Duel Mass Flywheel Failed Twice & Other Woahs

[KennyUK]

I wonder if any of you guys have ever been in a mess like I am in at the moment with my RAV.

In brief:

On 4 February 2005 I purchased a 2002 Toyota RAV4 2.0 D4D GX from Listers Toyota of Boston, Lincolnshire under Toyota’s Approved Used Car Scheme with 26,552 miles on the clock. I did all the usual checks including a HPI and the car seemed to be good so I went ahead and bought it for £13,989.00. In addition to this, I also took out Toyota’s own Gap insurance and signed up to Listers own Toyota service plan.

Middle of November, 2005

The Dual Mass Flywheel failed and was replaced (under dealer’s warranty) together with a new clutch by my local Toyota dealer – Inchcape Toyota of West Bridgford, Nottingham. In the first instance I contacted the dealer I bought the car from (Listers of Boston) but they said they would only be able to look at the car if I was able to transport it to them. The RAC would only transport it to my nearest Toyota Dealer so that’s why it ended up with Inchcape.

Late January, 2006

The Dual Mass Flywheel failed yet again and was replaced (under parts warranty) together with a new clutch by my local Toyota dealer – Inchcape Toyota of West Bridgford, Nottingham. When questioned as to why this had happened again, I was told it was probably a faulty part that had been supplied to them by Toyota.

The car did not feel the same once I got it back. The engine sounded different to me, the clutch bite and gear change felt different and also the fuel economy seemed to have gone down.

In the first instance I contacted the dealer I bought the car from (Listers of Boston) and yet again they said they would only be able to look at the car if I was able to transport it to them so off it went to Inchcape.

Thursday 23rd February, 2006

Returning from a short journey and about a mile from home, I noticed that when I tried to accelerate up through 3rd gear, the car would not go past the 38 – 40MPH stage. It seemed like it was being held back. No matter how much you depressed the accelerator pedal the engine would not rev any higher. There was also a slight burning smell and I noticed the Engine Block shaped “Take Vehicle To Dealer” warning light had illuminated on the dash. By this time I was nearly home so using a combination of high gears with low revs and some coasting I got home and contacted the dealer I bought it from. Listers YET AGAIN said I would have to transport the car at my own cost to them before they would look at it and pretty much gave the impression they didn’t want to know.

I then contacted Inchcape Toyota and arranged for Green Flag recovery to transport the car to them. As of today, they have yet to contact me regarding this latest fault and I have had no offer of a courtesy car.

I contacted Customer Services at Toyota UK to complain about the catalogue of faults and voice my general feelings only to be told that although Toyota UK would be very happy to act as, quote “a go-between”, the contract of purchase is between the dealer and myself and it is them I should look to for resolution. Being blunt: they have “passed the buck”.

It may be worth mentioning that as I was able to negotiate an extended dealer warranty of three months at the time of purchase, the dealer warranty is still in effect and does not run out until May of this year.

I contacted the Office of Trading Standards for advice and they said that I may have a claim under the “Sale Of Goods Act” that states that goods must be: fit for the purpose for which they are sold, and in a fit state to be sold including free of any defects or faults. Trading Standards allocated me a reference number and advised me to write to Listers and reject the car. They told me to either ask for a refund of the purchase price or, more realistically ask for the car to be exchanged for another of the same standard, value and mileage. They also said to mention to Listers the fact that Trading Standards are aware of the situation and have asked to be kept informed. They also said that if Listers does not resolve this dispute they may choose to become involved directly.

My basic question to you is can you offer any advice or point me in any direction?

Can you advise on where I may stand or what action I may take?

I have kept a detailed log of events since the first Fly wheel failed – who I spoke to and at what time etc. I have also managed to find out that Mr Terry Lister is the Managing Director of the Listers Group and I have his office address – is it worth writing to him directly?

Should I threaten or actually write to people like BBC TV’s Watchdog?

I am really grasping at straws I know and it is so hard for this not to become personal. Before I bought the RAV, for years I drove a battered old Peugeot 405 with over 150,000 on the clock and it gave me fantastic fairly trouble free motoring. I had to literally save every penny I could to buy the RAV and even then I was only able to do so thanks to a loan from my partner. I researched every source I could find before making a RAV4 my choice of 4X4. I bought numerous 4x4 and Car magazines (including What Car) and checked review after review.

