Lowered Suspension Problems?

[philjones1978]

Hi, I'm just about to order lowered springs and uprated dampers for my 98 Corolla SR but before I do I have one last query. I've heard (admitidly from a berk in my office) that lowering your suspension leads to a camber and geometry change and thus increased wear and tear on inner/outer edges of tires. Is this true and how do I get around it? Can my local Toyota dealer change the camber and geometry after it's been lowered?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

[Surinder]

In theory it would, as your changing the distance between the wheel hub and the top of the strut. But it shouldnt affect it loads unless you drop the car a lot. A 30 to 40mm drop should be ok. On most road cars only the camber at the front can be adjusted or changed anyway, rear is normally fixed. I believe this is the case for the Yaris TS, dont know about corolla .

Toyota do a full wheel realigment for around £120, don't know if this includes camber adjustment too.

The if there is a noticable change in camber after fitting lowering springs, the car will turn a bit better :). And the tyres will wear on the inside slightly quicker than normal :(. But i think you'd have to be really fussy to notice.

Surinder...

[philjones1978]

Thanks for the help. I'm going for a 35mm drop which isn't too bad.

[ae111sr]

Toyota do a full wheel realigment for around £120, don't know if this includes camber adjustment too.

The Toyota dealer in Cardiff siad that he couldn't do an alignment for my Corolla SR with Eibach -25mm springs. The system they use needs the chassis number to be punched into the computer and it then tells them what the correct setup should be - because I had lowering springs on he said it couldn't be done.

On a cautionary note Phil I've just had Koni top adjustable shocks and Fensport -30mm springs put on my car and the suspension keeps "bottoming out" going over minor road surface imperfections (potholes). It's as though the Konis don't have enough travel to work properly - they may be fine with an unlowered vehicle. I'm waiting for some email replies to the problem - don't spent your money yet mate - hang on til I get it sorted.

[philjones1978]

Thanks for the advice. Could it be that 'cos your on 16's the SR keeps bottoming out? I'm still on the 14 inch wolfrace's. Fair play, I love my SR but modding it has been one hell of a hassle. Should have bought a Ford! Nah, stuff it, I'll make ot work somehow.

[ae111sr]

I had a problem with the tyres scrubbing the rear arches but that got sorted. No this is a problem with the suspension movement and I'm pretty sure that the Konis are the culprit. When I had the Eibach springs and Konis I had the same problem. With the transplanted engine/gearbox being a lot heavier than the standard unit I've gone for Fensport +40% uprated with 30mm drop.

[philjones1978]

I wonder if the kyb dampers would give the same problems. Can you let me know if you grt this sorted please?

[HKS_TC_Corolla_GTi]

John

Thought I would reply here rather than email. You are correct, the reason why your suspension is bottoming out is due to the lack of travel for the shocks. Although, its difficult to determine how serious your problem is since I dont know what you view as 'minor potholes'.

I've had alot of problems with my suspension too in the past, mainly the front. I really do think that they could have all been avoided if I had invested in some decent Jap Coil-Over kits. These ensure you maintain damping travel no matter the riding height, which incidently is adjustable.

I started off with Fensport Springs and 20% uprated KYB shocks, this worked really well and the car handled great. The only problem here was that I could feel it when I went over an ant.

Eventually, I moved onto Koni adjustable shocks. At the time I was running Wolfrace 16" alloys with a 45 profile. The lack of damping from the Koni's coupled with the stiffness of the Fensport Springs ensured that my alloys managed to crack along most of the spokes - no joke. It was the harshness of the bottoming-out caused by the crap suspension.

From here I went to Eibach Springs and TRD adjustable shocks, things improved greatly as far as ride quality was concerned. However, one afternoon staring at another car the wrong way on a roundabout (after a 180 degree slide) ensured me things were still not right. Eventually found that the passenger side shock was totally gone, the tyre was hitting the arches even at low speed.

From here, I have now gone back to the Koni's, things have improved again, the bottoming-out has gone, but this is probably due to the change in Springs.

I am still getting the annoying noise though of the Koni insert moving inside the strut casing, no matter how much I tighten it!

I am wondering if I would be better off going back to the KYB shocks (30% uprate).

If you are still bottoming-out with the Koni's, I would seriously get your money back. These things are only guaranteed so long as they DONT bottom-out. They also weep oil all the time (normal), make sure you wash the strut casing before any MOT as your MOT inspector will not understand or care. The Koni's are crap. I may start to source some Coil-Overs.

Sorry - I know its not what you want to hear but just trying to advise. Jon would be of much more help to you here - he knows a fair bit about suspension.

Nad

[Unity Jon]

After a lot of trial and error I'm running KYB's 20% uprated all round with 30mm drop upfront and stock height out rear, i've got this because my 17's rubbed ever so slightly, but now i've welded new rear arches i can roll a 30mm drop out back with no worries.

if your car is bottoming out it is most definately the shock loosing travel, this is really bad and quite dangerous and things will break.

