Run Flat Tyre T180

[Marc D]

Hoovie / chatman / sywy - in response to your comments :

Yep I do still have the Avensis - but it's killing me, there's no power but at least it gets me from A to B (slowly !!!).

With regards the support ring (or should that be the support 'equilaterally curved heptagon' - no I'm not sad I just googled the shape of a 50p) - as the drive home on the Sunday and to the garage on the Monday wasn't too bad I would have to question how badly damaged it was & if the damage was caused by driving or by attempting to remove it - these are questions I've asked the dealer / garage as well as Toyota direct. I've also requested that all the remaining wheels / tyres are tested as I now have doubts over there use as well as safety. SYWY - good point regards the sensor working whe I took it into the garage - I'd missed that one !!!!!

As for paying £450 - not a chance, I'm now reluctant to pay anything at all to be honest.

I've mentioned to Toyota twice today (as still nobody has called me back) I've called them again & stressed if I don't hear anything by 17:30 my next call will be trading standards (thanks for let me knowing about the exisiting case - i'll certainly reference that).

I've also suggested to Toyota that for the inconvenience they should supply me with free and complete replacement wheels / tyres (aiming for 4 but would accept 2 just to keep at home should I have future problems !!!).

Whether this be garage incompetence or defective support ring I'm unsure but I just want my car back !!!!!!! (ideally with all 4 wheels intact).

[Marc D]

Thanks Hoovie - next stop Clare Presland I think !!!!

[bothwell_buyer]

Just goes to underpin what I have said in the last few days about robustness of sensors and the fallacy of a run flat concept.

[Hoovie]

if you have a garage that says they have to CUT OFF a tyre, I think a sensor encased in an aircraft black box wouldn't have been safe from those gorillas!

[Marc D]

Hmm - yeah I wasn't too concerned when they pulled out the still saw or even the chainsaw, but when they pulled in a team of professional lumberjacks (checked shirts and canadian / french accents included) I got a little worried !!!!

Only joking - for legal reasons I have to state that I did not see any lumberjacks (professional or otherwise), neither did I see any stillsaws or chainsaws being used to savage my tyre. Also i'd like to comment for legal reasons that I do not even know if my tyre has been savaged - in fact I have not seen my car for 8 days so who knows !!!!!

Now I'm going to have nightmares about my car - a little like the first time you watch 'Arachnaphobia' - you know that little money spider ain't gonna hurt you before you go to sleep but it doesn't stop the nightmares !!!!!! - anyway I think I've gone a little off track there.

E-mail from Clare Presland at consumer direct - phone call tomorrow to see what we can do next !!!!

Updates to follow (needless to say tomorrow's update will state '9 days without the car' :ffs: !!!!).

Marc

PS - with a bit of luck the emoticons worked - if not apologies !!!!

[Fujisan]

I believe Bridgestone now have special representatives to deal with all their customer's problems.

[Hoovie]

I don't think she has a spare tyre either by the look of her

In the first picture, is that the pressure sensor in the belly-button?

[dave.m]

She can check my tread depth any time

[Parts-King]

No donut's on her then..........She would get a job in our place no problem....Uncle Kingo would look after her, but she better like pies

Kingo

[Hoovie]

If you started feeding her pies, she'd need a bigger support ring then that little silver belt :D

[local hero]

No donut's on her then..........She would get a job in our place no problem....Uncle Kingo would look after her, but she better like pies

Kingo

You could employ her in the flocking department Kingo..

[Marc D]

OK all - latest update.

After a number of e-mails prompted by myself (Toyota GB customer relations still failed to return any of my calls !!!!) I have received 2 letters in response to my concerns.

The first from Toyota GB agreed that the level of service & response was poor and offered many apologies.

Moving onto the grit - they would not agree that the support ring / sensor was faulty - suggesting that if it was it would have been noted from day 1 - my response to this was that I believe the fault became apparent when the system was instigated (ie at the time of the puncture), I then asked the question - could it have been damaged at time of attempted removal !? - the general response I've had to this is 'NO' & the suggestion seems to be that it's all my fault !!!!!

