2003 Camry Alignment Problems?

[Cometstorm]

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[04Solara]

Hey Y'all,

FNG here. Misery loves company, and my 04 Solara has the same problems. My service tech called me today and said he just received the fix over the phone from Toyota in CA (home of national sales, parts and service center). Expects a TSB "soon" based upon what he was told by corporate today.

He hasn't done this to any Solaras yet, but said Toyota advised him to rotate both top strut plates "20 degrees" (maybe he meant 25mm) counter clockwise. He wasn't sure if it involves drilling holes in the new plates. Does anyone know?

I'm waiting for the dealer to do some other cars first as a learning experience. Don't want my baby to be the guinea pig! :P

BTW, ditching the :censor: Bridgestone Turanzas for any other tire is the biggest single performance improvement anyone could possibly make to these cars... IMHO. I have a case number with Bridgestone - trying to get them to give me a credit for the trash tires on my car towards "better" (upgraded) tires.

[Outville]

I am writing to confirm that my 03 Camry XLE drives just fine now. There is still plenty of road feel through the steering, but no leftward bias. If the road is straight and the winds light, it can maintain its lane for upwards of 1/4 mile hands-off, like any other well-aligned car. In the five months I have fought this battle, I had almost forgotten that driving could be a pleasure.

I had planned to call the factory tech and report back on the results, as he seemed genuinely interested in making the car right, but before I could call, he was calling me. I was pleased with the follow-up, and I resisted the temptation to ask what took them so long to come clean. In conversation, he did tell me that the fix was developed about 4 weeks ago after the problem became readily apparent in the SE Sport package.

I was told by the Toyota tech that the fix is made by rotating the insulator (for lack of a better term) 25mm coounter clockwise. I don't think any drilling is involved, as every spring insulator is held in place by the tension of the coil spring. It was discovered that in some cars, this insulator, which is thicker on one side, puts drag on the upper strut bearing and causes a leftward steer due to the twist of the spring. By rotating this insulator, the effect disappears and the car can be aligned normally to address any loading issues that may affect handling. I was also told that the size of the driver also can make the problem worse. I am 6' 195lb, as is the technician, so he had the final alignment set with him in the drivers seat, for the most accurate alignment possible.

I'm resisting the temptation to send an "I told you so" letter to the arbitrator. I already sent them a letter blasting them for being ineffective.

[ether100]

Congratulations Outville!

I have a 2002 Camry LE that pulls right with the alignment in spec. Could this be a similar problem?

Anybody else out there with a car that pulls right?

[X-toyota loyalist]

Outville,

Any chance that I could get the name of that factory tech? I remember you saying that they were based in Cincinnati. Chances are he would be the same factory tech assigned to my dealership here in Cincy. The reason that I ask is that my dealership is still telling me there is no fix for the Camry because there is no problem with it.

If I've understood correctly, there is supposed to be a TSB issued for the CAMRY. Hopefully they will cover all of the affected years including 2004 which is what I have.

Thanks for your persistance in your fight with Toyota.

[Outville]

The tech who fixed my car is Duane Bristoe. He was assigned by the District Customer Service Manager, Dirk Hammersmith. The particular fix was developed in response to the problem with the 2004 Solara and SE Sport. It was applied to my 2003 Camry XLE, and it worked nicely. You probably would be served well to request a referral to the District Customer Service Manager, or go through another dealership if your dealer won't honor your request. I got my response by writing to corporate customer service by email through the Toyota.com website. You may want to go this route.

[Outville]

Congratulations Outville!

I have a 2002 Camry LE that pulls right with the alignment in spec. Could this be a similar problem?

Anybody else out there with a car that pulls right?

Ether, since the vast majority of the pulling complaints are to the left, I suspect the issue with the spring insulator has something to do with the twist of the spring coil, and the slight torsional force created when you hit bumps and general road roughness being transmitted to the upper strut bearing. Your right pull could be a tire or alignment issue. You should probably eliminate all other potential causes before looking at the spring insulator issue. This is probably good practice in any case. I still wouldn't rule out the strut insulator issue, but I'd be more suspicious of the tires unless they have been eliminated at the cause. I had a tire pull issue on my 91 Camry back when it was nearly new. The pull switched sides when I cross switched the tires. The offending tire wore at twice the rate of the other tires. The problem reappeared several times until I scrapped the original Dunlop tires for Mastercraft tires.

