Run Flat Tyre T180

[Manxrav]

Run-flat tyres ( the Toyota concept) and MASSIVE depreciation, now can you see the other reasons me and my Dad got rid of our T180

Clare

[shcm]

Thanks for the kind offer Kirk, I have a feeling that our next Rav 4 meet might be to visit you!

......and as Bridgestone are in Warwick/Leamington I believe, free entry for adults to Warwick Castle before the end of September:

http://www.warwick-castle.co.uk/freevoucher/

(I know somebody that has used this and they reckon it's genuine, no strings or BOGOF or gimmicks etc.)

So, you could have a bit of RAV jousting later on as well :D (You can definitely count me out of that bit by the way).

Why does the US V6 engined variant with similar performance to our T180 have normal tyres?

yeah, is US high sensitivity to punctures/4x4 rollover a touchy subject?

[sywy]

free entry for adults to Warwick Castle before the end of September:

http://www.warwick-castle.co.uk/freevoucher/

(I know somebody that has used this and they reckon it's genuine, no strings or BOGOF or gimmicks etc.)

Thanks for that shcm. Just printed some off. Another place to take the kids during the summer holidays :)

[shcm]

Thanks for that shcm. Just printed some off. Another place to take the kids during the summer holidays :)

You may have to pay for the kids (I suppose that is the catch - kid's must be accompanied by an adult), but it saves some cash. Obviously, If there's more than one adult you may have to go through the gate separately as well.

[bothwell_buyer]

First of all, in reading thru this, I see that Steves wife broke down. I hope she is feeling better now. If not, I can send her some of the tablets I take. Not that they work that well as I'm on a waiting list to go onto another waiting list for the NHS Psycho service.

With my number 1 RAV, I suffered a flat front tyre some years ago - thats on the 215/70 x 16 Dunlop. There were 4 adults in the car, and we were doing 70mph on the M73, just where it takes a 90 degree bend off the M74. I only knew as a guy behind kept flashing his lights!!! Maybe this was T's first crack at run flats? Then, in 1994, the Dunlop was the only tyre you could buy and if you were lucky enough to get a flat, it took days to order up a new tyre at £200 + fitting. If a run flat is £250 then compared to back then its not too bad.

However nowadays, I've moved to 18" alloys - having 2 different sets with 2 different sizes. The latest lightweight set is a lower profile which has a much harder sidewall......and puts up with my standing quarter miles. So strong are these that I use bald tyres that are not road legal, and 1 even has a bulge in the tyre. However, with the hassle of switching sets, I'm going down the road of getting new tyres for the lighter alloys so it saves trailering the car to the sprint track.

With 14 years of experience with the 3 door RAV, I can see no benefit to run flats at all. A good quality alloy wheel should be fine. There's enough gimmicks with the RAV nowadays - eg 5 doors instead of 3 for a start.

[bothwell_buyer]

Seems the new 3 series BMW uses Bridgestone runflats which cost £300. 2000 BMWs are off the road due to a backlog of orders for tyres. Porsche also use large rear Bridgestone runflats, and again theres a shortage of these tyres - and Porsche do not allow other tyres to be fitted as it invalidates the warranty so what porsche owners do is to hire another car whilst their own awaits the tyre, and charge the hire to Porsche....its costing Porsche a fortune.

In chatting about runflats, my friendly tyre supplier sees no benefit to using a runflat that is out of stock for replacements; can only be used for 50 miles; and as it has hard sidewalls, gives a harsher ride. Couple that with only dealers can fit them, and they cost up to £250 - all to allow Toyota to make savings on providing spare wheels will lead obviously to the resale value of these cars plummeting as the word gets round - as it will.

The solution is to switch to normal alloys and tyres. I can say, having had a flat tyre yesterday with my larger 18" wheel and tyres, that low profile tyres have a harder sidewall anyway. I drove 3 miles back to base with a flat front tyre which was undamaged apart from the valve which got damaged from the caliper - i hadn't noticed it was a long valve.

