Quad Throttle Bodied Paseo 5efe

[threepot]

Thought i'd add a quick post on here, i've been running a huge topic on the ukseoclub.co.uk site on this. Heres a few photos of my ITB install so far. Its running nice, good performance gains, pleanty of roar too.....

I've post a video with sound soon....

[paseojim]

Looking amazing mate you gotta bring them over to show me, good chance you will cave your first customer

Jim

[Wild]

I seriously want a set these. It could be a couple of months before I can afford them, but when I can, they are mine. :D

[riko666]

ditto...though i wont make it permanent, ill have to make sure i can continually swap over my beloved acis manifold

[sera_beetle]

THey look great!

Where did you get them from? and how much? i would think sera owners would like to know this.

Tim

Oh p.s Clean your engine bay :P

[riko666]

they're gixxer throttlebodies tim its a common platform to use, im surprised no-one tried it beforehand!

[toyotasera.co.uk]

I would be concened about heat - what are you using to duct cold air in?

[*rollaboy]

as andrew said, fabricating a sealed arbox around the itbs might be a good idea. and a small bonnet vent.

it does look good though. what ecu upgrade have you carried out?

[toyotasera.co.uk]

Suzuki GSX-R throttle bodies

Seem to be dirt cheap on eBay.

[riko666]

i think a cowl induction hood would probably be better suited, less aesthetically disturbing and just as good....its just gettinbg someone to make one

[threepot]

well the throttle bodies are from a suzuki gsx-r, i've put my own manifold together and vacume log to feed the brake booster. Its currently running on the toyota management just fine. I wired in my apexi last night and with an hours worth of tuning i've made even better power gains.

They have really transformed the performance of the car, it pulls like a train from 4500rpm till the red line ready for the next gear. The car pulls out to overtake loads better, it really pulls hard all the way. The sound is amazing too.

Not being funny but i think there is alot of hype over cold air feeds, under the engine bay is a huge hole that I feel gets plenty of cold air flow. But if you wanted a front mounted cold air feed you could use the filter box from the GSX-R then use some ducting to feed it.

If anyones genuinely interested in a set then get in touch with me. I can make them to order but Paseo Jim is first in line

[riko666]

put me somewhere on that list matt :P and i thought you said no reserving

[toyotasera.co.uk]

Threepot - am interested. Have a 5E-FHE engine that I can try it on.

Getting rid of heat is whats most important - the engine bay is a hot place, and getting ambient heat down will be beneficial. Sometimes putting washers between bonnet and hinges helps by allowing more air to get out.

There is also a lot of rubbish written about heat wraps. The idea of heat wrap is to protect other items close by from heat. However this is contrary to good exhaust design where the idea is to cool the gas as quickly as possible (the gas charge then contracts) and wrapping the exhaust in a thermal blanket stops this. On a 5E series engine where the exhaust is well away from critical areas then this will only serve as a defecit.

[riko666]

i heard contrary andrew? the idea is to not keep it cold, cause it will make the gases denser and hence will move slower out of the exhaust and cant remember the rest of why thats " unwanted " but yeah...

oh, and its a good idea if you test it on andrew first, as soon as he gets setup done on the 5efhe, im next

[threepot]

Heat wrapping the exhaust is worthwhile, but I feel that adding 2 metres ducting for the air intake will hurt intake harmonics and add unnessary drag for a measly couple of degrees reduction in IAT sensor readings! I feel thats not really a worthy trade off. Longer air intakes help lower RPM torque but hurt top end power, short intakes help the top end but see a drop in low end drivability from my experiements and reading. Lower temps help throughout. How about you cut a hole in the bonnet, add a scoobie bonnet scoop then make a box round the filters that seals upto the bonnet!?! Subtle, maybe not, benefical, i think so!

I'm with you on the bonnet spacing, thats my next little plaything, especially as my intake is right at the back. I will also be removing the rubber seals and replacing my radiator with a half sized, double thickness one from a honda civic VTi. That should get loads more cool air round the bits that count.

