3s-fe Engine - Getting More Power Out Of It

[ColinC]

I've checked the old posts here on the 3S-FE engine, and a lot of people have written about how they could get extra power out of this lump by doing various things but I didn't see anyone coming back with definite BHP figures.

I'm looking to get about 170bhp from my Celica if possible, it's 94 SS1. Right now it's 138 I think...

So do any of the 3S-FE heads on here know if it's possible to get much more power out of the engine by mods? Could a turbo make a big difference, and what are the pros and cons of adding one (and the price?).

Really appreciate any tips from 3S-FE owners.

[Jones~32]

Not too sure, but with you having the 'FE' head its going to limit what you can do, and mods that are done probably wont give very good BHP increases, if you want 170BHP i'd consider a GT version of what you have now, or transplant the 3S-GE into your Celica

Alternatively if you want a turbo go for the 3S-GTE :D

[chris202]

Yip Jones is correct - Not much to do to the 3SFE really . I reckon for a grand you could get and install a 3SGE . The 3SGTE is quite expensive and you'd need to upgrade a lot more than just the engine - you'd be as well buying a GT4 i think.

I have a 3SFE , So far half a stainless steel exhaust(downpipe and de-cat) and induction kit (exhaust will be finished on fri) and noticed very little performance gains .

I guess NOS ? would do it but i wouldnt touch the stuff myself.

[martin_longbow]

Not too much with minor mods, panel filter, exhaust about 10 bhp, or just uunder. You can change the cylinder head to the GT or GTE one I think.

There was defo discussion on here about it. Apparently the 3s-fe has the same block as one of the gt engines and the majority of difference is in the cyl head. This will be the closest thing to what your after without changing to fast road cam shafts etc.

The change of head must involve some changes to the ECU system no doubt and that was also mentiond in the thread. Keep searching the threads. I can remember thinking, reading it at the time, if I ever needed to change my head (on my 3s-fe) I would considder upgrading through this way. Let me know if you trawl something back up on the subject, and stupid me will actually save a copy this time.

[martin_longbow]

Right been searchin and the thread was here

Clicky

[ColinC]

Thanks for the replied lads.:)

Yeah, I was going to sell it and get a Jap SS2 or SS3, but the car is in really god nick and I'm a little attached to her. Looks like I will have to sell it though to get that power. Engine mods are expensive though,

and it won't cost me anything to sell it and buy a SS2 or 3.

She's a beauty but she's gotta go :)

Not too much with minor mods, panel filter, exhaust about 10 bhp, or just uunder. You can change the cylinder head to the GT or GTE one I think.

There was defo discussion on here about it. Apparently the 3s-fe has the same block as one of the gt engines and the majority of difference is in the cyl head. This will be the closest thing to what your after without changing to fast road cam shafts etc.

The change of head must involve some changes to the ECU system no doubt and that was also mentiond in the thread. Keep searching the threads. I can remember thinking, reading it at the time, if I ever needed to change my head (on my 3s-fe) I would considder upgrading through this way. Let me know if you trawl something back up on the subject, and stupid me will actually save a copy this time.

[mikeb]

Engine mods are expensive though,

and it won't cost me anything to sell it and buy a SS2 or 3.

She's a beauty but she's gotta go :)

It's the best way really. I don't think a GE head will work properly without changing the pistons as well. Whatever, the cheapest way to more power is to upgrade to a car with a more powerful engine.

[chris202]

Not too much with minor mods, panel filter, exhaust about 10 bhp, or just uunder. You can change the cylinder head to the GT or GTE one I think.

There was defo discussion on here about it. Apparently the 3s-fe has the same block as one of the gt engines and the majority of difference is in the cyl head. This will be the closest thing to what your after without changing to fast road cam shafts etc.

The change of head must involve some changes to the ECU system no doubt and that was also mentiond in the thread. Keep searching the threads. I can remember thinking, reading it at the time, if I ever needed to change my head (on my 3s-fe) I would considder upgrading through this way. Let me know if you trawl something back up on the subject, and stupid me will actually save a copy this time.

SO ...does anyone have any more info. on this ? is it a cert ? if i can get a 3sge head will it propel the car to 3sge performance ? Has it been done ?

Thanks .

[GT4 BOOSTER]

CRIS you can buy a celica 3sge for 1.5k nowadays , will it be worth the cost and hastle - sell your car and move on mate.

[chris202]

CRIS you can buy a celica 3sge for 1.5k nowadays , will it be worth the cost and hastle - sell your car and move on mate.

You raise a very good point but ..... i've just spent a load on a new engine for this one, new brake pads all round , ss exhaust , spoiler blocks and lowering springs(on their way) etc etc and its in excellent condition - i've grown quite attached to the ol'girl :) sooo if for a couple hundred i can get 3sge performance i'd rather do that than buy a new car with maybe more problems....

actually is that beam's ss111 still available

BOOSTER B) can it be done ????

ps .:o your new avator is a bit scary....:D

[GT4 BOOSTER]

the head gasket number is the same for the 7afe also the 3sge and the 3sgte meaning the piston crowns must be the same diameter , depends on the height of the head i suppose , epc dont list the 3sfe i need a uk chassis number to check.

