2003 Camry Alignment Problems?

[Outville]

What's been established in this and other discussion threads is that Toyota will neither acknowledge or fix the steering problem in the late-model Camry/Solara. I see two possible outcomes: NHTSA will eventually order a recall based on the numerous unresolved complaints, or one or more of us will develop a fix and tell everyone else. I only hope that a recall is not triggered by an injury accident due to someone drifting left.

The most promising prospect to date is the K-Mac caster/camber adjustment kit. Hopefully this will give the car a resonable caster angle and make it less sensitive to all the other potential causes of pulling and drifting. As soon as Intruder receives his kit, I'll order mine. I may even buy some basic alignment tools so I can play with the alignment and develop the best settings for the car.

[Jack Bauer, Jr.]

Toyota fixed it on my 04 Solara. If a dealer keeps giving any of you the run around, contact Toyota and complain, then try another dealer.

If any of you are in the DC metro area, give Fitzgerald Toyota a call at 1-888-921-0300, they'll fix it.

[Outville]

Contacting Toyota is not an option. The sleaze bags already prevailed in arbitration. The car still drives badly and Toyota has washed its hands of my problem. You are very lucky. What I need to know is exactly what the repair is because I have to take care of it myself. I will not allow anyone affiliated with Toyota Motor Sales to touch my car from here on out. I plan to sue them for the cost of repairs once I have it fixed.

[Cometstorm]

--

[Outville]

Since Toyota Motor Sales appears to have an integrity issue in dealing with our alignment problems, I suggest we should be looking at some of the unmeasured aspects of the car alignment. I have worked very diligently to eliminate tires, steering gear, and the common alignment aspects such as camber, toe, spring height, as the cause of the pulling. What nobody has addressed is more basic--the strut inclination angle and included ange (difference between camber and strut inclination. The inclination of the strut is largely responsible for the self-centering of the steering after a turn. The strut inclination works together with caster to provide ease of maintaining straight-line travel. Both of these qualities are sorely lacking in the Camrys and Solaras. Every alignment sheet has a space for these measurements, but they are rarely performed unless there is a collision repair. I think it would be prudent to request that strut andle of inclination (SAI) be measured to determine if a defect exists and to what degree. The caster/camber kit from K-Mac Suspensions is capable of addressing strut inclination issues. The reason I suspect that strut inclination may be an issue is that my car pulls left in forward and reverse, and the other aspects of the alignment do not suggest a problem.

[Dacpa]

I too had the alignment problem on my 04 Camry SE. I took the car back to the dealer and they actually fixed the problem.

They removed the struts, compressed the springs, and moved the upper insulator 25MM

counter clockwise.

Im not sure what all that means but when I got the car back it sure felt different. It did go straight and continues to go straight most of the time. Is it perfect? Probably not, but its not a problem anymore, as far as Im concerned.

Meanwhile I have had no problems with the rest of the car. It looks great and runs great.

I hope this helps.

[Outville]

As soon as I can determine exactly what they did to fix it I will look at my own car and see if it means anything. Toyota told me they did a lot of things that are physically impossible, so right now Toyota has a major credibility problem with me.

[Intruder]

If a dealer keeps giving any of you the run around, contact Toyota and complain, then try another dealer.

...been there, done that.

Tried different dealers. Toyota North (Mt Kisco, NY) and Greentree Toyota (Brookfield, CT)

One mechanic said that Toyota had strict rules on how they are supposed to respond to alignment complaints. They are not permitted to check alignment until they went through a whole routine of steps. He didn't say what the steps were but I think we know; Deny. Deny. Deny.

I have called and written several letters to Toyota Customer Service and to company executives. At best, they generate a phone call 6 - 8 weeks later but they will not / cannot correct the problem. In my last conversation, they told me that alignment is only warranteed for 12 months so they won't even look at it again even though the problems have been documented since day 1.

Do we have the makings of a class action law suit?

[tegger]

I have a 2000 Solara SE with a 5-speed manual transmission.

My car pulls like everyone else has been describing. The ironic part is that mine settles down where it has a load in it. For example, 4 people and/or 200+ pounds of rock salt in the trunk.

I went through the arbitration nonsense. The witch that Toyota sent out of Baltimore got real lucky she was a woman. I had to restrain myself from decking her when she told me I expected too much.

My prior car was a 1992 Acrua Integra. I bought the Solara after finding I didn't care for the new Integras and couldn't get the 3.2CL equipped the way I wanted. I informed the arbitrator and the witch from Toyota that I was amazed that a car I piad 12k for out handled a car that I paid 20+k for.....

Idiots.

