or full throttle - Fuel Pressure is approx. 31 - 37 psi on tickover and 38 - 44 psi at higher rpm's. If the system pressure is low due to a clogged filter,faulty fuel pressure regulator or the check valve on the fuel pump stuck open, when you are manouvering the vehicle at tickover speeds and have a high load on the system ( air conditioner on,power steering loading the engine) there is a chance it will stall out.

If the vehicle has an Automatic Transmission,the Idle speed could be too low,Transmission fluid low or you might have a problem with the Idle Up system for high load/low rpm situations.

Let us know how you get on with it.

[Mick24]

Scanned this - might not be exactly the same as your model but gives a good Overview :

[flywill]

just curious, if the problem comes from fuel filter, should't it be more a problem when the engine in high rev? but the car only stalls/dies at very low speed or stopped, most often when in reversing.

Wont make much difference if at idle or full throttle - Fuel Pressure is approx. 31 - 37 psi on tickover and 38 - 44 psi at higher rpm's. If the system pressure is low due to a clogged filter,faulty fuel pressure regulator or the check valve on the fuel pump stuck open, when you are manouvering the vehicle at tickover speeds and have a high load on the system ( air conditioner on,power steering loading the engine) there is a chance it will stall out.

If the vehicle has an Automatic Transmission,the Idle speed could be too low,Transmission fluid low or you might have a problem with the Idle Up system for high load/low rpm situations.

Let us know how you get on with it.

changed fuel filter today. but did not make much difference.

will try to tune up the idle speed, i guess it should work. every time the car hesistate, which is the sympton before it dies, it can return to normal as long as i press accerator a little. The bad thing is the car do not have a tachometer on it, have to adjust it roughly. any suggestion how to make it accurate. Using an external tacho will do the job, but did not see any place to borrow.

checked other sensors, Idle air control sensor, throttle position sensor, coolant temp sensor, o2 sensor, map sensor, which are all in spec. According to other members' post here, i suspect it is likely related to EGR valve. But i can not locate the EGR modulator and EGR valve per to hayness manual at all in my corolla. On top of the throttle body, only P connector, according to the repair manual, it should have 4 hoses connectd. any idea?

and one more sympton, is that the car hesitate more obvious when i switch gear, especially to reverse. does it give any indication?

[flywill]

just curious, if the problem comes from fuel filter, should't it be more a problem when the engine in high rev? but the car only stalls/dies at very low speed or stopped, most often when in reversing.

Wont make much difference if at idle or full throttle - Fuel Pressure is approx. 31 - 37 psi on tickover and 38 - 44 psi at higher rpm's. If the system pressure is low due to a clogged filter,faulty fuel pressure regulator or the check valve on the fuel pump stuck open, when you are manouvering the vehicle at tickover speeds and have a high load on the system ( air conditioner on,power steering loading the engine) there is a chance it will stall out.

If the vehicle has an Automatic Transmission,the Idle speed could be too low,Transmission fluid low or you might have a problem with the Idle Up system for high load/low rpm situations.

Let us know how you get on with it.

how can i tell "have a problem with the Idle Up system for high load/low rpm situations." ?

[dawesy]

try turning the air con on and off. you should notice the engine rpm rise.

then with air con off, turn on healights and rear heated window, again rpm should rise. then with the lights and heated window off try turning the steering wheel, the rpm should rise again.

also it is not unknown for the idle control valve to stick. the tend to get coated in a sticky black oil residue over time hence why i said remove and clean.

for checking the timing you will need a timing light, connect according to manufacturers instructions. bridge TE1-E1 then check the timing marks on the crank pulley, the timing data should be on a sticker under the hood. do the check with hot engine. if timing is inccorect then you need to first mar the original position of the distributor then undo the 2 bolts on the distributor and turn slowly and watch the timing marks. if they go further out then turn in opposite direction until correct.

[Mick24]

The Haynes shop manuals are not always Model specific,especially when it comes to California Emission Control Systems - what is the exact Engine Code of your Corolla?? (4A-FE,5S-FE ??)

[flywill]

The Haynes shop manuals are not always Model specific,especially when it comes to California Emission Control Systems - what is the exact Engine Code of your Corolla?? (4A-FE,5S-FE ??)

It should be 4A-FE. It is non-california model. btw, how can I tell exactly if it is 4afe or 7afe, from the power the engine can generate?