[mikeb]

3s-fe is the same bore and stroke as the 3s-ge. The block is the same, I'm pretty sure the crank and rods are the same. But the 3s-ge pistons are pocketed for the valves. Now, the 3s-fe head has it's valves at 60 degrees, the 3s-ge are at 45 degrees IIRC. Also, the squish area, and CR will be different, so I am totally convinced that the pistons will need to be replaced as well.

And even if you didn't have to swap the pistons - it won't be a couple of hundred quid to swap the c/head over! More like £1000+ (not even including labour). Parts you will need to swap:

complete cylinder head assembly,

cambelt, possibly pulleys and tensioner

Inlet and exhaust manifolds and pipework

Engine wiring harness

ECU

Fuel rail (and probably most of the rest of the fuel system)

ACIS VSV, vac tank, piping

These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. A complete engine transplant would be cheaper and less work than rebuilding your's with a different c/head.

[chris202]

3s-fe is the same bore and stroke as the 3s-ge. The block is the same, I'm pretty sure the crank and rods are the same. But the 3s-ge pistons are pocketed for the valves. Now, the 3s-fe head has it's valves at 60 degrees, the 3s-ge are at 45 degrees IIRC. Also, the squish area, and CR will be different, so I am totally convinced that the pistons will need to be replaced as well.

And even if you didn't have to swap the pistons - it won't be a couple of hundred quid to swap the c/head over! More like £1000+ (not even including labour). Parts you will need to swap:

complete cylinder head assembly,

cambelt, possibly pulleys and tensioner

Inlet and exhaust manifolds and pipework

Engine wiring harness

ECU

Fuel rail (and probably most of the rest of the fuel system)

ACIS VSV, vac tank, piping

These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. A complete engine transplant would be cheaper and less work than rebuilding your's with a different c/head.

Thanks Mike

Just the answer i was looking for - much appreciated .

I can get a 3SGE in for £800 roughly - but i'll leave that .

It was a nice thought though

Good man

[ColinC]

i've just spent a load on a new engine for this one, new brake pads all round , ss exhaust , spoiler blocks and lowering springs(on their way) etc etc and its in excellent condition - i've grown quite attached to the ol'girl smile.gif sooo if for a couple hundred i can get 3sge performance i'd rather do that than buy a new car with maybe more problems....

I know how you feel mate. It's hard to leave a car you know, which you've maintained well and treated nice, to something different that could have some problems waiting to happen.

All the same, you could probably sell your SS1 with all the mods and get really good money for it - I'm thinking well over 3000, esp. if you have low mileage and FSH.

Then you could spend £2000 on a good GT or SS2/SS3, and you'd have made a nice profit, and would also have some extra power into the bargain :)

[Special Red]

Cris - What engine is in yours, avatar says GT but sounds like you have not got the same engine?

Well think you should get that beams. I might enquire about that, dont know why but I prefer that than a GT4, simply because its still quick but rare and there must be some scope for further mods. Anyone had any dealings with Beams model?????

[chris202]

Cris - What engine is in yours, avatar says GT but sounds like you have not got the same engine?

Well think you should get that beams. I might enquire about that, dont know why but I prefer that than a GT4, simply because its still quick but rare and there must be some scope for further mods. Anyone had any dealings with Beams model?????

Its a 2.0GT but its the older 3SFE engine , the first run of gen6's were 3sfe i believe before they relisied it was too slow and introduced the 3sge .

I would love that beams mate but its gonna be pricey i reckon £6000 ! :( well imagine puttin a turbo on that bad boy

i've just spent a load on a new engine for this one, new brake pads all round , ss exhaust , spoiler blocks and lowering springs(on their way) etc etc and its in excellent condition - i've grown quite attached to the ol'girl smile.gif sooo if for a couple hundred i can get 3sge performance i'd rather do that than buy a new car with maybe more problems....

I know how you feel mate. It's hard to leave a car you know, which you've maintained well and treated nice, to something different that could have some problems waiting to happen.

All the same, you could probably sell your SS1 with all the mods and get really good money for it - I'm thinking well over 3000, esp. if you have low mileage and FSH.

Then you could spend £2000 on a good GT or SS2/SS3, and you'd have made a nice profit, and would also have some extra power into the bargain :)

Yeah i could but after all the hassle i had with this car i'm a keep her a while . I'm 25 in about 18months , i'll wait til then i think then look at a supra TT or a GT4 i think . I'll throw a few ££'s at the celica anyway , its a lovely looking car in the best colour so it'll do . I plan on buying another flat this summer , i've been home (parents) now for 8months and its killing me - so i gotta sort a "crib" first i think ! I've driven my mates ss2 and the difference in high revs is quite noticable but how often do i rag it ??? i wanna keep my license so maybe the 3sfe is for the best just now

But you go for it mate !!

:(cant believe i said that....am i going !Removed!....lol......ahhh wen am 25 insurance will be more affordable it'll be worth it !!

[Special Red]

Just wanted to say turning 25 lowered my insurance no more than most years. I was bitterly disappointed!