If its hitting the bump stops its a firm yet controlled feeling as the bumpstops compress under pressure, its not such a 'hard' feeling, like metal on metal.

as for the geometry, yes it will change when you lower a car you can get away with about a 2' change before you need camber adjustments ect and although 2' doesnt sound much its in fact loads, much more than a 40mm drop will give you, i've lowered cars by 8 INCHES and still had the handling geometry in tollerable limits. Anything over 60mm and you'll really start to notice twitchy steering and also the front will seem to 'lift' when the wheels are straight and drop in a arc to either side when the whells are turned, its a funny sensation and can really help with weight transfer if your in a race car, but on the street forget it.

make sure our tyres are inflated correctly too as this helps loads.

[philjones1978]

Cheers for all the help.

I think I may go for the Fensport 35mm springs with KYB + 20% Shocks, even though the ride is supposedly rock hard. I'm a bit undecided though. I was thinking about getting the TRD uprated anti-roll bars and bushes as I think they'll improvethe handling a lot but not destroy the ride (roads around here are on the bumpy side).

What do you guys reckon, as you obviously know a lot more about suspension than me?

Can't believe that the Koni's give so many problems seeing as they cost the earth and have an excellent reputation.

[philjones1978]

When I said that I couldn't believe Koni's were so s**t, I wasn't accusing you of lying! I just thought they were supposed to be good!

[Unity Jon]

the Koni's were probably developed for another car, they just moved the bolt holes so tey'd bolt up to a different car of 'simiar' weight.

Pure speculation though. ;)

[ae111sr]

Just found out that the springs I've got are not +40% uprated - they are 0% uprated - bog standard springing but -30mm ride height. That might be the reason I have trouble!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+30% -30mm springs now on order but they take 4 weeks to be made. I'll be putting the Eibach springs back on in the meantime so as not to damage the suspension. Thanks guys for all your help and advice. Sorry to have ighjacked your thread Phil. It's all yours again now. :P

[philjones1978]

No probs John! :D

So, anyone got any ideas as to what is my best option?

Which springs? Which shocks?

Has anyone tried the TRD anti roll bars and bushes?

***** I'm confused!

[knowlson]

how could I have missed this post

I would just go for TTE springs mate and not bother with the dampers It wont do your car anyharm. And then if you do an engine conversion then do the shocks and stuff

No idea about the TRD roll bars but they look just as big as the ones I now installed from my levin donor car

If you go gold mate you might be able to save some money on those part you are after go on go gold

[philjones1978]

Where can I buy TTE stuff from? All I've found for my Corolla is Fensport stuff and a dutch website.

[knowlson]

You should be able to get TTE stuff from your local dealer mate if not there is a guy on here who I think has a contact with TTE he normally has loads of info on TTE his forum name is superchargedIS200 but dont know him but someone will be along who can tell you mate

[knowlson]

you could also try www.boostertuning.com mate they do springs and there is a uk dealer called upauto.co.uk who should be able to get them for you also it might be woth having a look at www.toyoshop.nl they are a german company that also sell boosterkit but have loads of tuning stuff for the ae111

[Guest]

What for shocks are in the rear in a G6-R , because i want to lower my Rolla also with TTE springs

[ae111sr]

Just a quick update. This morning I put the Eibach front springs back on with the Top adjustable Konis. What an improvement!! It looks like the standard rated springs were sent to me in error and ther are some 30% uprated -30mm drop springs on order so that should sort the suspension once and for all.

[dawesy]

glad your sorted john. whats the latest with the exhaust?

[ae111sr]

Looking and sounding good so far. 2.5" pipework (2mm wall thickness), high performance 100 cell cat (a lot of notes for a very small box but I don't have to swap de-cat pipe at MOT time). Centre box about twice the size of the Longlife one and back box is about the same sort of size. Preformed right angle bends are welded into the rest of the pipework so there's no pinching or crushing of the pipe walls. Finished off with a 2.5" outwardly rolled tail pipe - I decides that the 4" slash cut was not really me - much too aggressive and like a "red rag" to boy racers at traffic lights. :P It's much quieter (even though the bore is larger) and it still makes that nasty pulsing/throbbing resonance but it's nowhere near as bad as it was. I haven't had it back on the rollers yet - I'll wait for the weather to cool down a bit before I try that - cooler denser air makes more power

[philjones1978]

HMMMMM! Just been to my local Toyota dealer who couldn't find any TTE or any suspension mods for my Corolla SR whatsoever!

So guys what should I buy?

Springs :-

Fensport progressively wound -35mm +20% stiffer

or

One's I've found on the Dutch and German internet sites?

Shocks:-

KYB 20% uprated

or

Koni top adjustables?

[ae111sr]

Phil,

With the Koni top adjustables (at their firmest setting) and the Eibach springs (-25mm +20%) my Rolla feels just a little soft but you have to remember that my engine/gearbox is quite a bit heavier than standard. I reckon you should be fine with these with a standard engine - in fact I was quite happy with the standard shocks and the Eibach springs.

A word of advice here - if you do go for the Konis you have to cut the standard strut and remove the innards before you can fit the Koni cartridge - I'm not sure if this is the same for the KYBs.

[Guest]

I am saving a few € and than i go for the TTE ( Eibach) from the german shop in Gummersbach € 110 with sending cost to Holland and they are 20-30% stiffer for my G6-R are these fine for my orginal shocks AE111SR this is a question for you

regards JO G6-R