2003 Camry Alignment Problems?

[Intruder]

Cometstorm,

Good luck! But I'll be very surprised if you get satisfaction. With all the people complaining about the left drift problem, I have yet to hear of anyone who got it fixed by Toyota. If they do fix it, please get as much detail as possible about how they did it.

Looking forward to hearing the results.

[Cometstorm]

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[kipp]

Cometstorm:

I also have a similar drift. In measuring the sipes at 10000 miles, the tires were wearing evenly, though, underinflated [more on edges equally on all tires.] Since, I have increased the pressure to 31 cold [factory 29] all around and rotated the tires, they are still wearing evenly, and equally at the edges.

There is a range of acceptable alignment specs. Regardless choice, are both sides set identically? I noted that you only spoke of the left, though I would suppose that they are the same.

If they are not identical, then, did they put less camber on the left? If they did, then they essentially did the same as putting a 40 pound weight on the font left fender, which would compensate for the driver without passengers.

If the angles are identical, then this is one very sensitive car.

[Cometstorm]

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[Outville]

Cometstorm,

It sounds like they are tweaking the adjustable settings and ignoring caster. I hope they get it to drive well enough to satisfy your needs.

Making minor changes to the camber and rear tow won't have much effect. Keep in mind that most rear wheel drive cars had zero rear tow--straight axle configuration does not allow for adjustment.

After all I've been through with the new Camry, it appears the car is extremely sensitive to things like tire steer, windage, and road crown effect, all to the detriment of driveability.

My local mechanic also advised me that that vast majority of dealership technicians are just that--not alignment experts who know when to second-guess the factory specifications in order to make a car drive straight down the road.

I'm still waiting for the results of arbitration. Should they find in favor of Toyota, I have a few more options to explore.

I plan to find someone to perform tire truing to neutralize any steering from tire conicity. Conicity is the tendency of a tire to roll toward the side with a smaller diameter. I would first reverse the tire mounting as suggested by the factory rep during the arbitration before doing this.

I also plan to purchase an aftermarket caster kit and set the caster to the optimal value specified by Toyota and have the camber optimized by an alignment expert.

If they find in favor of Toyota, they'll purchase the car back and I'll never buy another new one, as they have failed to honor the warranty. I would not buy another Toyota without an extensive test drive.

[hyyz]

I have a 2004 Camry LE. I found it had the same pull-to-left problem. I brought back to a dealership twice. The first time they found it was out of alignment and aligned all 4 wheels. The left pull was slightly improved but was still there. So I brought back for the second time. This time they cross rotate the tires and slightly adjusted the toe(don't ask me the numbers because they didn't provide me the print-out). Now it feels much better. I still can notice a little difference on left and right side if I pay attention to it, but seems like it is good enough. I have a feeling that the problem is not at the alignment. It is something else because I can feel the left side of the car is a little low than the right side. Maybe this is what Toyota said they used "tweaks" to handle road crowns. On a right side crown, the car seems level. On level road or left side crown, the car leans a little to left but just very slightly. I am not a car expert, but I was wondering why the Carmy is so sensitive to the road crowns that Toyoa has to use such bad "tweaks" .

[Outville]

Alignment specs in degrees (original measurements)

Left Font

Min Nominal Max Actual

Camber - 1.47 - 0.72 + 0.03 - 0.8

Caster + 1.90 +2.65 + 3.40 + 1.8

Toe - 0.10 0.00 + 0.10 + 0.02

Right Front

Camber - 1.47 - 0.72 + 0.03 - 0.7

Caster + 1.90 +2.65 + 3.40 + 2.2

Toe - 0.10 0.00 + 0.10 + 0.02

Left Rear

Camber - 2.02 - 1.27 - 0.52 -1.0

Toe + 0.09 + 0.00 + 0.28 + 0.22

Right Rear

Camber - 2.02 - 1.27 - 0.52 -1.1

Toe + 0.09 + 0.00 + 0.28 + 0.21

It appears they are tweaking the camber to disguise an overly-sensitive situation caused by low caster angle. They tried the same thing on mine. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the height of the car.

I noticed something interesting today. When I load the trunk the handling improves dramatically. Lowering the rear of the car would temporarily increase the caster angle. This supports the original diagnosis of low caster angle. Lets talk about how to fix the caster.

I'm still waiting on the NCDS decision on buy-back.

[kipp]

Cometstorm: as you can see. they made the camber more on the right [.3 degrees] which should compensate for the driver's weight somewhat.

Outville: You mention that the car does not sit flat. The camber [adjustable] and caster [unadjustable with mc ferson suspensions without aftermarket ofset] would be altered if one spring was weak front or rear. Have you assessed the spring height on all wheels on the flat surface of alignment lift? A weak spring could be a manufacturing error [putting a v6 spring on a 4 cyl car, solara on a camry] or defect in the alloy.

The caster should be the same and on your car, they are way off. Despite the number, the caster should be the same and if not, then your stearing would pull.

[Cometstorm]

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[Outville]

It was not me who had the lean. My problem appears to be an approximate 3/4 degree deficit in caster trail, which would account for the car being overly sensitive to tire steer, windage, and road crown. My big frustration is Toyota's absolute refusal to address this issue, even after they were the ones to identify caster as the problem. Toyota nor NCDS has made any effort to find a solution or refer the case to a third-party repairer. I went straight to arbitration with no inspection request or repair suggestions on the part of Toyota. I guess if they fix mine, then they would have to fix everyone's.