[2.2 D4D]

i bought 6 mth old land cruiser for same price as new T180 full size spare wheel.

on recent trip from somerset to skegness got 486 miles from 68 litres. + auto box

tyres cost £87.00 (road tax more expensive but insurance cheaper) so maybe

something to think about. i tow 23ft caravan to france every year + would not

consider this type of trip without spare wheel (57 LC4 D4D) I must add its about

26 mpg around town but huge boot + low range gears

[Moonraker]

Hi everyone. I wish I'd read all these comments about RFTs before I shelled out the thick end of £27000 buying my new T180 6 weeks ago. I live in the wilds of Anglesey and if the information I was given a couple of days ago is correct the nearest Toyota dealers who can fix RFTs to me both entail round trips of about 140 miles. I havn,t yet found any local non Toyota places where I could get replacement tyres and am waiting for an email from Bridgestone to that effect. No points to Premier Toyota at Llandudno Jct for not letting me know that they couldnt change the tyres when I bought the car. Its a shame because after 6 weeks and 2000miles Im extremely pleased with the car. The comfort is excellent. Build quality is to Toyotas usual high standard and load space that makes for an extremely versatile vehicle. My trip computer fuel consumption figures exceeds the figures that I have seen on these pages matched by the pumps. I got 51mpg on a 150 mile motorway trip at 55-60 mph with 2 of us on board but to be honest at 70 mph which I suppose is the speed most would travel at the consuption drops to the high 30s. Does anyone know what tyres the new SR180 uses. If the tyres are not the same as the T180 it would say a lot.

[chatman]

They are the same as the T180 you have......

[john1944]

They are the same as the T180 you have......

No amount of praise for the T 180 can justify the disappointment of the RFT. A brand new car, £27k, and within 1 second you could be stranded and for many hours. I think the Toyota guys are falling short of their responsibilities in not advising customers of this problem, after all if they told potential customers of what they faced, they would earn respect and in all probability get a sale of an alternative model.

As regards the onboard computer, as has been said before, do a manual check of your fuel consumption, the electronic devise will be inaccurate.

[Robert6920]

Hi everyone. I wish I'd read all these comments about RFTs before I shelled out the thick end of £27000 buying my new T180 6 weeks ago. I live in the wilds of Anglesey and if the information I was given a couple of days ago is correct the nearest Toyota dealers who can fix RFTs to me both entail round trips of about 140 miles. I havn,t yet found any local non Toyota places where I could get replacement tyres and am waiting for an email from Bridgestone to that effect. No points to Premier Toyota at Llandudno Jct for not letting me know that they couldnt change the tyres when I bought the car. Its a shame because after 6 weeks and 2000miles Im extremely pleased with the car. The comfort is excellent. Build quality is to Toyotas usual high standard and load space that makes for an extremely versatile vehicle. My trip computer fuel consumption figures exceeds the figures that I have seen on these pages matched by the pumps. I got 51mpg on a 150 mile motorway trip at 55-60 mph with 2 of us on board but to be honest at 70 mph which I suppose is the speed most would travel at the consuption drops to the high 30s. Does anyone know what tyres the new SR180 uses. If the tyres are not the same as the T180 it would say a lot.

Hi Moonraker, and welcome. I don't have a Rav4 with RFT but I suspect that, in a couple of year's time, you will still be thrilled with your new purchase. The RFTs may be an issue if you get a puncture. I know that sounds rather odd, and frankly is stating the bl**din' obvious, but the fact of the matter is that motoring isn't a 100% guaranteed way of getting you from A to B - nothing is!

As far as the inconvenience of a puncture is concerned, ok, so maybe it wouldn't affect me with "ordinary" tyres, but the vagaries of life are such that this morning, minding my own business and on the motorway into work, I had to stop in a queue of traffic - the woman behind me stopped (just, I can see the look on her face in my rearview mirror even now, twelve hours on) but the one behind her couldn't stop, and so she bashed into the one behond me who, in a graphic demonstration of Newton's laws, bashed into me. Result - my lovely Rav4 is disappearing for three days next week :o to have the back bumper and TTE skirt (she's a "her") replaced, repainted and her rear end buffed up.

Don't worry overly about the RFTs. And I'm sure you'll enjoy driving what for me (after 41 years of driving - 38 of which I've been legally old enough to drive!) is the best vehicle I have owned.

Happy motoring!

[local hero]

A brand new car, £27k, and within 1 second you could be stranded and for many hours.

