Abs

[zebidi]

After locking up in my new MR2 without abs it was pretty lairy and i got away only with a missing indicator reflector. DAM lucky shave.

now has there been anyone that has done an ABS transplant? how much work is involved and the cost?

[jaxx]

if you had ABS you would have lost the entire bumper ;)

it could possibly be fitted but youll need new hubs and everything i would have thought as they have the speed sensors fitted to them, possibly even the driveshafts that have the toothed sensor rings

then the ecu, actuator, distributor, brake lines... and so on

just get a better brake setup

[Bobby-H]

After locking up in my new MR2 without abs it was pretty lairy and i got away only with a missing indicator reflector. DAM lucky shave.

now has there been anyone that has done an ABS transplant? how much work is involved and the cost?

I would have thought an ABS transplant would be a pretty major piece of work and it would probably be cheaper to sell your car and buy another one with ABS. To be honest I'm not sure its worth the expense of fitting ABS. With good driving technique it is possible to stop the car faster then when just relying on ABS.

[jaxx]

After locking up in my new MR2 without abs it was pretty lairy and i got away only with a missing indicator reflector. DAM lucky shave.

now has there been anyone that has done an ABS transplant? how much work is involved and the cost?

I would have thought an ABS transplant would be a pretty major piece of work and it would probably be cheaper to sell your car and buy another one with ABS. To be honest I'm not sure its work the expense of fitting ABS. With good driving technique it is possible to stop the car faster then when just relying on ABS.

correct

people have posted on here asking why their brakes are making a 'funny noise' under heavy braking....

the fact is nobody really knows how to use it, the fact that your supposed to manouver when under braking

people lock up with no ABS and hit stuff, people with ABS, still stamp on the pedal but the car doesnt slow down as fast (as the wheels are still partially turning) they just end up hitting the same thing but alot faster and harder! As when panic mode sets in people forget to manouver!

i personally favour two stationary solid lumps of rubber ploughing into the tarmac, theres alot more friction!

and just try using ABS on snow and ice, makes your brakes totally useless

[Flat Pack]

people lock up with no ABS and hit stuff, people with ABS, still stamp on the pedal but the car doesnt slow down as fast (as the wheels are still partially turning) they just end up hitting the same thing but alot faster and harder! As when panic mode sets in people forget to manouver!

i personally favour two stationary solid lumps of rubber ploughing into the tarmac, theres alot more friction!

I do hope you're joking and I've just missed it completely. Locked tyre = less friction than a turning one, by some considerable margin. Only way an ABS equipped car will stop in a longer distance than the same car without ABS is if the road surface is perfect, the stop is in a dead straight line and the driver is REALLY good and can hold the car at the point of locking a wheel without ever actually doing it. Average joe that just punts the pedal will stop in a far shorter distance by triggering the ABS than locking wheels. A reasonable road driver that can cadence brake will still be better off in the ABS car, it can unlock the wheels far quicker than they could.

Having said that, its not something I look for in a car. If you're regularly in the position where it makes a blind bit of difference on the road then its your driving style that needs modifying, not your car.

[jaxx]

yes you did i was talking in extremes, you lock up if you panic, i still beg to differ ABS slows you down quicker than an isolated braking system

[Flat Pack]

No, you weren't talking in extremes you were just talking complete garbage.

If you just stamp on the pedal in panic, you'll stop MUCH MUCH quicker with ABS than you would if you just locked the wheels. Completely the opposite of what you said.

[Bibbs]

ABS extends your braking distance, but allows you to steer round the object .. where locking up doesn't.

And it'd be a mission to retrofit ..

No, you weren't talking in extremes

I'd say having the ABS kicking in IS extreme as you can't push the pedal any further ;)

[jaxx]

No, you weren't talking in extremes you were just talking complete garbage.

[Jinxed]

If you're regularly in the position where it makes a blind bit of difference on the road then its your driving style that needs modifying, not your car.

there is something about this that makes some sense tho....