Things getting worse today. I drove on freeway for 15 miles without a problem today. Then after 1 hour rest, the car can restart but drive weired, can feel viberating more and less power. After about 0.5 mile drive, the car died. After that, hard to start. every time can restart if crank more times. but will die out pretty soon, even press accerator does not help as it did before. I have to have it towed. Does the new fuel filter I changed yesterday make things worse? Or fuel pump problem?

More interestingly, after the car cool down, it seems can start and drive smoothly as before. But I did not try much, just move the car so that the two truck can pull it to the deck. Will that give any clue which part most likely wrong? I did not catch diagnosis error code even after the car died on the road.

[Mick24]

You can find the Engine Number on the Vehicle ID plate or on the Engine block ( look at the block under the Distributor ).

BTW - What mileage has the Corolla done ??

Replacing the Fuel Filter should only help things( you have fitted it the right way round? - should be marked OUT to the hose going to the fuel rail).

When the problem happens,does the engine cut out straight away( loss of spark - Ignitor or electrical problem) or does it splutter and cough and slowly die out ?(fuel starvation or Emission Control fault,excessive fueling- coolant temp.sensor, Leaking Injectors).

When the fault happens,and if there are no fault codes stored in the ECU at the time of the fault - you need to see if you have a Spark at the plug leads.

If you have a Spark,you need to see if you have fuel at the Fuel rail or the outlet on the Fuel Filter. *Caution needed with Hot Engine and Fuel Vapour*.

That will tell us which area of the Engine to look at.

[flywill]

You can find the Engine Number on the Vehicle ID plate or on the Engine block ( look at the block under the Distributor ).

BTW - What mileage has the Corolla done ??

Replacing the Fuel Filter should only help things( you have fitted it the right way round? - should be marked OUT to the hose going to the fuel rail).

When the problem happens,does the engine cut out straight away( loss of spark - Ignitor or electrical problem) or does it splutter and cough and slowly die out ?(fuel starvation or Emission Control fault,excessive fueling- coolant temp.sensor, Leaking Injectors).

When the fault happens,and if there are no fault codes stored in the ECU at the time of the fault - you need to see if you have a Spark at the plug leads.

If you have a Spark,you need to see if you have fuel at the Fuel rail or the outlet on the Fuel Filter. *Caution needed with Hot Engine and Fuel Vapour*.

That will tell us which area of the Engine to look at.

The corolla has only 83K miles on that.

I replaced the fuel filter in the same position as the old one was. should have no problem. and the car ran for 20 miles freeway without problem.

when the problem happens, it engine did sputter and cough, then slowlydie out. at that time, no matter how i press the accerator it does not help, the engine acts lacking power. what will the major cause for this kind of symptom?

I will check the spark today. and will update the status.

how can I check the fule rail? should I open the connection in the fuel filter outlet side and activate fule pump to see any fuel came out? I remember by jumping TP1 and another pin in the diagnosis slot will activate the fule pump. I can hear the pump sizzle noise.

[Mick24]

You have to narrow it down to Ignition or Fuel problems.

Next time it splutters to a stop,see if you have a spark at the HT leads first - if no spark is there it could be an Ignitor fault or even the electrical part of the Ignition switch making and breaking.

If you have a good healthy "blue" spark then check for fuel :-

Place a cloth over the fuel filter outlet pipe and slowly loosen the banjo bolt on the union ( a healthy Fuel circuit will have approx. 37psi in it and will spray all over the place). Jump terminals FP and +B briefly to run the pump - you should have a good supply of fuel there.

If you have a poor fuel supply,then check the fuel pump,check valve on the fuel pump outlet and the fuel pump pickup filter.

The Fuel pump relay often gives problems and this can be temporarily eliminated by leaving the jumper wire in the FP and +B position to bypass the relay. DO THIS WITH CAUTION AS THE PUMP WILL BE RUNNING ALL THE TIME - YOU HAVE NO SAFETY CUT OUT IN EVENT OF AN ACCIDENT.

[flywill]

You have to narrow it down to Ignition or Fuel problems.

Next time it splutters to a stop,see if you have a spark at the HT leads first - if no spark is there it could be an Ignitor fault or even the electrical part of the Ignition switch making and breaking.

If you have a good healthy "blue" spark then check for fuel :-

Place a cloth over the fuel filter outlet pipe and slowly loosen the banjo bolt on the union ( a healthy Fuel circuit will have approx. 37psi in it and will spray all over the place). Jump terminals FP and +B briefly to run the pump - you should have a good supply of fuel there.

If you have a poor fuel supply,then check the fuel pump,check valve on the fuel pump outlet and the fuel pump pickup filter.