John, I am really not having a go here! i do not have an axe to grind as i do not have a T180. but surely the point of the RFs is that you are not stranded, you can continue your journey albeit at a reduced speed, and get home, or to a dealer, if my wife had a puncture late at night i would be happier that she was able to get home than i would be at the thought of her changing a wheel at the side of the road, and lets face it any component of your car can breakdown and leave you stranded, I appreciate the monopoly toyota appear to have on repairing RFs and the absorbitant cost, but it is this we should be complaining about, not the actual run flats, If i had (could afford) a T180 i would just enjoy it for the great car it is, and if i got a puncture i would cross that bridge when it came to it..

[toondoug]

just a thought but how many motorcyclists go on long trips ,holidays etc and they dont carry a spare wheel and they dont

have run flats either

[local hero]

just a thought but how many motorcyclists go on long trips ,holidays etc and they dont carry a spare wheel and they dont

have run flats either

Never thought of that, they reckon we get a flat on avge every 70,000 miles, and i am pleased to say i havent had the problem for 12 yrs in any of my cars, however i drive a cab and that has had 3 in 12 mths, but considering i take people to building sites, farms, works yards etc this doesn't surprise me ..

[Bezzer]

just a thought but how many motorcyclists go on long trips ,holidays etc and they dont carry a spare wheel and they dont

have run flats either

You'll find the majority nowadays have breakdown cover, good percentage of bike insurance companies give it for "free" and other riders buy it anyway, flat tyre is a breakdown and you either get it sorted locally or get taken home. Ultraseal and other similar stuff is used a lot as well as a precaution.

[anchorman]

I see that the OFT are prosecuting BA for unfair price fixing of fuel surcharges with Virgin;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7546804.stm

If I had RFTs I would be talking to them along the same lines. I do not have a problem with the use of RFTs but I do have a problem with them only being available from TGB. Only since we have discussed unfair practice have Bridgestone come forward and proffered alternative sources but so far nobody can tell me that a/ they are available outside the Toyota network or b/ that they are any different in price if they really are available.

In my former life of vehicle development I got involved with a situation where a vehicle manufacturer wanted exclusive rights to sell friction material. When they were pulled up about it being unfair they and the friction supplier said that they had made the parts available via independant suppliers. In fact although they had added the part numbers to the range of available parts, the parts were never actually physically available and the OFT prosecuted the pair for unfair practice. Its alright saying there are authorised suppliers but where are they and if they are no cheaper then the price has to be justified or it will be deemed a cartel.

As it happens it doesn't affect me but if it did, rest assured I would be on to the OFT instead of continuously belly aching about it. Some owners seem quite at ease about the situation - fair enough. However, if you have an issue with it and see it as unfair for goodness sake either put up or shut up. I can see three options;

1. You change the tyres and wheels to those with conventional components. You don't have to do it until you need some new tyres so therefor spread the cost.

2. You can keep subscribing to this ridiculous situation and TGB/Bridgestone will continue to "laugh all the way to the Leeds" at your expense.

3. You can fight the situation and start rattling some cages.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/oft_and_cd/

As they say on blind date, "it's up to you".

[bothwell_buyer]

As i said in a post, 2000 BMWs are off the road waiting for replacement run flats. porsche owners wi rear run flats are waiting so long they hire a car and charge it to porsche - you guys wi run flats on yer RAV should do the same!!

[Bridgestone]

Hi All.

"You can keep subscribing to this ridiculous situation and TGB/Bridgestone will continue to "laugh all the way to the Leeds" at your expense."

Interesting one this as its not Just Bridgestone that make the Support Rings. Continental have them in production and Yokohama are working on there`s. and who says you have to fit Bridgestone to your T180? it is recomended but who could police that one.

I cant see the OFT argument when its a standard rim, standard Tyre, and other support ring brands are out there plus Independant Tyre dealers are being trained to fit and repair. Toyota/Bridgestone were just the first to fit it to a production car.

Like another post said if your Wife was to get a puncture at night, perhaps in the middle of nowhere with no mobile signal on her own or with children in the car would it not be better to drive home at a lower speed?. And if heaven forbid you caught a peice of steel in the road and shredded a Tyre at 70mph would it be better to not have the wheel rim running on the road and avoid possibe loss of control.

Watch this space we are working on getting the prices down and avaibility of fitting locations better.

