2003 Camry Alignment Problems?

[Intruder]

The Toyota rep gave me copies of the strut assembly illustrations for a 2001 and a 2004. The designs are identical but the upper spring seat is slightly different (or, so he says - They always give you a straight story, right?

According to him, the earlier version can't be turned due to the notches in the plate. So they all have the same design flaw (my opinion) but only the later models can be fixed this way.

Of course, he still maintained that there really wasn't a problem with the earlier models. It's tire pressure, my imagination, road crown, blab blab blab.... Same old B.S.

Does anyone have REAL information on the Upper Spring Seat? Can it be rotated 2000 - 2002 models?

[Vampire]

The Toyota rep gave me copies of the strut assembly illustrations for a 2001 and a 2004. The designs are identical but the upper spring seat is slightly different (or, so he says - They always give you a straight story, right?

According to him, the earlier version can't be turned due to the notches in the plate. So they all have the same design flaw (my opinion) but only the later models can be fixed this way.

Of course, he still maintained that there really wasn't a problem with the earlier models. It's tire pressure, my imagination, road crown, blab blab blab.... Same old B.S.

Does anyone have REAL information on the Upper Spring Seat? Can it be rotated 2000 - 2002 models?

I have no idea what "notches" he's talking about. The upper spring plate has protrusions or tabs on the edges but those do not hinder the ability to rotate the plate. I would love to tell him to prove it by going to his parts computer and showing me the different part numbers. As a side note, it is those tabs that have caused noise problems for some people because the upper part of the spring was hitting those tabs during normal movement for some folks cars. They ended up coming out with a revised isolator on the early year Camrys and Solaras that prevented that but that's another story. I wish I had the part to shoot with my digital camera so I could email it to you people but I would have to take the strut apart.

[Roger Blake]

I just joined the forum. I have a 2001 Camry LE. I purchased it new. It always has drifted left. I complained and had it in to Toyota many times while it was under warranty. They finally told me to take it to Firestone since the tire maker was Bridgestone. They, Firestone, admitted to problems with the tires but the warranty at that point meant I was not going to get a good deal from them. So I bought new tires, Donlaps, from an other source. The car still drifts. New tires did not solve the problem. Toyota and Firestone say the alignment is with in spec.

This is my second Camry and third Toyota. It is also my last Toyota. I have had a few problems in the past, not with this one other than its pulling left, and they would not make good on them. I also do not like the emergency handling response of this car.

[Outville]

I was told by a very reliable source that being "in spec" is meaningless in the context of diagnosing a handling problem. It was explained by the Toyota factory rep who fixed my car that the factory specifications are a wide range of settings that can be worked within to allow for variations in environment, loading, and driving habits to fine-tune the alignment. In my opinion, being "in spec" is a code phrase for, "I don't want to work on your car." Remember that the earlier TSB instructs the technician to blame the tires if small camber adjustments and tire rotations don't correct a pull to one side.

[Roger Blake]

Thanks Outsville. It is sad that Toyota won't stand behind their product better. They do build tough cars but so don't others. For right now my car has about 56,000 miles and I can't really take the loss of selling or trading until I get 150,000 to 200,000 out of it. I downloaded this topic. I will try to get the problem corrected but it is unlikely by Toyota. I had gone through headquarters with them way back. They offered me 500 off if I traded it in. They said the dealers were independent and they could not force them to fix it. I laughed...Sucks doesn't it when you buy a new car and you end up disliking it from the get go.

[Intruder]

Roger,

Even though you are out of warrantee, you should maintain an open record with them as long as you reported the problem while it was still under warrantee. Every time they look at your car, they close out the record with a resolution like: checked alignment or corrected tire pressure even though they didn't fix anything.

You can be sure that people at Toyota are measured on how many outstanding issues exist and those outstanding issues are catagorized by type. Don't let them close out your problem. Call Customer Support and report that your car still veers into the lane of opposing traffic and has done so since you bought it. Then write to them (very important!) with the same information and cc: NHTSA.

If they agree to look at the car and can't fix it, do everything all over again. Don't let them off the hook.