[irishid]

I'm not sure if I was happy to see the number of postings regarding the Toyota and the problem others are having with drifting to the left. We just purchased a 2004 Toyota Highlander. On the highway the other night we were in the right lane and my husband took his hands off the wheel....in a matter of seconds we had drifted to the far left lane of a 3-lane highway. The service department told us the vehicle was intended to do this! They (Toyota) determine 90% of the drivers drove in the right hand lane and the drifting to the left counters the downward curb in the right lane. Frankly, I think they have a design problem they've been unable to remedy. We've met with the General Manager and next month a service rep is meeting with us. We also have a 1999 Toyota Camry but have never experienced this problem. Would like to know of other Highlander owners who have the same problem.

[Cometstorm]

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[Outville]

Here's a scan of the most recent alignment sheet.

Before the last aliggnment, the camber settings were neutral, but you can see they "tweaked" the camber and have the car chasing its tail worse than before.

[Outville]

One more try

Here's a link to the scan of my most recent alignment sheet.

http://home.columbus.rr.com/JBBA/align.jpg

[Outville]

You have to love technology

http://home.columbus.rr.com/jbba/align.jpg

[Intruder]

Has ANYONE gotten satisfaction from Toyota on the Left drift problem?

Toyota wore me out trying to fight the problem. I can't keep bringing my car in over and over when they never improve anything. Phone calls and letters to the company are a waste of time. So I'll never buy another Toyota. [Lesson learned]

I'm surprised that some enterprising lawyer hasn't decided to drum up a class action suit against Toyota over this. There must be hundreds of customers stuck with this pervasive problem.

I see there are some after-market products that allow Camry/Solara Caster/Camber adjustment. Guess I'll try that next. I wish I had just spent a few $100 to get the car fixed on my own from the start. I have to put a price on all my time, mileage and aggravation expended trying to get warrantee service. Arbitration might get me a prorated refund but then I have to come up with the bread to buy something else. A new car really depreciates in the first year.

The whole thing is so incredible - I still have my old '94 Camry with 150k miles- the alignment has never been touched and it steers and handles better than my new Solara.

[Cometstorm]

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[Outville]

My request for buy-back through NCDS arbitration was rejected.

They say I failed to make my case. I guess I'm stuck fixing this myself as there is no way I could sell a car like this. Never again will I buy a Toyota, as they have dealt in bad faith. The arbitration process has proved worthless as well. So much for the system--it doesn't work to protect the consumer.

[Cometstorm]

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[Intruder]

My :ffs: comments have been added to:

http://www.carreview.com

I was rear-ended a few days ago but just got a few minor scratches on the rear bumper. Insurance is going to replace the bumper cover so I plan to talk to the shop about installing aftermarket Carter/Camber adjusters and adding a realistic caster angle to the car.

It will probably take a bit of research to decide what the correct setting should be (certainly not Toyota specs!).

Kits are available from http://www.k-mac.com.au/makes/toyota.htm

I'll report back on the results but it may be a month or so.

[Dacpa]

I too have a new 2004 Camry SE that drifts to the left. It is not severe but it certainly is not what I would call normal. I took the car back to the dealer and they did a wheel alignment 4 days after I bought it. Perhaps I should have given the car a more extensive test when I "test drove" it before buying.

This past week I brought it back again and the problem still exists. They want the car back one more time and this time they are going to call Toyota to see what needs to be done.

From what I am reading on this board I am not encouraged. It sounds like a design issue that Toyota will not own up to.

If the problem is not resolved I too will file a complaint with the NTSA. Arbitration sounds like a waste of time.

The dealership has handled this well so far and this is not their fault.

I will keep this board posted as to future results re: this issue.

[Outville]

2003 Camry XLE

I have posted a candid review on http://www.carreview.com

Since I did not prevail in arbitration, I will follow up with my complaint to the attorney general. I was never contacted regarding my safety complaint with NHTSA, but they did at least review and initial my complaint posting.

At this time I plan on getting my car evaluated at an independent garage to determine if I can benefit from caster/camber adjustment kits from K-Mac.

I've sent a letter back to Toyota advising them I plan on seeking corrective repairs myself, and that I expect full reimbursement from them when I am satisfied with the car. I will seek reimbursement in small claims court if they refuse.

[Cometstorm]

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[Intruder]

Cometstorm,

The problem has been around longer than that. My Solara is a 2001. For the first year I had it, I had to hold the steering at 2 o'clock to keep it going straight. Eventually, the dealer realigned the steering wheel but couldn't stop it from pulling to the left.

[Outville]

One of the "facts" presented by the Toyota factory rep at the arbitration was that tires are designed to pull left to counteract road crown effects. The way to rule this out is to reverse the tires on the rims on one side to balance this "ply steer" effect. I have done this and there was no net effect, confirming my suspicion that the factory rep was selling a line of bull. I'm still looking at having the alignment evaluated to determine if I can benefit from aftermarket caster ajustment from K-Mac, the same option Intruder is exploring. I still experience a significant pull to the left as well as excessive sensitivity to winds and road pitch. I do notice that the car handles slightly better with two adult passenges in the back seats and a trunkload of heavy items. This would slightly increase the caster angle by lowering the rear of the car.