That Beams is affordable and its exclusivity means I would have one over a GT4, something I could not have ever imagined myself ever saying. I like its 'sleeper' appeal!but Im seriously considering a NSX! just cant decide if its too much of a debt to be tied to for 2-3 years.

Never Knew that about the older GT's, what Bhp is it standard?

[chris202]

#

Just wanted to say turning 25 lowered my insurance no more than most years. I was bitterly disappointed!

That Beams is affordable and its exclusivity means I would have one over a GT4, something I could not have ever imagined myself ever saying. I like its 'sleeper' appeal!but Im seriously considering a NSX! just cant decide if its too much of a debt to be tied to for 2-3 years.

Never Knew that about the older GT's, what Bhp is it standard?

I think its around 140bhp ? 138 ? - i know what you mean about the beams though , i think i would be persuaded to take it over the 4. The NSX is a nice car , awesome performance (seen the nsx type R??) and build quality but the price of them !!! they really are quite expensive mate - I fancy a TT supra , looks better and those lil Twin Turbos would bring a smile to any face

My insurance had better drop ! am a Grand fully comp

[Dan_Q]

Hi guys, interesting thread

Never really thought about a head swap, but cant see why not- except for the time and effort factor of course.

Just a point though, remember that the GTE block is different to any other 3S series- it has built in oil squirters for piston cooling an an oil tapping in the block for the turbo oil feed ;)

Heres another one for you techhie peeps then- could i stick a 5S-FE short motor in mine and have a cheap 2.2 stroker?

[Special Red]

#

Just wanted to say turning 25 lowered my insurance no more than most years. I was bitterly disappointed!

That Beams is affordable and its exclusivity means I would have one over a GT4, something I could not have ever imagined myself ever saying. I like its 'sleeper' appeal!but Im seriously considering a NSX! just cant decide if its too much of a debt to be tied to for 2-3 years.

Never Knew that about the older GT's, what Bhp is it standard?

I think its around 140bhp ? 138 ? - i know what you mean about the beams though , i think i would be persuaded to take it over the 4. The NSX is a nice car , awesome performance (seen the nsx type R??) and build quality but the price of them !!! they really are quite expensive mate - I fancy a TT supra , looks better and those lil Twin Turbos would bring a smile to any face

My insurance had better drop ! am a Grand fully comp

Jesus!!! Im 26 and pay around 380 FC NCP.! Hope it does drop for you!

[Dan_Q]

i'm 26 and I pay twice that!

[mikeb]

Well think you should get that beams. I might enquire about that, dont know why but I prefer that than a GT4, simply because its still quick but rare and there must be some scope for further mods. Anyone had any dealings with Beams model?????

You will need to spend serious money to get any more power from the beams engine - it's already in a high state of tune. One option would be to get the 'black top' beams engine from a Toyota Altezza (imported IS200) and transplnt it/swap heads. It has dual VVTI and give another 5 or so bhp.

Its a 2.0GT but its the older 3SFE engine , the first run of gen6's were 3sfe i believe before they relisied it was too slow and introduced the 3sge .

You sure it's not an import? I've never heard of a UK gen 6 with the 3s-fe (although some MR2's had it, so it's not totally inconceivable).

I would love that beams mate but its gonna be pricey i reckon £6000 ! :( well imagine puttin a turbo on that bad boy

Well, considering the current owner paid £5k for it a month ago, and he's put miles on it since then - you'd be pretty silly to pay £6k for it. ;)

Hi guys, interesting thread

Never really thought about a head swap, but cant see why not- except for the time and effort factor of course.

Heres another one for you techhie peeps then- could i stick a 5S-FE short motor in mine and have a cheap 2.2 stroker?

Did you read the discussion above? Yes, it's technically possible, but that doesn't make it viable.

And yes, with the right mix of components it should be possible to stroke a 3s-ge out to 2.2L. Probably block, crank and rods from a 5s-fe, pistons and head from a 3s-ge. You may have trouble finding a cam belt of a suitable length though...

i'm 26 and I pay twice that!

You must live a 'bad' area or something. I am 26 and paying ~330 fully comp on my ST182.

[Special Red]

Where you from Dan???? and what points have you got or accidents have you been in???

[chris202]

Its a 2.0GT but its the older 3SFE engine , the first run of gen6's were 3sfe i believe before they relisied it was too slow and introduced the 3sge .

You sure it's not an import? I've never heard of a UK gen 6 with the 3s-fe (although some MR2's had it, so it's not totally inconceivable).

It IS an import , i never said it wasn't- but i am right ? arent i ? the first few gen6's were 3sfe before they realised it was tooooo slow

[Special Red]

Its a 2.0GT but its the older 3SFE engine , the first run of gen6's were 3sfe i believe before they relisied it was too slow and introduced the 3sge .

You sure it's not an import? I've never heard of a UK gen 6 with the 3s-fe (although some MR2's had it, so it's not totally inconceivable).

It IS an import , i never said it wasn't- but i am right ? arent i ? the first few gen6's were 3sfe before they realised it was tooooo slow

Thought you had gone crazy then chatting away to yourself!!!