Let me know if you need addresses & phone numbers.

[X-toyota loyalist]

I had hoped to not have to post to this forum again but here I am. I had the TSB performed on my 04 Camry this past Monday. The car is still very sensitive to road crown and still gets blown around like I'm following a semi all the time. I can't drive the car in the inside lane of any highway because it feels like I'm being pushed into the emergency lane but if I'm in the slow lane the car is as straight as it can be. I think it is time that I get a factory tech involved. I've had atleast 7 new cars in my life and I've never noticed this out of any of them. Oh well, back to the old drawing board.

[aldine47]

Back to the drawing board for me as well. They did the TSB insrtuctions, the car (04 Camry SE) still wants to go left. I have to exert slight rightward pressure on the wheel to keep it straight. While its not uncontrollable it is annoying. In addition, when a strong wind blows or i pass a tractor trailer the thing feels like it wants to fly away. Hmmm...

I will call the dealership again today.

[Outville]

Everybody loses, including Toyota, when they don't effectively deal with issues like this. I've been pleased with the handling of my Camry since they fixed the steering, but I still have concerns for the rest of you still driving squirrelly cars. I encourage everyone who has not received satisfaction to keep after the company. By all means submit your complaints directly to corporate customer service in writing, and file your complaints with NHTSA when the problem is not resolved. Toyota does respond to written customer service complaints, and they DO review the NHTSA complaints. I know this firsthand. The newest TSB has resulted in many cars being made right, but there will be a number of them with other issues. Also consider that some technicians may be less than competent. Involve the factory rep of the local dealership can't fix it. The best technicians have the factory jobs. I was really impressed with the tech they sent to resolve my problem.

[Intruder]

Outville,

I appreciate your comments but a factory techncal rep was the last one to look at my car and said that the TSB doesn't apply to 2001s :ffs: . He said the problem was just tire pressure; not that there is a problem but if there was a problem, it would be tire pressure. "But", said I, "Toyota has realingned the car several times, they never checked tire pressure first? Nothing they have done has ever helped the situation"

Then he suggested that the alignment shop I took it to screweed it up until I pointed out that Toyota realigned it last and they said alignment was perfect.

Then he said something really ridiculous: It was possibly caused by an oversized bushing on the aftermarket rear sway bar. I pointed out that the sway bar and the bushings are TRD (Toyota) made specifically for the car and my record of complaints predates the installation of the sway bar.

They may have some talented Tech Reps but around here their talent is limited to B.S.ing customers.

But I am not giving up. Immediately after the last experience I called Customer Service to report that the problem is still outstanding and I wrote to them also (4th or 5th time) and cc'd the NHTSA.

[nothernic]

I was considering getting a new Toyota but now I'm not so sure. Does the '04 have this problem too?

[Intruder]

I was considering getting a new Toyota...

Northernic:

SAVE YOURSELF!

:o ;) :P <_< :( :o :arrgg-matey: :!Removed!: :o <_< :(

Don't do it!

You have been warned.

[Outville]

I was told by a very reliable source that the problem became readily apparent in the '04 model and this led to a fix being worked out. The particular issue regarding the upper spring isolator causing a leftward pull is a problem in 2002 through 2004 Camrys, Solaras, and Avalons. I would recommend having a new Toyota checked by an independent mechanic before purchase.

[Intruder]

Outville,

I have a 2001 Solara - only 21k miles. Toyota refused to apply the TSB to my car even though it has the identical design and the identical problem and I have been complaining about the Left Pull from day one.

Does anyone have a copy of the TSB?

If I could just get my hands on it I would have it done by an alignment shop but Toyota won't even cooperate with that. I tried the Customer Support Center and the dealer. These guys are incredible! :ffs:

In light of the fact that a Left Pull draws the car into oncoming traffic - their behavior over the past 3 years is nothing short of criminal.

Oh - What a Feeling - TOYOTA!

[ether100]

Found it. The TSB is available in the Files section of the Yahoo Group Toyotas_Only

Good luck!

[Intruder]

THANKS, ETHER100 ! ! !