Kirk

kirk.walker@bridgestone.eu

07989 359143

[Fujisan]

Hi everyone. I wish I'd read all these comments about RFTs before I shelled out the thick end of £27000 buying my new T180 6 weeks ago.

Enjoy your T180 Moonraker! It's a great car, no point in having regrets now......what will be, will be.....so you may as well enjoy a wonderful car!

Hi Moonraker, and welcome. I don't have a Rav4 with RFT but I suspect that, in a couple of year's time, you will still be thrilled with your new purchase. The RFTs may be an issue if you get a puncture. I know that sounds rather odd, and frankly is stating the bl**din' obvious, but the fact of the matter is that motoring isn't a 100% guaranteed way of getting you from A to B - nothing is!

Agreed!

As far as the inconvenience of a puncture is concerned, ok, so maybe it wouldn't affect me with "ordinary" tyres, but the vagaries of life are such that this morning, minding my own business and on the motorway into work, I had to stop in a queue of traffic - the woman behind me stopped (just, I can see the look on her face in my rearview mirror even now, twelve hours on) but the one behind her couldn't stop, and so she bashed into the one behond me who, in a graphic demonstration of Newton's laws, bashed into me. Result - my lovely Rav4 is disappearing for three days next week :o to have the back bumper and TTE skirt (she's a "her") replaced, repainted and her rear end buffed up.

Don't worry overly about the RFTs. And I'm sure you'll enjoy driving what for me (after 41 years of driving - 38 of which I've been legally old enough to drive!) is the best vehicle I have owned.

Happy motoring!

Sorry to hear about the accident. :(

Hope your RAV is fixed good as new very soon!

And the Insurance is sorted quickly as well.

A brand new car, £27k, and within 1 second you could be stranded and for many hours.

John, I am really not having a go here! i do not have an axe to grind as i do not have a T180. but surely the point of the RFs is that you are not stranded, you can continue your journey albeit at a reduced speed, and get home, or to a dealer, if my wife had a puncture late at night i would be happier that she was able to get home than i would be at the thought of her changing a wheel at the side of the road, and lets face it any component of your car can breakdown and leave you stranded, I appreciate the monopoly toyota appear to have on repairing RFs and the absorbitant cost, but it is this we should be complaining about, not the actual run flats, If i had (could afford) a T180 i would just enjoy it for the great car it is, and if i got a puncture i would cross that bridge when it came to it..

I have to agree with Stewart on the basic principle of run-flat tyres (of whatever design).

Doing quite a few motorway miles , I regularly see people stuck on the hard-shoulder with flat tyres. One half of me says "why are they waiting for a recovery service just to change a flat, it's an easy job". Then the other half says "but look at the traffic zooming past them, they are much safer behind the armco"

And especially since I've been driving like Miss Daisy and spending most of my time in the inside "HGV" lane, I am more and more heading to the safe option. The number of HGV's (British and Foreign) I see crossing the white line into the hard shoulder is frightening!

If having RFT's meant that at least I could get off the motorway before waiting for recovery I'd consider it money well spent. Tyres are cheap compared to safety of my family.

Finally Bothy makes a very good point about BMW and Porsche driver waiting for RFT's and I'm sure it is very frustrating for those owners. But, firstly, they are the stiff side wall run-flats not the T180 support ring run-flats and secondly I think I am correct in saying that at the very least, for the last couple of years (since 2003 in the case of the 5 series) nearly every new BMW (and Mini) has been fitted with RFT's. So 2000 as a proportion of all those cars on the road is really rather low.

As for Porsche's, they generally use massive low profile tyres, that even if they were not run-flat, the very nature of there specialised sized means it's doubtful your local Kwik-fit would have them on the shelf anyway. :P

Love them or hate them, RFT's, in one form or any other are here to stay, along with cans of tyre repair gunk. The days of the full sized spare or even the space-saver spare are well and truely numbered. Manufactures see there removal has a good way of reducing wieght, freeing up space in the boot and saving money! And it is something we will have to accept.

[Bridgestone]

Hi everyone. I wish I'd read all these comments about RFTs before I shelled out the thick end of £27000 buying my new T180 6 weeks ago.

Enjoy your T180 Moonraker! It's a great car, no point in having regrets now......what will be, will be.....so you may as well enjoy a wonderful car!