The only post I remember with a right pull was from Australia.

[ether100]

Thanks for the reply Outville.

The tires have been swapped and the pull doesn't swap. And the alignment is within spec -- maximum cross camber is 0.2 in front and 0.3 in back. Cross caster is even less. Toe and SAI are also ok.

So isn't possible that the spring insulator problem, could, in some cases be mirrored to the right side?

The pull is strong enough to change lanes by itself in 4 seconds at 70 mph. And I've tried it on all sorts of roads. The only place it doesn't pull is when the road itself is significantly banked to the left.

[hyyz]

Outville,

How did you find the Toyota Customer Service email address from their website. I couldn't. I would like to contact them and request them to do the fix for my 04 Camry. Thanks.

[Outville]

Outville,

How did you find the Toyota Customer Service email address from their website. I couldn't. I would like to contact them and request them to do the fix for my 04 Camry. Thanks.

It's pretty well buried in the site, but I'm persistent. You visit

Toyota.com, select Search/Help and go to frequently asked questions. #4 is a list of contact addresses and phone numbers including an email link, which will allow you to email them through the website. The Customer Service Manager told me that he was responding to the letter I sent to corporate customer service.

[Outville]

Ether100, anything is possible. Until I heard of the fix, I would not have believed that a spring insulator could have caused such a persistent pull--nor did the majority of people in the business.

Now that I have seen it with my own eyes, I would put it high on the list of potential causes. If an out-of-position spring insulator can cause a left pull that can be corrected by rotating the insulators 25mm CCW, then it makes perfect sense that a right pull would be remedied by rotating them clockwise.

Troubleshooting principles always dictate trying the easiest and cheapest remedies first. You would never replace a fuel pump without first checking to see if the car was out of gas--same goes for disassembling the suspension without first checking tires and alignment.

[hyyz]

Thanks, Outville. I sent an email to them. I'll see if they respond and how. If this is really an assembly issue, they should definitly provide a fix to all owners. My confident on Toyota reputation has been shaken. My next car won't be Toyota.

[chargerman]

I got my Solara back from the shop today. Drives straight!

Toyota has just released a TSB on the steering issue! It came out on Feb. 4th, on day before I took the car in. They reset the front struts and realigned the car. No problems.

To all of you with these issues there seems to be a resolve at last. This TSB covers Camry, Solara, and Avalon's. It does really exist, I saw it! They also have ordered a part for the low tire warning system, it is the ambient air sensor.

I will keep you posted when it get installed.

Good Luck to All! Carl

[Outville]

Chargerman,

Excellent news! This is as much as good of news as we could have hoped for. The TSB will make the fight much easier for those who have not had their cars fixed already.

[Intruder]

Does anybody know what model years the TSB applies to?

[X-toyota loyalist]

The toyota TSB issued on FEB 4th covers 03' and 04' Camry's, Solaras, and Avalons for sure.

I've got an appointment scheduled for next Monday to have the fix applied to my car. I'll keep you all posted on how it works. It certainly sounds promising. What a relief. Now if I could figure out why I'm only getting 21 mpg combined HWY/CTY with my 4cyl, my car will be perfect.

[TCG]

Figures it wouldn't include my 2000 Camry LE.

[Outville]

Good luck, X-Loyalist! I have no idea what the mileage issue is. My combined average this week is around 29, but that is with a lot of moderate driving. For a few weeks in cold weather mine averaged 27. I generally don't have much opportunity to drive over 65 or 70, though I have tried it out for short sprints of 90 to 110 just to see how it performs. I'm sure that Toyota will tell you that your mileage is within factory specifications.

[hyyz]

I just got my car back from the dealership. They did the fix per TSB but the car pulls to right now. I will bring back again. MY car is 04 Camry LE (15'' wheels). Maybe the adjustment in TSB is too much for LE? I'll see. Can I ask this to those of you who actually get your problem fixed: Does your car have 16" or 15" wheels?