This is great! Now I just need to verify that the upper spring plate is identical between model years and have a competent (that eliminates Toyota) alignment shop do the fix. If the plates are different, I can probably buy the redesigned version.

I see that the Left Pull TSB applies to only 2004 models but board members with 2003s have been fixed under warrantee by dealers. In this part of the country, they won't touch a car that doesn't fall under the strict confines of the TSB. Anyone else can go suck an egg.

This will cost me several hundred dollars to fix Toyota's new car quality problem but I don't see any alternative other than hiring a lawyer and suing. That could end up costing even more with an uncertain outcome.

I will be out of the country for a few weeks but I'll report results once I get around to following up on this.

THANKS again, Ether100!

[Outville]

I now keep a copy of the TSB ST002-04 from the Yahoo Group Toyotas_Only. It is in Adobe PDF format. If anyone has difficulty joining Yahoo, I can email it as an attachment if needed. My 2003 XLE is doing fine after the fix.

[hyyz]

I just read the TSB for this pulling issue. However, I have two concerns. First, The amount of rotation should be different for 15" wheel and 16" inch wheel. I would think the amount (25mm) on TSB is for 16" wheel because the left pull is more apparent on 16" wheel Camry/Solara/Avalon. My delear did the fix for my 15" wheel Carmy but it now is slightly pulling to right. The dealer refused to do more fix(I can live with it but they lost my business.). Second, I think the real right fix is for Toyota to have new Front Coil Spring Seating Upper parts intalled on pullnig cars rather than doing something on the existing parts! Yes, the dealer can fix it right now. But imagine we have to replace struts eventually (maybe in 5~6 years), how do we prevent the stuts shop from aligning the "triangle mark" rather than the "paint mark" with the centerline of the strut shaft? And who knows if the "paint mark" still can be seen after 5~6 years??? Toyota really DISAPPOINTED me on this and I WON'T buy a Toyota again!

[freddyttt]

Outville im having a big(the same)problem with my 2003 Camery,i tried finding your doc.at the yahoo board with no luck-can you please email it to me-

tommy281@optonline.net

thanks

[ether100]

Could someone who has the 2002-2004 Camry shop manual please fax me the pages pertaining to alignment?

Fax: 9 7 8

9 2 6

2 4 4 9

[ether100]

Could someone who has the 2002-2004 Camry shop manual please fax me the pages pertaining to alignment?

Fax: 9 7 8

9 2 6

2 4 4 9

Thanks very much. :)

[Outville]

It looks like the website has trashed several of our posts (again)

No wonder it's so hard to hold Toyota's feet to the fire. I have come to believe the only reason Toyota maintains a reasonable reputation is consumers like us hold them accountable and force them to come up with fixes for serious problems.

A quick recap of the last few lost posts. There is a copy of the TSB ST002-04 on the Yahoo Group Toyotas_only. I had a hard time getting signed up, so I now keep a copy I can email on request.

[Outville]

From my understanding, the left pull is caused when the upper spring mount binds the strut bearing, steering the car to the left. This effect is due to the beveled spring mount no being in the optimum position. The TSB prescribes an adjustment that eliminates this binding. There is no different "pull adjustment" due to wheel size. I would think that if your car begins a right pull after eliminating the strut bearin binding, then there are other factors in play. The pull I experienced was not steady. It was really dangerous in windy conditions.

I had problems viewing all the posts a few days ago, but that problem has been remedied.

[anilpatel]

Outville, could you mail me a copy of the TSB? I tried to send you a PM and an email, but for some reason I could not. My email address is: anil.patel@autodesk.com

Many thanks!

[hyyz]

Please see this post under 2004 Camry Solara Problems section. Seems like the reason for the left-pull problem might be at DRIVE AXLE rather than strut/spring mount. For my Camry I feel the left front end is low/soft, especially when the car hits a bump or I make a right turn. (The drive axle fundamentals: the drive axle must be able to telescope in and out when wheel is up and down.) After I did the TSB suggested fix, my Camry doesn't pull to left any more, but I still feel the car is not right(just as some of you). I sent an email to Toyota Customer Services to ask about this.