2003 Camry Alignment Problems?

[Intruder]

I haven't posted here is a while.

My situation: 2001 Solara has pulled left since it was new. 10 attempts by 2 different dealers could not correct the problem. It still has only 21k miles (because I hate driving it).

The last time it was in, a regional Tech Rep refused to apply the TSB to turn the upper spring plates claiming that pre-2003 models have different parts.

That was just confirmed on a different Toyota forum by a member who claims to be a former Toyota Parts person. He also said that they are not interchangeable with the new versions so I can't even replace the parts and make the adjustment.

So now what? If Toyota would only come forward and explain the problem I could determine if replacement springs and struts would correct the pull but they will never do that because it would be admitting that the car has a design defect.

I would gladly spend a few hundred dollars to fix this but I don't want to throw good money after bad.

Now Toyota is sending me mail asking me to sign up for an extended warrantee. The original one was worthless - now I should pay them for a few more years of this kind of support?

[aptcause]

TOYOTA has put out a bulletin regarding a left drift problem. This was made known to me today at a dealership that has treated me very very well from the beginning. The Solara will now be driven for a while. In conclusion, I feel the jury is not yet out on this issue, but I am no longer overly concerned about this nor anything else. The car in ALL other respects is like a Lexus except for far less money.

[Intruder]

Well put, Aptcause.

But I doubt that anyone from Toyota reads these forums, or if they do, they don't care. I have expressed similar comments in numerous letters to the company and the NHTSA - Toyota doesn't even bother to respond.

I am a repeat customer. In fact, I still own my '94 Camry. It has had fewer problems in 160k miles that my '01 had on delivery from the dealer.

Never again!

[aptcause]

Last night I told company here about the demise of American designed and assembled Toyotas and the problems these vehicles are now plagued with. In minutes I will be among many at a gym I use every week. There I will again disseminate this woeful tale of Toyota manufactured junk to several I know there --car enthusiasts and many others within ear shot. Toyota does not care you say? I doubt that. If they don't care they soon will, or at least once this negative talk begins to become common place. Just wait. What I want is honest openness with this manufacturer. Whether my new vehicle is safe and runs perfectly is something I am sure of -- whether Toyota faces up to its customer obligations or not. In the meantime I will do my best to warn everyone -- even in our newspapers and in one or two north of here where I know people who write. The news will get out on this and Toyota WILL COME TO CARE.

[mikeG]

I haven't posted here is a while. 

My situation:  2001 Solara has pulled left since it was new.  10 attempts by 2 different dealers could not correct the problem.  It still has only 21k miles (because I hate driving it).

The last time it was in, a regional Tech Rep refused to apply the TSB to turn the upper spring plates claiming that pre-2003 models have different parts.

That was just confirmed on a different Toyota forum by a member who claims to be a former Toyota Parts person.  He also said that they are not interchangeable with the new versions so I can't even replace the parts and make the adjustment.

So now what?      If Toyota would only come forward and explain the problem I could determine if replacement springs and struts would correct the pull but they will never do that because it would be admitting that the car has a design defect.

I would gladly spend a few hundred dollars to fix this but I don't want to throw good money after bad. 

Now Toyota is sending me mail asking me to sign up for an extended warrantee.  The original one was worthless - now I should pay them for a few more years of this kind of support?

Hi Intruder,

I also have 01 Solara with the same problems as you described. While ago, you have mentioned K-mac adjustment kit which you have ordered on-line. Did you ever received that kit? Did you already install it and did it change something? Thanks

[Intruder]

Hi Intruder,

I also have 01 Solara with the same problems as you described. While ago, you have mentioned K-mac adjustment kit which you have ordered on-line. Did you ever received that kit? Did you already install it and did it change something? Thanks

That turned out to be an expensive dead end. I received the kit and it allows Camber adjustment only. Not Caster - as their web site would lead you to believe. I returned the kit a month ago and still have not received credit for it. In fact, I just sent them an email a few minutes ago looking for my $$$ back.

[Intruder]

Aptcause.

Don't stop there. Write to your US Senators and US Representative. Demand that the NHTSA do something about this SAFETY PROBLEM. If you haven't already done so, go to the NHTSA web site and file a complaint.