If you want a set then PM me, i need some funds to buy all the bits and peices as i have ran out of money for a few weeks, I also need to know exactly which TPS sensor you car runs on, and what sort of time scale we're looking at. I could get a set together for this weekend if I have a deposit up front to cover the materials/resources.

yeah, you dont want exhaust gasses to cool excessively in the exhaust, that one of the purposes of exhaust heat wrap - keep the hot gasses hot, and the outside enviroment cool.

One of the issues with over sizing an exhaust system is that flow velocity drops to a point that allows the gases to cool to much making them become more dense towards the rear of the system thus reducing in velocity which hurts scavaging and causes more resistance

[toyotasera.co.uk]

Well I spent a lot of the weekend talking to people specifically about thermal coatings for exhausts, and they all said that it was only to protect other components in the exhaust area from heat, NOT to improve exhaust efficiency. So heat wrap and thermal coatings are not helping exhaust efficient. However they are helping keep underbonnet temperatures down and helping in this area.

[threepot]

the difference in external temps will be of a vastly greater scale to the internal temp differences. you are quite right, it is for the benefit of everything outside of the exhaust, not the gas inside. But the heat that gets to the underbonnet air comes from somewhere, and if that heat transfer is reduced then it must still be in the gases I guess, which all in all wont be a bad thing!

Exhaust wraps for some reason also help noise, after I wrapped a single silencer short side exit and manifold system I build a few years back, the sound was significatly quieter.

[*rollaboy]

How about you cut a hole in the bonnet, add a scoobie bonnet scoop then make a box round the filters that seals upto the bonnet!?! Subtle, maybe not, benefical, i think so!

this is what i was reffering to......it wouldnt be difficult to make. and it would probably make a big difference.

the itbs run fine off the standard ecu? how bad!!!

if they are off a 750cc engine, would they be straining to flow enough air in a 1.5??? obviously not i suppose, according to your account of how it drives now.

[threepot]

rollaboy, get your calculator out for one minute.....

think about this:-

600cc capacity gets used ever 2 rotations of the engine on a 4 stroke

now times 0.6 (litres) by say 12,000rpm... That'll give you the amount of litres of air used in a minute at 12,000rpm

600cc * 14,000rpm = 8400 Litres per minute

1500cc * 7,000rpm = 10500 Litres per minute

so only a measly 2000 Litres per minute different even though the different engine capacity.... but lets take this further:-

those 10500 Litres per minute (@7000rpm) have to go through a 50mm throttle body as standard,

50mm diameter, area being

79mm square.

Instead with the GSXR bodies we have 4 x 42mm throttle bodies,

66mm squared each, or

263mm square for all four.....

I'd say thats a significant difference :)

If i didnt have a headache i'd work out the velocity difference!

[toyotasera.co.uk]

I think you'll find that the area of a circle measuring 50mm is not 79mm^2. I thought area of a circle was radius squared multipled by pi. Radius being 25mm, hence 625 x 3.1415 = 1963mm^2

Its capable of flowing a lot more air than the standard throttle body which from memory is 60mm

Passes Threepot some Paracetamol

[threepot]

jesus... how could I make so many errors, i havent even devided the CC throughput by 2 to give the 4 stroke through put. I cant even use Pi either from the looks of it.

I had a very bad day yesterday, my gearbox has failed on my paseo, i have no cash, and I woke up with a headache I didnt shake off till I got to sleep last night. If someone can correct my maths feel free. My paseo stock throttle body is 50mm Andy?!

[riko666]

thought they were 45mm? and the 4efte is 52mm?

[toyotasera.co.uk]

the 4e-fte one I just measured is 50mm. 5e-fhe ones are also 50mm. Both these measurements taken behind the butterfly. They taper from 55mm down to 50mm.

I have a 5e-fhe gearbox which will go on a Paseo if you want it...

[jabran200]

that won't fit a 4e-fe then? and if it isn't would it be possible for me to do my own project? need something to d0 when i'm free now.

[toyotasera.co.uk]

i'm sure it would fit a 4e-fe, just not a 4e-fte