Now, the new saga involves the oil. The dealer near where I work pulled the engine apart to find why it was (and still is) going through oil. They informed me of a letter I was supposed to have gotten from Toyota about oil gelling in the engine. The dealership sent parts out for cleaning and put it back together. I ran the car from Delaware to Florida. When we left, the oil level was perfect. When we arrived in Florida, I found I was about 3 qts low!

Back to the deal tomorrow.

In the mean time, I'm look at trading this piece of crap. I though of a new Solara, but I have changed my mind. No more Toyotas!

This thing is about as bad as the 88 Escort I had.

[Outville]

I've just been informed by a Toyota tech on another discussion site that roads are crowned to the left and it is normal for the car to follow the road crown. Can you believe that? Last I checked roads are crowned to the edges. All these years that GM techs have been telling customers that cars must be designed to go to the right has just been debunked! I count my lucky stars that I don't work as a Toyota technician. I guess he didn't suspect that I have the TSB here on my desk--the company position is that if camber compensation doesn't fix the left pull, then send the customer to a local tire retailer. Caster was listed as a potential cause, but there is no mention of correcting caster--just adjust the camber then blame the tires!

[X-toyota loyalist]

I've just been informed by a Toyota tech on another discussion site that roads are crowned to the left and it is normal for the car to follow the road crown. Can you believe that? Last I checked roads are crowned to the edges. All these years that GM techs have been telling customers that cars must be designed to go to the right has just been debunked! I count my lucky stars that I don't work as a Toyota technician. I guess he didn't suspect that I have the TSB here on my desk--the company position is that if camber compensation doesn't fix the left pull, then send the customer to a local tire retailer. Caster was listed as a potential cause, but there is no mention of correcting caster--just adjust the camber then blame the tires!

Outville,

What TSB? My car is at the dealer as I type this. The service writer said there is no TSB on Camrys that deal with the car pulling to the left. In fact, he says that there is no problem with Camrys and he has never heard of anyone complaining about one pulling to the left. I thought that was funny since the previous service writer told me that it was one of the dealership's biggest complaints.

[Intruder]

Outville,

Can you post the contents of the TSB? Specifically what models/years does it apply to?

[peakejef]

I have a 2004 Solara Sport and have a big problem with it pulling left. Glad I found this website. I took it in to the dealer today and they were able to fix the problem.

Not sure if this helps, but here is a scan of the relevant info on the work order:

The car drives straight as an arrow now.

Jeff

[Outville]

Intruder, the Technical Service Bulletin that applies is the ST005-01 dated December 21, 2001 for the 2002 model which is mechanically identical to the 2003 model. This is the TSB that Toyota hid behind at the arbitration. It is generic information including instructions on how to eliminate tires as the cause and culminates in the instruction to send the customer to the tire retailer if camber compensations don't solve the problem. How can you blame the tires if you already ruled them out as the cause of the pulling/wandering? The TSB is 10 pages long and deals with cross-rotation of tires and correcting for pull with camber.

[Outville]

Great, they're fixing the 2004 Solaras--suppose they'll ever fix the '02 and '03 with similar problems? I bet they won't offer a thing until NHTSA orders a recall. I've already heard from someone on another discussion group that was told the recent TSB only applies to the '04 Solara. Toyota boogered something up in the top strut mount that makes them pull left. I have to call my District Customer Service Manager back tomorrow, but I know he's only responding to my most recent complaint to Corporate Customer Service--I doubt he's calling about my letter about the sham arbitration. I'll ask him about the "04 Solara TSB before the conversation turns ugly.

[Intruder]

There is a TSB for the problem on 2002 Solaras. Nothing for 2001 or 2003.

Link to AllData 2002 Solara TSB Index

ST005R-01 DEC 01 Steering - Vehicle Pulls To One Side, Manual Supplement

However, the Quality Customer Service driven staff at Toyota will not apply a 2002 TSB to any other year. Toyota probably won't reimburse them for the warrantee labor.

I should get a call from Toyota in a few weeks as a result of my last letter to them. I plan to ask them to respond to all the dialog in this forum. They won't - but I want to rub their nose in this mess. Others should do the same. At some point they will have to stop saying "no one else is reporting the problem".

[Outville]

I just got a call from my District Customer Service Manager in Cincinnati, and they're offering to give it another try. They will arrange for a couple of their corporate technical people to meet me at a local dealership and provide me with a rental car while they work on it. I'll keep everyone posted. I'll be curious to know if they have any new angles, or if they just want to adjust this and that to try and placate me. I won't be satisfied until it drives like any other car. I guess my letter-writing campaign made them think again about leaving my complaint unresolved without at least trying everything in the TSB.

[X-toyota loyalist]

What dealership, I'm curious because I live 5 miles from Cincinnati and have my car serviced at a Cincinnati Toyota dealership.