NHTSA WebSite

Be sure to mention that this is a Safety Problem and your car tries to veer into oncoming traffic. Use those terms whenever you discuss the problem with newspapers, friends, etc.

And keep reopening your incident with Toyota. Every time they close it, call or write to Customer Service and reopen it. You can be sure that senior management gets summaries of their backlog. We need to always have this in their face. It would also help if the NHTSA ever decides to do something about this.

[sharon34]

I now keep a copy of the TSB ST002-04 from the Yahoo Group Toyotas_Only. It is in Adobe PDF format. If anyone has difficulty joining Yahoo, I can email it as an attachment if needed. My 2003 XLE is doing fine after the fix.

Outville, Thanks for all of your information, I am taking my car in

the morning and this has all been very helpful. Do you think you

can email me the TSB report I am having trouble joining yahoo group.

Thanks,

sbresser@fuse.net

[allboysinc]

I brought my car back to dealer (Prestige Toyota, Mahwah, NJ) for a third time yesterday with the same problem - pulling to the left. This time when I spoke with the Customer Service Manager, I had great insight related to this problem.

I went to the dealership with the knowledge of the available TSB ST002-04; with a copy of the entire TSB in my pocket. The dealership insisted that they would not apply the TSB to my car UNLESS they experience the steering pull to the left. The representative was obviously blindsided by the TSB conversation - he was the service representative who was my point-of-contact and went on a test drive with me on my second visit.

Anyway, just received a call that the car is ready for pick-up. Funny thing, I dropped the car off yesterday afternoon at around 2PM. The voicemail was left at approximately 9:40AM. While reviewing the published TSB, it looked like a very labor intensive corrective process that is needed.

I will keep everyone posted with my experience at the dealership as well as the steering problem.....Hopefully, I'll be content like Outville.

Regards,

Pulling to the Left

[Outville]

I've read the TSB and it is not all that labor intensive--it appears the spring seats are rotated without disassebling the struts. My car was returned within 5 hours. All other possible causes of left pull were eliminated prior to the adjustments being attempted. It is important that pulling from tire friction, tire conicity (wear), alignment, steering gear be eliminated prior to rotating the spring seats. I discovered by trial and error that driving the car very slowly on a level gravel surface will indicate the spring seat problem. The car will steer to the left at very low speed, whether forward or backward, and with or without the engine running.

[sharon34]

I just dropped off my car and I took some of your responses to

help them fix this problem but I think he took it as a insult because

he said our tech's our trained experts so I am thinking that this won't

be the last time I bring it in. He told me you can't always

rely on the Internet for correct information. He also told me that

we bought a used car and that sometimes happens. Our car is a

certified 2003 Camry and this shouldn't be happening. Anyway when we

bought the car in January we said something to the salesperson about

it pulling to the left and he said it was tire pressure and they took it

back and said they fixed it. We didn't notice it until a long drive to

Chicago and DC(we live 2 minutes from Cincinnati).

I hope the word gets out about this so people are made aware that this isn't a tire pressure issue. If they don't fix this problem with my car, I am going to be

very tempted to call Howard Ain(sp?) here in Cincinnati on one of the local news channels who reports on consumer problems.

I just wanted to thank everyone for all of this helpful information, I am sure if I didn't come acrossed this site I would be spending lots of money on something Toyota should be paying for.

I will keep a post of the progress........

[aptcause]

I took my 04 Lara into the dealership Monday and they mentioned awareness of the TSB regarding left drift. The tech test drove the car and then rotated the spring. After I drove it home on the highway I still noticed left pull when in the left lane. There was quite a bit of wind so it can be difficult to accutately lay blame on what was done. I have since spoken to the service manager by phone and he will accompany me on a test drive next week. It looks like the next step according to the TSB is to readjust the camber and caster a lil to bring true tracking back. What I have reflected upon with all of this is to NEVER buy a newly designed model when it 1st comes out. The Solaas coming out now have the problem rectified -- I'd be very curious what this solution was and whether the other models will always suffer some tracking problem. One other thing to realize is that Toyota is not the only car suffering problems. I has a 04 Maxima out for a test drive last year that required constant little corrective steering input while on highway. Also, owners of the newly designed Acura TSL are findin engine/transmission vibration in their cars at 53 miles an hour -- go figure!