Hi Moonraker, and welcome. I don't have a Rav4 with RFT but I suspect that, in a couple of year's time, you will still be thrilled with your new purchase. The RFTs may be an issue if you get a puncture. I know that sounds rather odd, and frankly is stating the bl**din' obvious, but the fact of the matter is that motoring isn't a 100% guaranteed way of getting you from A to B - nothing is!

Agreed!

As far as the inconvenience of a puncture is concerned, ok, so maybe it wouldn't affect me with "ordinary" tyres, but the vagaries of life are such that this morning, minding my own business and on the motorway into work, I had to stop in a queue of traffic - the woman behind me stopped (just, I can see the look on her face in my rearview mirror even now, twelve hours on) but the one behind her couldn't stop, and so she bashed into the one behond me who, in a graphic demonstration of Newton's laws, bashed into me. Result - my lovely Rav4 is disappearing for three days next week :o to have the back bumper and TTE skirt (she's a "her") replaced, repainted and her rear end buffed up.

Don't worry overly about the RFTs. And I'm sure you'll enjoy driving what for me (after 41 years of driving - 38 of which I've been legally old enough to drive!) is the best vehicle I have owned.

Happy motoring!

Sorry to hear about the accident. :(

Hope your RAV is fixed good as new very soon!

And the Insurance is sorted quickly as well.

A brand new car, £27k, and within 1 second you could be stranded and for many hours.

John, I am really not having a go here! i do not have an axe to grind as i do not have a T180. but surely the point of the RFs is that you are not stranded, you can continue your journey albeit at a reduced speed, and get home, or to a dealer, if my wife had a puncture late at night i would be happier that she was able to get home than i would be at the thought of her changing a wheel at the side of the road, and lets face it any component of your car can breakdown and leave you stranded, I appreciate the monopoly toyota appear to have on repairing RFs and the absorbitant cost, but it is this we should be complaining about, not the actual run flats, If i had (could afford) a T180 i would just enjoy it for the great car it is, and if i got a puncture i would cross that bridge when it came to it..

I have to agree with Stewart on the basic principle of run-flat tyres (of whatever design).

Doing quite a few motorway miles , I regularly see people stuck on the hard-shoulder with flat tyres. One half of me says "why are they waiting for a recovery service just to change a flat, it's an easy job". Then the other half says "but look at the traffic zooming past them, they are much safer behind the armco"

And especially since I've been driving like Miss Daisy and spending most of my time in the inside "HGV" lane, I am more and more heading to the safe option. The number of HGV's (British and Foreign) I see crossing the white line into the hard shoulder is frightening!

If having RFT's meant that at least I could get off the motorway before waiting for recovery I'd consider it money well spent. Tyres are cheap compared to safety of my family.

Finally Bothy makes a very good point about BMW and Porsche driver waiting for RFT's and I'm sure it is very frustrating for those owners. But, firstly, they are the stiff side wall run-flats not the T180 support ring run-flats and secondly I think I am correct in saying that at the very least, for the last couple of years (since 2003 in the case of the 5 series) nearly every new BMW (and Mini) has been fitted with RFT's. So 2000 as a proportion of all those cars on the road is really rather low.

As for Porsche's, they generally use massive low profile tyres, that even if they were not run-flat, the very nature of there specialised sized means it's doubtful your local Kwik-fit would have them on the shelf anyway. :P

Love them or hate them, RFT's, in one form or any other are here to stay, along with cans of tyre repair gunk. The days of the full sized spare or even the space-saver spare are well and truely numbered. Manufactures see there removal has a good way of reducing wieght, freeing up space in the boot and saving money! And it is something we will have to accept.

[bothwell_buyer]

No doubt as other manufacturers get on board, the price will come down - just like in 1994 when T launched the RAV with unique sized Dunlop tyres at £200 a pop. I think they are down to £70, 14 years later! Funnily enough the same happened with the windscreens.

The one I like the best is the landrover spares - a clutch master cylinder for less than a tenner!

[anchorman]

Hi All.

"You can keep subscribing to this ridiculous situation and TGB/Bridgestone will continue to "laugh all the way to the Leeds" at your expense."

Interesting one this as its not Just Bridgestone that make the Support Rings. Continental have them in production and Yokohama are working on there`s. and who says you have to fit Bridgestone to your T180? it is recomended but who could police that one.