The technician also found one of the tires also caused car to pull. They switched it with the spare tire and ordered another one. This seems to explain why in one of the previous fixs they made the left pull less apparent (they cross rotated tires in that fix).

[aldine47]

thanks to all who contributed to this excellent thread

i just bought my 04 camry SE last week and was disheartened by 'the pull' but alas help is on the way

by the way, the tsb # is ST002-04. I just got off the phone with toyota customer service (1.800.331.4331).

good luck to all!

[Intruder]

Here is a page from the TSB:

[ether100]

Intruder,

Does this TSB include 2002 Camry as well?

Also is it specific to "left pulls" or just pull in general?

Could you post all the pages somewhere?

Thanks.

[Intruder]

Bad news, Ether,

A Toyota Regional Tech Rep took a look at the Left Pull problem on my 2001 Solara yesterday and shared only the above page with me. The rest of the TSB must be super secret, need-to-know, restricted, highly confidential stuff not suitable for distribution to the unwashed masses!

My car has pulled to the left since the day I drove it off the dealer's lot. It has only 21k miles on it because I avoid driving it except for short trips around town. In fact, I Hate driving the car due to the Left Pull problem. This is the 9th time it was returned for a fix and the 9th time I was disappointed. An independent alignment shop couldn't fix it either.

The TSB discussed in this forum applies to only 2003-04 models. Earlier models have the have the same Left Pull problem but the top strut plate is different so they can't apply the same fix. So how does Toyota respond? They just deny that there is a problem with earlier models.

It is incredible that Toyota could ship so many cars with such an obvious defect and then pretend that nothing is wrong. These guys are still blaming the crown in the road, tire pressure, phase of the moon, you name it. It is clear to the most casual observer that this is a pervasive problem affecting many late model Camrys and Solaras.

My daughter's Jeep Wrangler with fat snow tires all around has better straight line stability that my Solara!

So... Three years of phone calls, dealer visits and letters and all I have to show for it is a car that I hate to drive. This in not a reputable company. I plan to repeat this story to as many people as I can. I'm sure that I can redirect at least a few potential Toyota buyers every year.

BTW, I learned today that manufacturers are required to report all written complaints to the NHTSA under the TREAD Act, a result of the Explorer/Firestone fiasco. Even though Toyota does not respond to written complaints, they still have to file reports so keep sending those letters! Phone calls to Customer Service won't do it. You have to write.

[Vampire]

My name is Paul and I am a member of 3 Toyota Camry/Solara forums and I just registered. I'm sorry if I bypasssed an intro forum but your problem is familiar to me also. I just wanted to help out and say that Toyota limiting the TSB to the years they state is silly. The suspension part in question (upper strut mount plate) is the same for 99-03 Solaras. I can't understand why they would just limit the fix to 03 and 04 years. If it affects the 03 then it will affect the 99-02 models. In fact it is silly to only state those 2 years only since the 04 represents a model change and hence have different chassis designations. Sounds like they are only addressing what they have to. I don't know if this info helps but a OEM part number check should prove this is the case. BTW, I was suspicious of a suspension problem when my steering wheel felt like it wanted to center to the left. Good Luck to all of you and I feel your pain.

Paul

[Outville]

When the Toyota rep called to offer the fix, I was hours away from tearing it down and fixing it myself. All I lacked was the spring compressors to make it easy. I've done many strut jobs by wiring the spring coils in the compressed position, but I wanted to use spring compressors to do it more precisely in this case. This is something that any mechanical shop can do. I would consider just how important it is to make Toyota own the problem and fix it versus making the car enjoyable to drive. I have a new '03 and I was ready with air wrench and jacks as soon as I knew the details of the fix. I was ready to bear the expense and take my chances with getting reimbursed just so I could have the car I paid for. The '02 is definitely the same chassis as the '03 and '04, and I suspect that the post by Vampire is correct in that the parts are the same on back to '99. My suggestion is to fix the car if Toyota won't.