[Stu8]

i'll tell you what's extreme matey.

locking up your big brake conversions wheels round the nurburg, feeling like an artic truck has shunted you from the rear at great speed!

and then starting to feel the effects of feeling weightleness in your body,

to then turn your eyes at the direction of your passenger and see him/her standing upright out of the seat...........

and all without the aid of ABS...........

[Flat Pack]

i'll tell you what's extreme matey.

locking up your big brake conversions wheels round the nurburg, feeling like an artic truck has shunted you from the rear at great speed!

and then starting to feel the effects of feeling weightleness in your body,

to then turn your eyes at the direction of your passenger and see him/her standing upright out of the seat...........

and all without the aid of ABS...........

No that's just scary :censor: :)

Does show exactly what I mean though. You lock up and a whole load of your braking goes away, if you keep your foot planted without ABS it stays away. If you had ABS, it'd release the brakes a fraction and the wheels would start to turn and the braking effect would come back. Then it'd let the wheels lock again... So on until you stop or ease off the pedal. How can that possibly be WORSE than just leaving the wheels locked? It can't and it isn't.

ABS will stop a car quicker than just planting your foot and letting the wheels lock (unless you're on a rally stage in deep gravel or fresh snow). It won't stop the car as fast as is possible, but it'd take a talented driver than can threshold brake well to beat it. I couldn't.

[Stu8]

nah not scary!

more like.......

extremely fun

although obviously I dont fully lock up the wheels!

I put down the required pressure onto the brake pedal, whilst toe'ing and heeling.

like the true proffesional i am (bull :censor: ) :P

[zebidi]

ok guys, whats the best to go out about it other than to get an ABS transplant then? under full braking the brakes locked and i spun up ont a curb over the gravel and onto the grass, dam lucky, DAM DAM lucky.

so whats a good way to make sure i get enough brake pressure to stop but prevent it from locking? techniques? someone point me the right way.

also, the standard suspension feels really dodgy to me. every little bump and one of my asscheeks start spreading away from the other one.

TEIN superstreets asap.

[Stu8]

the easiest i can tell you striaght away, and doesnt require any transplants. lol

if you need to manouver whilst heavy breaking, then just pump your brake pedal quickly

i.e slam on- let off - slam on - let off - etc etc etc

but in all fairness for straight line breaking you can beat the trusty old right foot with the right amount of pressure on the pedal.

(not to lock up the wheels but be damn close to the point where they normaly do)

[Jimlad]

ok guys, whats the best to go out about it other than to get an ABS transplant then? under full braking the brakes locked and i spun up ont a curb over the gravel and onto the grass, dam lucky, DAM DAM lucky.

so whats a good way to make sure i get enough brake pressure to stop but prevent it from locking? techniques? someone point me the right way.

also, the standard suspension feels really dodgy to me. every little bump and one of my asscheeks start spreading away from the other one.

TEIN superstreets asap.

Suspension feels dodgy how?..... If you mean bumpy?... wel I've never been in a mr2 that isn't bumpy. Blame the British roads.. not the suspension! :D

[houston]

rather than spend money on upgrading your brakes why not go to a skid pan session? will teach you LOADS about braking safely and how to use them properly.

and imo abs is useless unless your on a motorway, abs takes LONGER to bring a car to a stop than a car without it, only thing abs does is give you more control under braking to avoid a collision, useless round town where youve nowhere to move to but handy on motorway where theres other lanes.

and i cant see abs being good on a rear engined car as when braking and turning abruptly then momentum will bring the weight at the rear out of line and youll end up sideways easy!

[Flat Pack]

and imo abs is useless unless your on a motorway, abs takes LONGER to bring a car to a stop than a car without it, only thing abs does is give you more control under braking to avoid a collision, useless round town where youve nowhere to move to but handy on motorway where theres other lanes.

Please tell me, how can an average driver (ie one certainly one that can't threshold brake and probably can't cadence brake either) can stop more quickly without ABS than with it? I can understand a highly skilled (probably race) driver being able to threshold brake and beat an ABS system on a good road surface. On an average UK road surface I guess its possible if the driver is good enough. I can see that a competent road driver can cadence brake and do a pretty good job, stopping almost as quickly as an ABS system and retaining almost as much steering ability.