I cant see the OFT argument when its a standard rim, standard Tyre, and other support ring brands are out there plus Independant Tyre dealers are being trained to fit and repair. Toyota/Bridgestone were just the first to fit it to a production car.

Like another post said if your Wife was to get a puncture at night, perhaps in the middle of nowhere with no mobile signal on her own or with children in the car would it not be better to drive home at a lower speed?. And if heaven forbid you caught a peice of steel in the road and shredded a Tyre at 70mph would it be better to not have the wheel rim running on the road and avoid possibe loss of control.

Watch this space we are working on getting the prices down and avaibility of fitting locations better.

Kirk

kirk.walker@bridgestone.eu

07989 359143

The fact that an owner can seek out a Yokohama support ring for his Bridgestone RFT is little comfort Kirk. Working on a support ring doesn't mean that it is available and that a T180 owner now has a choice of not going to a Toyota dealer for a replacement today. Things are are long way short of the very normal situation you portray. I don't need convincing of the benefits of RFTs - the concept is fine. The fact is that so far owners can still only realistically go to Toyota and buy one of your tyres at a grossly over inflated profit (no pun intended).

This situation is no different than TGB launching a model and saying that due to the technicalities of the engine you can only buy fuel from a Toyota distributor and even though it only amounts to an additive we are going to charge you double the going rate. It is fair to charge a premium for a genuine part such as a casting that has had some precision machining done and costs of the tooling need to be considered but a tyre is a consumable part and locking customers into the replacement of them is unacceptable.

Or are we to believe that the manufacturing costs for the tyre are at least double? Accepting the volumes are low and the price of oil and steel are included, this tyre design is more dependant on the support ring than some major differences in its construction.

Kirk at least you have had the balls to come forward and speak about this situation and that is commendable when TGB whom we know look in are sitting very quietly in the wings and saying nothing. However, as I indicated above, it is one thing to say these items are readily available but they do actually have to be so in order that this is nothing more than a hollow gesture.

Frankly you can see it how you want but the law will see it as a cartel and if they get their claws into it heads will roll. The perpetrators in the BA case are facing 3 to 5 years so somebody in this low down, sneaky, underhanded, unfair, dispicable collusion needs to be thinking more about how they will explain themselves when the need arises than what their profit and loss account will look like at the end of the period.

Instead of owners emailing you why not publish the list of alternative suppliers who have price and availability on here? It seems that ratting on the other party is a good defense but I'm sure that owners would settle for a price promotion from TGB and authorised Bridgestone distributors while you all decide who said what and worry about what has been put into writing because when an investigation starts it will be thorough.

Regards

[Moonraker]

Hi everyone. I wish I'd read all these comments about RFTs before I shelled out the thick end of £27000 buying my new T180 6 weeks ago. I live in the wilds of Anglesey and if the information I was given a couple of days ago is correct the nearest Toyota dealers who can fix RFTs to me both entail round trips of about 140 miles. I havn,t yet found any local non Toyota places where I could get replacement tyres and am waiting for an email from Bridgestone to that effect. No points to Premier Toyota at Llandudno Jct for not letting me know that they couldnt change the tyres when I bought the car. Its a shame because after 6 weeks and 2000miles Im extremely pleased with the car. The comfort is excellent. Build quality is to Toyotas usual high standard and load space that makes for an extremely versatile vehicle. My trip computer fuel consumption figures exceeds the figures that I have seen on these pages matched by the pumps. I got 51mpg on a 150 mile motorway trip at 55-60 mph with 2 of us on board but to be honest at 70 mph which I suppose is the speed most would travel at the consuption drops to the high 30s. Does anyone know what tyres the new SR180 uses. If the tyres are not the same as the T180 it would say a lot.

Hi Moonraker, and welcome. I don't have a Rav4 with RFT but I suspect that, in a couple of year's time, you will still be thrilled with your new purchase. The RFTs may be an issue if you get a puncture. I know that sounds rather odd, and frankly is stating the bl**din' obvious, but the fact of the matter is that motoring isn't a 100% guaranteed way of getting you from A to B - nothing is!