The Fuel pump relay often gives problems and this can be temporarily eliminated by leaving the jumper wire in the FP and +B position to bypass the relay. DO THIS WITH CAUTION AS THE PUMP WILL BE RUNNING ALL THE TIME - YOU HAVE NO SAFETY CUT OUT IN EVENT OF AN ACCIDENT.

I did some practice the evening. I have the car running at idle for 1.5+ hrs without a single die out. But do feel a bit more shaking than normal. and sounds like there is some air leaking noise, but can not tell exactly where. If I unplug one of the fuel injector connector, the car more like it happened yesterday, viberating more and hesitate more, but did not die out.

checked spark plug, looks all four have clear sparks. And I checked the dist cap and rotor, they are clear.

I do noticed one thing, the PCV connection to both engine and air intake manfold are quite loose, especially on the engine side. Plan to buy a new one. followed the haynes manual, loose the hose on the manfold side, with engine side connected, did not see air blow out from the hose when car in idle. Will faulty PCV cause stalling/die problem?

[Mick24]

Any loose hose/vac.hose on the Inlet manifold can cause an air leak giving you a weak Air/Fuel ratio causing stalling. The Grommet on the Cam cover which the PCV sits in can perish/crack and give a loose fit - they can be bought cheaply - fit new clips to the PCV valve hose each end.

You can check for air leaks on the engine when its running by spraying WD40( or a similar brand of rust penetrant/moisture displacer) around all the hoses and Inlet Manifold - if the engine speeds,you have a Air leak - the WD40 will get sucked into the engine through the air leak and burn in the Combustion chamber,hence the engine speeding up.

Dont spray it around the Distributor as it can Ignite and burn your face/hands and what ever else is in the way.

Have PM'ed you

[flywill]

changed PCV valve and its grommet/hose tonight, and can not make the car to stall. looks similar performance as last night. Will drive more tomorrow to test it.

sprayed WD40 around hoses to intake manifold, did not notice engine speed up. not sure how much should I spray? will that cause the hose cracked?

[Mick24]

Just needs a fine "mist" sprayed around the hoses and Intake Manifold,

to see if the engine speeds up due to an air leak.

[flywill]

it has been two days since i changed the PCV valve and its grommet. The car ran smoothly for two days, but starting to show the same problem today. It has not stalled yet, but I can feel it when stopped in red light, from time to time it will hisitate/viberating more for a second, then come to normal. after a while, same symptom came back again. Any hint?

[flywill]

since change the PCV, I have put 100 miles on the corolla. also, i applied a bottle of fuel system cleaner when last time fill gas. so far, no stall happened. but once a while, the engine runs roughly during drive, but will come back to normal after a short period of time. i felt the car jumps a bit, or some kind of pushing, but just last a couple of seconds. other than that, just feel the car viberating a bit more than it was, but it drives fine. any idea?

[flywill]

Stalling problem bites back again. In the past months, I did not drive the corolla much, since end of last month, it occationally stalled when backing in parking lot. As weather warming up(I am not sure whether it is the cause), it happened more often. Today, it died on the way even can not restart. After couple of try, I opened the air filter case, and when I pull the aif filter out, some black smoke came out under the airfilter with strong gas smell? Did it indicate something? Then even leave the air filter case open, I can barely start the car, or it died right after it started up. It cranked fine. Any clue? Any suggestion will be highly appreciated.

since change the PCV, I have put 100 miles on the corolla. also, i applied a bottle of fuel system cleaner when last time fill gas. so far, no stall happened. but once a while, the engine runs roughly during drive, but will come back to normal after a short period of time. i felt the car jumps a bit, or some kind of pushing, but just last a couple of seconds. other than that, just feel the car viberating a bit more than it was, but it drives fine. any idea?

[wongat]

flywill, have you fixed your stalling problem? I have a 1993 Corolla that is exhibiting your symptoms. I have looked at the Camry stalling forum and have gleaned this list of possible fixes with some of my notes.

1. coolant temperature sensor - $40 part - may just change

2. positive crankcase ventilation (pcv) valve - cheap part - may just change

3. exhaust gas recirculating (egr) valve - disconnect to see if problem goes away

4. idle air control (iac) valve - try cleaning with carb cleaner

5. distributor - possibly test resistance

6. electronic control module (ecm) - behind glove compartment - need exact numbers to match if replacing

I bought the Toyota service manuals for my car online. Once I receive them, I'll start going down my list.