I agree with everything else you say though, skid pan session is a good idea to learn how to brake efficiently (and do lots of other good stuff :) ). A Ride - Drive type session to teach road driving skills so you don't end up in situations where you HAVE to brake as hard as possible isn't a bad idea either.

[zebidi]

thanks everyone, everything said has been taken into account :)

skid pan session was on the agenda before i got it so i will try and make an appointment next week.

another thing was all the yre pressures were different psi and i corrected it now so its a lot better.

[Gareth B]

Zebidi I think the best advice you have had is not to worry about a conversion ( the abs pump itself would cost a lot of money) but to be more aware of braking methods and if possible book a session on a skid pan and get "expert" advice. At the end of the day it comes down to experience and I don't mean how long you have been driving but having been involved in situations, as you have, where you gain the experience.

Post edited due to being incoherent!

Sorry Zebidi working nightshifts :(

Basically don't lock up if you can help it, but there are certain circumstances where it can be the quickest way of reducing speed in an emergency due to the friction of the tyres on the road surface compared with the friction of a brake pad on a brake disc. ABS or cadence braking for that matter is not always the best way to stop a vehicle but is of more use for avoidance.

The highway code gives good advice on breaking. ;)

[zebidi]

blimey you get up early!

thanks for the post, thouroughly read twice!

sorry to hear about the accident and experience definitly gained, dont lock up the brakes!

[Bobby-H]

and imo abs is useless unless your on a motorway, abs takes LONGER to bring a car to a stop than a car without it, only thing abs does is give you more control under braking to avoid a collision, useless round town where youve nowhere to move to but handy on motorway where theres other lanes.

Please tell me, how can an average driver (ie one certainly one that can't threshold brake and probably can't cadence brake either) can stop more quickly without ABS than with it? I can understand a highly skilled (probably race) driver being able to threshold brake and beat an ABS system on a good road surface. On an average UK road surface I guess its possible if the driver is good enough. I can see that a competent road driver can cadence brake and do a pretty good job, stopping almost as quickly as an ABS system and retaining almost as much steering ability.

I agree with everything else you say though, skid pan session is a good idea to learn how to brake efficiently (and do lots of other good stuff :) ). A Ride - Drive type session to teach road driving skills so you don't end up in situations where you HAVE to brake as hard as possible isn't a bad idea either.

Its really not as difficult as you think and with a bit of practise anyone should be able to do it. I've had loads of cars without ABS and I've never had problems with the wheels locking up. The best way to stop quickly is to put the brakes on gradually (dont stab the pedal), as the cars weight moves to the front wheels this provides more friction and so you can brake harder. You can keep pushing the pedal harder until you feel the grip statring to go (usually you can feel this through the steering wheel) and then you canback off a bit. If the wheels lock up, let go of the brakes completely and then get back on the pedal (this is just what ABS does anyway)

The main thing is not to panic and DONT STAB THE PEDAL HARD. The MR2 is quite light at the front and I find this reduces the initial amount of grip on braking.

[Flat Pack]

Easing on (and off) the pedal and cadence braking are good, fairly simple techniques that everyone SHOULD have. I don't think it'll beat easing on the pedal in an ABS equipped car and then just leaving your foot planted, but it'll be close. If the ABS system is very early and primitive I guess it might lose.

Most people don't do that though, they don't care enough about driving to even consider any sort of practice / training beyond the minimum required to pass their test. In a panic situation they stamp on the pedal and then keep their foot down as hard as they can as they're not slowing down quickly enough. If they have ABS, they'll stop far sooner than if they don't.

ABS won't magically break the rules of physics and bring you to a far quicker stop than is possible without it. It will stop most people, most of the time nearer to the best possible distance than they would be able to themselves.

[houston]

without abs you dont put the clutch down atraight away, keep it up and then you have the assistance of the engine to help pull the car to a halt, was taught this when i learnt to drive a car (in a non abs car) and its second nature to me now, i even disable the abs on every car i have now, only time i use it is on the motorway