[Outville]

What dealership, I'm curious because I live 5 miles from Cincinnati and have my car serviced at a Cincinnati Toyota dealership.

They will service the car at either Germain Toyota of Columbus or Coughlin Toyota in Newark. The technicians will come from the Cincinnati regional office. We will agree on the location based on convenience and necessary equipment and available service bays. I live halfway between the two dealerships and work very close to the Newark, OH location.

[Outville]

I just got a call back from the district customer service manager out of the Cincinnati office (Saturday noon, no less) We made arrangements for a factory technician who will meet me at my local dealership and attempt to resolve the problem. They plan to rotate the top spring pads as they have learned to do with the '04 Solara. I was told that this was an assembly issue that was was revealed once the '04 model came out with even lower profile tires. The '04 Solara SE Sport now has 17" wheels and an even stiffer set of springs which has made this spring insulator issue even more critical. This would explain why we see so many more complaints with the SE Sport and XLE models with 16" wheels than with the LE that has 15" wheels and softer springs. This is a repair that can be attempted at a nominal cost even if you warranty has expired. It would require removal of the struts, compression of the springs, and reassembly with the upper insulator rotated 25mm CCW (according to what I'm told) and reinstallation of the struts and realignment of the front wheels. Performance can likely be improved with aftermarket caster/camber adjustments--and this fix can also be done when such kits are installed for a fine-tuning. I will try to get my hands on the TSB or at least the number of the TSB describing this correction.

[Outville]

I finally received a reply from K-Mac regarding the kit listed as caster/camber kit. The kit apparently consists of a cam bolt kit to adjust camber. It is not a caster kit as advertised. You have to read the key to determine this.

Here is the reply:

> John,

>

> # 120316 F Camber kit fits at the strut/axle connection point.

>

> It provides up to 1.75 degrees of either positive or negative Camber, which

> is twice that of most other brands.

>

> Fits all model Camry including 2004.

>

> Rear Camber adjuster is # 120216 F.

>

> Price is $US110 pair.

>

> Air post $US18 or $US27 for F/R kits.

> --

> We can despatch your order within 24 hours - Payment may be made by Visa or

> Mastercard

>

> Best Regards

> Kevin

>

> K-MAC Suspension Pty Ltd

> 366 Princes Highway, Rockdale NSW 2216, Australia

> Phone: 61 2 9556 1799 Fax : 61 2 9556 1507

>

> Email: sales@k-mac.com.au Web: www.k-mac.com.au

[Intruder]

That's very interesting, Outville. I ordered the adjusters online about 3 weeks ago but I mostly wanted them to add caster. However, I never heard from K-Mac and they never charged my credit card. I'll have to send them an email cancelling the order.

BTW, I am scheduled to meet with a District Rep Feb. 11 on my left pull problem. I plan to bring a copy of this & the 2004 Solara forums with me so we don't have to waste time discussing the crown in the road, the tires, my imagination, etc.. Hopefully, we can just discuss what they can do to fix it.

Please report the results of your meeting and try to get a copy of that TSB. I'l do the same.

[Intruder]

DAMN! :ffs: I spoke too soon. I just checked my credit card online again and a K-Mac charge for $138 just showed up.

[PIGMSTR]

The TSB that can't be found has not been published yet. But a Field Technical Specialist instructed us on the content. You need to remove the both front struts, than remove strut mount and rotate the plate on top of the spring 25mm counter-clockwise. Reassemble and set alignment to specs and should drive straight. This is suppose to fix Solaras, Camrys and Avalons. This repair fixed a Solora and we will try it on a Avalon on Friday.

[Outville]

It was an interesting day. I got a call at 11:15 this morning from the Toyota tech assigned to my case, asking if I would be able to make my appointment. I said yes but my appointment is for a week from today. He then told me he was almost to the shop where the District Service Manager had proposed the meeting. I told him to keep driving and I would take an early lunch. We took a test drive in the winter storm conditions but that didn't show much. I discussed my recent observations with the tech we traded cars and he left for the selling dealership. The tech assured me he would have plenty of opportunity to observe the handling in the 30 mile drive back to the dealership. Five hours later I got a call from the service advisor at Germain telling me the car was ready. I was told they did several things: First they set up and measured the car for structural trueness, disassembled the struts and rotated the top spring mount insulators 25mm counter clockwise; then performed an alignment with the tech seated in the drivers seat. So far the car drives nicely. I did some highway driving, and the winds are 20-30 mph. I'm not getting the wind steer or the pulling. So far it seems to drive just fine. I'll know more tomorrow as I have a flat concrete section of highway that gives me fits every day driving to and from work. So far, so good.