[Intruder]

What I have reflected upon with all of this is to NEVER buy a newly designed model

Aptcause,

This problem wasn't introduced with the model refresh although it appears to affect more cars than before. If Toyota had listened to customers 3 years ago instead of blaming the road, the driver, the tires, etc. they could have avoided building thousands of defective automobiles.

It looks like Toyota's success has led them to start behaving like the German car dealers. "Our cars are perfect - We have no patience with customers who think otherwise."

[allboysinc]

Here is an update on my 2004 Camry's left pull.

I don't want to speak to loud but I think progress was made on the third visit.

Driving the car home - there was no noticable pulling to the left. Believe me when I tell everyone this, I was looking for a reason to return to the dealer so I can exercise my rights under the Lemon Law (I'm not sure it would have gotten me anywhere but, I was going to give someone GRIEF).

This morning on the way to work - the wheel for the first time did not pull to the left. It was a true experience in driving that I've forgotten! I was going north of 70 mph and the car's steering was ok.

So, all-in-all, my trial and tribulation might well be over. However, I will keep everyone updated on this fix.

Good luck to all!

[clarkthomas]

I have had my 04 camry xle to the dealer 3 times for left pull when driving and intermittent hard left pull with braking. They have applied the TSB fix and I'll pick up the car tomorrow. Are any of you having the braking problem as well? They say they inspected the brakes and there is nothing wrong - but why should I believe them!

[aptcause]

The 04 Solara left drift may be what has broken the camel's back so to speak. Granted, left drift has been a problem with earlier Toyota's, but perhaps more pronounced in the 04 Solara. Today, I received mail from the dealer asking me to call one of the owners if I was not completely satisfied with service. I called and the man was on with me immediately. He said that instead of the service manager riding in my car that I would most likely meet with a factory rep who would listen to and then observe my plight. I heard one individual mention on here that it could be in the frame. He/her suggested to spend a few bucks at a body shop that has a computerized frame straightener. This machine would then check the car's frame for straightness according to factory specks. I consider this approach on the absurd side. There are some among us who would have us believe nonsense on here. In fact......some perhaps are Honda or Nissan people attempting to steer the gullible to their products which are just as prone to manufacturing blunders. Be careful before making abrupt assumptions on the words of strangers you can not even see. Toyota does not want a recall on its cars. It's not only the obvious money that would be lost, but also, perhaps more importantly, it's golden repution on manufacturing trouble free cars. If the service bulletin is merely an attempt to placate the owner's of left drift cars, Toyota could find itself in big trouble in the near future. The current Solaras coming off the assembly line are running true. What Toyota did for these car is most likely secret. Someone with enough knowledge and savy needs to make this info availble to all who are having problems -- then the technical service bulletin may be a quick fix to a problem that will only rear its ugly head again under different driving conditions and road surfaces. If that's the case and drivers begin having crashes related to steering problems, the cat will have gotten out of the bag.

[clarkthomas]

On another list serve I read that the TSB, which calls for the struts to be shifted and the camber to be adjusted so that the vehicle tracks in the opposite direction of the pullingi, IS NOT A FIX . This causes your tires to wear faster and uneven. If this is true Toyota is simply exchanging one problem for another -- and buying time and using up our precious warranty time. Has anyone experienced this?

This is my 3rd and last Toyota.

[Mazyeve]

Hi, I found this forum while searching for facts about the left pull problem. I feel as though you have been describing my story. I have been led to believe it really isn't doing it and they are being tolerant. I have had my 2004 Camry serviced by dealership 4 times and independent shop owner twice. All the things you have described in your posts have been done to my car. I have a complete copy of the infamous ST002-04 which covers the Avalon, Camry and Solara and none of it has worked. They even put new tires on it, so they said.