As I live out in the country and the RAV is my ONLY form of transport it is vital and completely essential to my life that it is 100% reliable. Also, as I am a self employed DJ and use the RAV to travel to and from gigs I need my vehicle in order to earn my living. Each time the RAV is off the road due to its latest fault I am loosing money in lost fees or car hire. This car really does have a huge impact on my life either good or bad and I originally made the choice to ensure the very situation I now find myself in did not happen in the first place. Everywhere I looked said the RAV4 was a great car, a good workhorse and extremely reliable. Also Toyota as a company has a good reputation for great service and happy customers.

As you can imagine I now feel totally different. I am both livid and horrified. My emotions run from utter despair to a steely determination to resolve matters in my favour. I have no confidence in my car what so ever or in the fact that my money was spent wisely.

Any help or advice would be gratefully accepted and thank you for reading this.

[JITSU]

I remember a similar case last Year on one of the Mitsubishi Forums. They had faults with their Purchase and trading Standards got involved and the Garage sorted out the problems asap. I would try and get Trading Standards involved If I were you,they do carry alot of weight ;)

[spwolfx]

fuel economy should have nothing to do with your clutch setup. It probably has a lot more to do with time of the year. They might be able to adjust it a bit or not, to change "the feel" but you are comparing 3 year old clutch feel with new one, just give it a run in.

however, rest of the problems are probably due to bad diagnostics and repair of your local dealer. I definetly suggest that you take it somewhere else. Your dealer that you bought the car from is not personally responsible for your warranty, Toyota network is. So Toyota will tow your car to your nearest dealer and thats it.

I suggest that you take it to different dealer and let them fix it properly. Rav4's are pretty damn reliable. I have seen few clutches fail on diesels but those were all on drivers with very hard foot who didnt realize that they are driving an diesel and that they are not supposed to slip the clutch at 2,000 rpm to drive around town...

[helipadhead]

GOOD NEWS

Thanks to this forum I managed to diagnose the failure of the dual mass flywheel in our four year old 52 plate, 36000 mile D4D. Our local dealer confirmed the fault when the car was serviced and advised that the clutch and freewheel needed replacement. They also said that it would be in the order of £1500 to£1600 but would see if Toyota UK would help or bear the whole cost - given that the car was of low milage, age and that it had always been serviced by Toyota. Within a couple of days we were advised by the garage that Toyota had a recall with regards to this failure and the clutch and dual mass flywheel would be replaced free of charge.

We have today collected our RAV after the two day replacement of these parts. Toyota have fitted a revised flywheel (it has a new part number) and a new clutch - waranteed for 3 years.

The car is now notably different - smoother when pulling away, no horrible squeeling noise or grunting at max power and the engine vibration we had become used to is no longer present.

[ahmurray]

Kenny,

Hope you get a successful outcome - if you do get offered a replacement car go for the petrol Rav - mine has been 100% reliable over 18 months and is also a 2002 model. Stick with it, use trading standards and make a damn nuisance of yourself - i have found complaining loudly in the showroom tends to get a brisk response!

helipadhead - am i right in thinking the flywheel problem is only for D4Ds or should I get my petrol rav checked out when it is next serviced in December?

Cheers,

Ali

[helipadhead]

Ali,

I believe the dual mass flywheel is only fitted to the D4D engine. Its purpose is to isolate the gearbox and transmission from the large torque fluctuations or "spikes" that go with diesels. In doing so, the fatigue life of the box and transmission is imporved and, noise levels in the car are reduced.

J

[Uncle Bob]

Kenny, i feel you need to have a solid plan in place, that way the dealer can see you are serious and you won't be mucked about, the trading standards have given you sound advice, go back to the dealer and say you are rejecting the vehicle as it is not fit for it purpose, don't take the vehicle back if its now at the dealer, ask to speak to the managing director (or as high up as you can get ), tell them trading standards are involved, then last thing is, if they offer you a replacement vehicle make sure it of similar value and condition.

On a side not, www.autoexpress.co.uk are always interested in vehicle problems, ask to speak to their legal team for help.....good luck :) .

[stay_aliveuk]

Had a nightmare with a Audi TT a couple of years ago. Went to trading standards, local solicitor, top gear, even got a centre spread in a local newspaper and got no where. They kept repairing it but it kept going wrong. Finally lost my patience after eight months and hit the MD in the showroom in front of a lot of people. Looking back now I can laugh about because it was like one of those westerns when a stranger walks in a saloon and everyone goes quite. But it was no fun at the time.

My research learnt me that you have little rights with a second hand car and those you do are virtually worthless.

My advice, and I would consider it strongly, is get out of the car ASAP, trade it in, sell it, whatever, and take the loss on the chin. The situation will take over your life and ruin it for that duration.

The RAV is a damn good car, but a combination of factors in your case has dealt you a wrong one.

Good luck, you will need it