The first letter also stated that after conversations Toyota GB have had with the dealer, the dealer had agreed to reduce my bill by the labour charge (some £50 ish +vat) & that as a 'goodwill' gesture Toyota GB had posted out a voucher to me for £150.00. This funnily enough taking the cost to me down to almost the level of simply replacing the tyre (around £250).

In my experience, as the 'goodwill' voucher has been offered, Toyota GB can continue to claim that they are not at fault (not admitting it's their problem) while trying to appease me.

I responded to the first e-mail letter to state that I still had concerns over the tyre / system, if it had been damaged so bad after only approx 20 miles, most of which were on B roads what would the potential damage be on a motorway !!! as well as concerns over the overall costs & lack of general availability etc.

The second e-mail letter response from Toyota again stated that they were sorry etc - however they could do no more.

I responded to ask the lady who was the case manager as to if this issue had happened to herself, would she be happy with the responses being given - particularly as there is a potential safety issue - as of yet no further response !!!!!

Moving onto my conversations with 'Consumer Direct', I intially e-mailed Clare Presland following the notes from this forum.

Clare immediatly responded & advised me to raise the issue either on the internet site or via phone.

On contacting 'Consumer Direct' verbally I have been told that I need to raise the issue with the dealer that I bought the car from - this is where the sales contract is held.

It would seem that from a legal standopint that Toyota GB have no responsibility for any issues I have with any of their vehicles - instead it's the garage I purchased it from - which have not been involved with this issue at all.

The actual dealer that has had my car for nearly 2 weeks was NOT the dealer I bought the car from - due to Toyota's wonderful 'specialist' run flat system - the dealer I purchased the car from does not have a system local & when I contacted them originally they didn't have the tyre available that day anyway.

Also from speaking with the dealer that currently has my car yesterday, it would seem that Toyota GB have been speaking with them & suggesting that the complaint I have is directly related to the dealer !!! - at no point have I raised complaint against the dealer - it has been with the run flat system, the charging (which Toyota apparently set) and the overall poor service from Toyota GB (not the dealer).

Anyway I called the dealer I bought from & they were extremly sympathetic (I would also like to state at this time that both the dealer I purchased from & the dealer that has been involved this last 2 weeks or so have generally been great in all my dealing with them since I bought the car).

As advised by Consumer Direct I have requested that all the parts that have been removed are handed over to me as well as a detailed report as to what they think could have caused the damage etc - which they are more than happy to provide.

In short, I am hoping to pick my Rav4 up later today along with all the bits & pieces etc & a report.

The dealer I bought from have agreed that they will take this issue up from a warranty / safety perspective - however overall I'm not expecting much from Toyota GB.

Additionally I have also contacted Bridgestone who's wonderful run flat tyre / system this is !!!!!

Overall, while the costs involved seem extortionate, the issue I have is not on the costs side of things it's with the safety & reliability of the system.

I'm guessing that Toyota expect everything to go quiet now I have the £150 voucher. Yes I will use the voucher but I do not accept that their response is satisfactory & will continue my quest for truth & justice !!!!

Further updates to follow !!!!

I'd also like to offer my thanks to those on this forum who have offered support & advise.Also below is an extract from one of the letters regards the feedback & discussions held on internet based forums !!!

'As I hope you will understand, run flat tyres are not unique to Toyota and whilst we are grateful to receive specific feedback from our customers, we look at every issue on a case by case basis and cannot base our decisions on internet forums.'

Many thanks all, Marc.

[chatman]

Marc,

Glad your finally getting your RAV back soon..............

When you get the parts back take photo's off them all and post up on here. All owners and others will be interested to see what's what...especially the Cut Off Tyre....

If you need a hand in doing this...just give us a hollow....

[Blingo]

Toyota Customer Services are very average at best. I had alot of dealings with them over problems with the initial vehicle purchase and also found that they were not good at replying or even being available to take calls. They also behaved then as though they are a third party, acting only as a mediator with the dealer and not taking any responsibility.