I picked up my car today and it is worse than ever. I have filed a complaint with the NHTSB and I have called in a complaint to Toyota's customer service. I have a meeting scheduled tomorrow with the general manager of the dealership. I keep getting the run around from the service department. They think I will give up, but I won't. I paid too much for my car for it to be defective to the point that they can't fix it. I live too close to the factory to put up with that. I will write LEMON on the back windshield and drive it all over this area, including outside the factory. So far I have been extremely calm with Toyota but I am starting to reach my limit. This is dangerous and they have to fix it. If they don't, I will find a good lawyer who likes Lemon Law cases. My states doesn't require one to go to arbitration first.

[sharon34]

I have a 2003 Camry LE and they are saying that the TSB report

doesn't apply to this year that it is for 2004 only. I thought I read

that they are applying this to 2002-2004 Camry's, Solaras, and Avalons?

Anyway they called me yesterday to say that when the tech test drove

my Camry that he didn't notice any kind of pull to the left(What!!). I knew then

that this problem was going to be very difficult to get fixed. So they

did an alignment and said that it was no charge even though the warranty

was expired for that.

So we went out for a test drive and guess what, IT PULLED TO THE LEFT. He

first tried to say that it was the road or the steering wheel wasn't straight, I thought

to myself this is crazy. So I kept letting it go and the car was going to the left,

I am sure the people on the highway thought I had a few drinks at happy hour!

So finally after a few times of switching from the slow lane to the fast lane(because

he was thinking it was the different lanes doing it) and being in the emergency lane when I didn't want to be there but the car wanted to be there, HE FINALLY SAID IT ISN'T THE ALIGNMENT AND THERE IS A PROBLEM!! Thank you I feel

better but I know that since I have a 2003 Camry I may have more of a problem

getting this fixed.

I have another appointment on Tuesday, it was going to be tomorrow but they

said they are booked up and wont be able to get to it. I think it is more like we need time to investigate this with corporate so make it Tuesday.

I live in the Cincinnati area so if anybody has some insight here please let me know.

Thanks!

[hyyz]

My 04 Camry LE pulled to left. Then I had the dealership apply the TSB fix. They even replaced a tire for me. Now it slightly pull to right. But I think the TSB suggested fix might not be the right fix because I always feel the steering is not right . Whenever the car is running on a rough road (like gravel road), under vibration condition, the steering turns to left by itself(even before they made the fix). I can clearly notice this if I slow down the speed and let the car slowly run through the rough road. The steering wheel ALWAYS turns to left by itself. There must be a defect somewhere, either at suspension or steering. I think what the TSB suggests is just a way to force steeing wheel to right so that it can compensate the left pull. IT IS NOT A REAL FIX. I remember Outville described the same feeling on another forum. Outville, after your car has been applied the TSB fix, do you still feel the sttering wheel turns that way? Let me know.

[Outville]

I believe I have made these points in this and other forums, but I will sum up my experience for the sake of others. I purchased my 2003 Camry in August 2003 and discovered the left pull the next day. I went through numerous trips back to the dealer, as well as one trip to an independent shop. Every imaginable test was done to eliminate causes of the left pull and wind steer. The dealer first acknowledged the problem but later denied it existed. I went through an unsuccessful lemon law arbitration in which I discovered the burden of proof of a defect is on the consumer, not the dealer.

After the arbitration, I continued my letter-writing campaign, which included letters to Toyota Costumer Service. A few weeks after the arbitration, I was contacted by the regional customer service manager, requesting another opportunity to attempt repairs. I was put in contact with a factory technician who explained that a problem had been discovered involving the positioning of the wedge-shaped upper spring seat, which put a binding force on the upper strut bearing. This problem became readily apparent in the 2004 SE Sport which has stiffer springs and harder tires than the earlier models. I was advised that a technical service bulletin had been created that required the counterclockwise 1" rotation of the upper spring seat to alleviate the binding, which was causing a left pull.

When I met with the technician in Janary, we discussed all the tests I had performed, which included driving the car very slowly on a gravel surface, both forward and backward, and observing the steering wheel turn about 20 degrees left, whether or not the engine was running. By this time, the car had 5000 miles, of which over 500 had been driven to and from dealerships for attempted repairs.