As far as the inconvenience of a puncture is concerned, ok, so maybe it wouldn't affect me with "ordinary" tyres, but the vagaries of life are such that this morning, minding my own business and on the motorway into work, I had to stop in a queue of traffic - the woman behind me stopped (just, I can see the look on her face in my rearview mirror even now, twelve hours on) but the one behind her couldn't stop, and so she bashed into the one behond me who, in a graphic demonstration of Newton's laws, bashed into me. Result - my lovely Rav4 is disappearing for three days next week :o to have the back bumper and TTE skirt (she's a "her") replaced, repainted and her rear end buffed up.

Don't worry overly about the RFTs. And I'm sure you'll enjoy driving what for me (after 41 years of driving - 38 of which I've been legally old enough to drive!) is the best vehicle I have owned.

Happy motoring!

Thanks to Robert and to the rest of you who have taken the the trouble to reply to my post. I feel like I 've recouped my membertship cost already. Sorry to hear about your accident Robert. I hope your car gets fixed promptly.. I take on board the comments that you have all placed. A few things there that I hadnt thought of. When you see it in writing these things become obvious. I didnt mean to sound like a whinger I really do appreciate that I am fortunate to be able to afford what , apart from the RFT issue is a fantastic vehicle. I genuinely believe that RFTs are the way forward . For example If an ordinary tyre goes pop at motorway speeds the loss of vehicle control could and indeed has caused catastrophic accidents. If RFTs go pop then an element of control is retained in most cases thus saving lives. I feel that as RFT technology improves that we will all benefit. My gripe is the availibility of places to repair these tyres and of course the cost. From a personal view point I am still as delighted with my Rav as I was when I drove it off the forecourt the first time. I think the best thing I can do in my circumstances is to bite the bullet and buy a spare wheel and tyre and leave it in my garage then at least I could possibly drive home and fix the tyre at my leisure . Many Thanks to you all Moonraker aka Bob

[Blingo]

Interesting one this as its not Just Bridgestone that make the Support Rings. Continental have them in production and Yokohama are working on there`s. and who says you have to fit Bridgestone to your T180? it is recomended but who could police that one.

I cant see the OFT argument when its a standard rim, standard Tyre, and other support ring brands are out there plus Independant Tyre dealers are being trained to fit and repair. Toyota/Bridgestone were just the first to fit it to a production car.

Hello folks,

I'm a newbie on here, joined after our 08 T180 got a nail in its tyre while away from home

Price aside, I am livid at the lack of available service for this tyre system. You may be grateful if you are the one person in however many thousand that gets a high speed blowout but you pay dearly in cost and inconvenience the rest of the time.

If the 'loan wheel' scheme had still been operating I think I would have accepted the situation, don't know which Numpty decided to stop it but they were VERY premature.

The tyre isn't special and there seem to be a number of makes available. The (OE) wheel will take a standard tyre.

So all you need to do is junk the metal ring, buy a spare wheel, and you have a standard setup that any tyre joint can service...

...except that the Toyota dealers won't co-operate.

We eventually reached a compromise whereby I paid to have the tyre dismantled and took it elsewhere to be refitted.

Don't forget to note the number of the pressure sensor unit while the wheel is apart, you will need it if you need to get a different wheel coded to the car (and don't 'gunk' them, they cost circa £150 each apparently). Not found out yet whether the control unit will accept 5 codes at the same time or just 4.

I bought a set of very good T180 wheels to get my spare so, if anyone else would like one for a spare, drop me a line.

Almost bought a jack kit too but discovered the car had one, just in time.

Incidentally, as regular member of the BMW forums, I don't believe that there are 2000 3'ers (or anything like it) off the road waiting for tyres. It is true however that they are not routinely available off the shelf and you normally have to wait until next day - not much use in an emergency.

I have junked the BMW runflats too, mainly on the grounds of ride and handling, and carry a spare in those too when outside of the local area.

Whichever system they impose on you, its not really an improvement on the old days is it?

[Hoovie]

Odd that a car with RFTs should be supplied with a jack! how logical is that!

on the matter of these Run Flats, one common complaint seems to be the cost of replacing the BSR at £90 and this appears to be a regular occurance.

If the design spec for the RFTs is you can drive a maximum of 50 miles at a speed of 50MPH (those numbers seem to vary depending on the dealer, but 50 miles/50mph seem to be the most conservative figures), WHY cannot the BSR survive that without needing to be replaced and if it doesn't survive, sounds to me it isn't fit for purpose and Toyota should pay for the replacement.