I also phoned them when I couldn't find anyone to get my tyre mobile again while I was on holiday and all they could do was identify the nearest dealer that could help (although they weren't actually very near). They also told me that dealers could provide loan wheels, but the dealers (all) told me that they had been withdrawn.

Someone on the BMW forum drew my attention to this. Apologies if it is old news but I don't have time to read ALL the back threads on this.

http://paxsystemclassaction.com/

[Blingo]

I still think the best answer is to have the support rings removed (leaving you with standard wheels and tyres that 'Kwikfit' can work on if necessary) and to get a spare wheel. If you have a genuine wheel as a spareand you want to leave it on then you will have to have it coded.

Without the support rings there is no need for the pressure warning system so it can be removed/disabled (if someone can figure out how...)

[dave.m]

Been watching this thread on Rav4 world, seems the 2009 US spec will have runflats as an OPTION only.

WTF ? see post 220 -

http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?...5&start=210

[anchorman]

You mean the lean burn bit? I've not actually seen that tumble control valve system but the lean burn concept is not new. The chemically correct (stoichiometric) ratio for correct combustion is 14.7:1 - volume of air to fuel by weight. Engines have run at this ratio for years but it is possible to get them to run much leaner (and therefor fuel effecient) if more effort is put into mixing the fuel and air properly and some of the problems with cold emmissions are addressed. Modern engines can stray up to much leaner ratios under the right conditions.

A surprising early example of a a lean burn engine was in the Ford Sierra/Saphire 1.8CVH engine which was capable of running at 18:1 and closer to home the Toyota Carina 1.8 engine was also a lean burner. This article explains the principle quite nicely and how some of today's manufacturers are tackling it;

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/petrol1.htm

Nice to see it pop in a petrol again so I wonder if we will get this new 2.5l VVTi engine. It might address one of the few shortcomings of the petrol engine RAV in that it is slightly over worked.

I would love a trawl through that Toyota info if anyone can find it (outside of the Toyota intranet)

[dave.m]

Hmmm, no I was actually meaning this one, look at the options list -

[anchorman]

Ah yes. I locked onto the interesting bit (for me) and my subconscious must have blocked that nonsense out!!!

I can see me having a case full of RFTs when I get back from Florida next year. This should be good when we see how they react to them!

[chatman]

Ah yes. I locked onto the interesting bit (for me) and my subconscious must have blocked that nonsense out!!!

I can see me having a case full of RFTs when I get back from Florida next year. This should be good when we see how they react to them!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There gonna throw up a stink and Toyota will be handed law suits...can you imagine them waiting 3 weeks for a repair..and paying $500 to fix it :nono: :nono:

[three5]

Ah yes. I locked onto the interesting bit (for me) and my subconscious must have blocked that nonsense out!!!

I can see me having a case full of RFTs when I get back from Florida next year. This should be good when we see how they react to them!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There gonna throw up a stink and Toyota will be handed law suits...can you imagine them waiting 3 weeks for a repair..and paying $500 to fix it :nono: :nono:

Will they definitely be the same sort of run flats that T use here or maybe the stiff sidewall variety? Now if that happened there would be a lot of very upset people here :(

[sywy]

That is an interesting point three5. If they do change the system, then they will be admitting that the BSR system does not work ...

[Hoovie]

If they are the same system, I bet there will be some "support system" put into place for far more efficient servicing of the RFTs then exist here !

[three5]

If they are the same system, I bet there will be some "support system" put into place for far more efficient servicing of the RFTs then exist here !

Hmmmm! a support system for the support system. Could run and run that one. Or run(flat) and run(flat)!

Sorry - I should restrain myself in such an august forum. :!Removed!:

Chris

[Fujisan]

If they are the same system, I bet there will be some "support system" put into place for far more efficient servicing of the RFTs then exist here !

Hmmmm! a support system for the support system. Could run and run that one. Or run(flat) and run(flat)!

Sorry - I should restrain myself in such an august forum. :shutit:

Chris

I wonder if the helpline phone number will be FLAT rate!