My car was taken to the dealership, and TSB ST002-04 applied. Within 1 mile of the dealership, I released the steering wheel and traveled over 1/4 mile in the right lane of a city steet (Brice Rd south of Main in Columbus) without having to touch the wheel.

A few days later, the technician called to ask if the problem was resolved. I advised him that the car drove properly. He then told me it was my test on the gravel surface that let him know exactly the cause of the left pull. It was any bump, vibration, or other external input, causing the springs to exert twisting force on the upper strut bearings, steering the car to the left. The Toyota people DO review the NHTSA complaints, they DO review the discussion groups, and they DO respond to well-written complaints. Lemon Law arbitrations DO shield the manufacturer, Attorneys General DO shrug off auto complaints, and most independent shops will not get involved in a dispute as long as your warranty is involved.

My car now shows 10,000 miles, and it has driven perfectly since the repair. It has plenty of steering feedback, and requires right correction against a left crown and left correction against a right road crown. There is some wind steer, but nothing like before. At speeds of 80-90, it is a pleasure to drive. Before, it was just too much work to sustain speeds above 70, especially in heavy traffic.

WRITE to Toyota Customer Service, file complaints with NHTSA, and don't let the local manager lie his or her way out of honoring your warranty.

[Intruder]

Thanks, Great input Outville.

You were very fortunate to have a 2003. Apparently the upper strut parts are identical to the 2004 so the TSB could be applied to your car. Those of us with a Left Pull and poor straight line stability on pre-2003 models have no hope of a fix from Toyota because the upper spring plate cannot be turned - or so I am told.

I have written dozens of letters to the NHTSA, Toyota, legislators, etc. Just recently, for the first time, Toyota actually wrote back and said that their mechanics are highly trained and their cars are wonderful so they consider my issues closed so I should stop bothering them.

I had planned on keeping my Solara for a looooong time since it is always garaged and I don't put many miles on it. But now that any hope of a resolution has been killed, I will probably sell it this year and buy something more road worthy - definitely not a Toyota. Three years of bad driving and aggravation is enough!

BTW, Toyota keeps bugging me to buy an extended warrantee now that the original one has expired. They are offering years of worry free driving backed by qualified Toyota Service.

[sharon34]

My car is back at Toyota and they called me to inform me

that there is nothing wrong with my car. They said it

was something I was doing with the steering when we took it out

with the Toyota tech, oh and that lovely road crown thing again.

Yeah I really want to be here with you driving

around when there is nothing wrong with the car like I have

nothing else better to do. Anyway they won't even

consider doing the TSB instructions on my 2003 Camry because they

said it's only on 17inch wheels. Oh well I guess this is my first and last

Toyota. We almost bought a Mazda6, I guess I should have went with

my first choice!!!!

[Intruder]

Sharon34.

That is B.S. There is no mention of the wheel size in the TSB. It applies to 2004 models below specific VIN numbers when a production change was made.

Others have reported their 2003 cars were fixed with the TSB also but I have never heard of any pre-2003 models being fixed.

[aldine47]

Well i had my 04 camry se back in for the third time last week to correct the drift. To summarize the situation:

1st time (early feb - a few days after purchase) - car pulled somewhat hard to the left at 35+ mph, the tsb was applied and the condition was lessened slightly, but other problems arose, so i scheduled an appointment to have it looked at for the...

2nd time (early march) because the car still pulls only slightly to the left at highway speeds (55+) and now the car is very succeptible to wind (both natural and caused by other cars & trucks) and the steering wheel is off-center. The car was looked at by the service manager and, to quote the receipt, "driveing fine" (they, a car dealership, misspelled driving) hmmmm... so i scheduled an appointment and took it back in for...

3rd time (early april) because the car now pulls slightly to the right at highway speeds (55+) but the steering wheel is center and the car feels more 'solid' (no unusual wind-caused drifts). The service manager confirmed this and could not remedy the problem, so they ordered all new strut plates, which will be in this week.

I wonder what will be the outcome if the problem is not fixed with the new parts installed. That is, after the service manager has acknowledged that the car is not steering straight, and that they could not correct it with the service info from Toyota. I wonder...