Cts V's Ctr

[t-sporttinny]

Well finally managed to get a Civic Type R to race us on the M6 near us, had to say provoked him into some serious speeds.......Am now convinced our beloved Corolla can beat the Civic through 4-5-6 if you drive it right.

Think the CTR can outpace us on the 0-60 but it certainly depends on your own driving further up the speed.

Has anyone else tried and tested beaten a type r through the top range of the gears. ?!?!?

[chrisio]

A Civic R tried to pick on me , also on the M6.

He came up behind me and started the 'pushing' style of driving they seem to love.

He had obviously never seen a Compressor before

I dropped from 6 to 4 at around 70-ish and booted it.

I caught him by surprise and slowed to give him another chance.

Or no chance....

When I let him overtake eventually his passenger was trying to look at every angle to see what the car was that spanked him :P

Disclaimer:

Of course, by M6 I mean a private test track, in Germany, etc, etc :P

[Blacksheep]

I thought the corolla would be better 0-60 (traction control) and i'm not sure if it could beat a determined driver in a CTR I thought they were more powerfull and lighter which I presume would give it a distinct advantage, i've only raced one once before and there didn't seem to be much in it but I don't know how hard the CTR was trying, though infairness he seemed to be miffed the corolla was only a 1.8... :-)

[K19NE G]

All I know is my mate in one of the older type Civic VTecs spanked me several times back in Ireland and he had two passengers! :( This was me with my K&N Typhoon kit too!!!

[rolley]

All I know is my mate in one of the older type Civic VTecs spanked me several times back in Ireland and he had two passengers! :( This was me with my K&N Typhoon kit too!!!

Thats even more scary as the Civic VTI which I gather your talking about is a 1.6 pushing 160 bhp. My friend has one and we went for a stroll out and about. On a nice dual carriageway I would say it was pretty much kneck and kneck but we were from a rolling start. From a standing start the weight of his car (v.light) and our over intrusive traction control hampers the o-60 time in the CTS. So he would have made me eat his exhaust fumes.

Aparently there isn't much in it between the Civic VTI old shape and the CTR. Only a fraction quicker 0-60 is the CTR. Again my friend had a ding dong with one and the CTR couldn't get away.

The CTR vs our beloved is a good one. I reacon on a rolling start its gonna be kneck and kneck, its when we come to race them on normal roads they have a major edge over us. They are lower and handle better round corners. Thats our downfall, plus our intrusive traction control which helps the CTR leave us from a standing start! Plus the CTRs lift kicks in a bit lower than ours and carries on for longer!!! The Civic VTI kicks in at 5500 revs and stops at 8000+ revs

Think thats why Mr T built the compressor. Mr T now has the edge over Honda!!!

You can see that Mr T isn't happy with honda at all when he heard about the CTR!!!

[nightrax]

l have had a couple of races with Civic Type-R's up to a number of diffrent speads 65, 70, 75 +50, 60MPH (My speedo was only lying a little)

And the Civic cant get away from the T-Sport, In the higher revs of 4th and 5th - l think l started to pull away a little. As far as im aware the Type-R has 198BHP so not much more than us, and with the recent changes l have done to the car. Fully synthetic engine and gearbox oil, l have definatly notice a diffrence in speed.

l cant say that l have raced one off the lights but, l think that our good old T-sport would prob loose thanks to traction control :ffs: but on the flip side l do like my tyre's

[Rinko]

Do people think that with a VVTL-I controller and a change of when the lift kicks in more in line with the VTEC would even the playing field with the CTR ?

I'm thinking of spending some cash on a few bits and pieces for my CTS for some cosmetic improvements, but when I'm done the engine is certainly going to get some money thrown at it.

[chrisio]

I see people complaining about the traction control but I can turn it off on my Compressor and I could on my '02.

I took my '02 down the strip at North Weald and it was quicker with it switched off

[linty264]

Thats what i was gonna say turn the damn traction control off lol lots more fun.

[Ed_Shek]

Thats what i was gonna say turn the damn traction control off lol lots more fun.

Might seem like a dumb question but your saying if you turn the traction control off the car is faster and performs better right?

[chrisio]

The traction control kills the spark when it detects wheelspin.

You lose power and have to lift off the throttle to get it off.

Turn it off and you control the wheelspin yourself

[PaulT]

The traction control kills the spark when it detects wheelspin.

You lose power and have to lift off the throttle to get it off.

Turn it off and you control the wheelspin yourself

I think it's actually suction on the inlet rather than cutting the spark, as you never seem to get unburnt fuel popping on the exhaust

I think it might also tamper with the brakes as well, as there seems to be a lot of clunking around compared to simply cutting the mixture.

Either way, I tried the 0.25 mile with TRC on and off and I didn't see a noticeable difference unless you really get it wrong with TRC off. It is quite hard to beat the computer to control wheelspin.

The TRC won't save your tyres much either!

Paul.

[chrisio]

I stand corrected :P

It gives the effect of spark loss so I assumed that's what it was.

On the strip I got 15.9 with traction control and 15.7 without.

This was my two week old original T-Sport a few years back

[TRunX]

I might have to try it with it off. As haven't switch it off once yet but I think it makes lazy as I assume the traction control will do all the work but it some how doesn't seem to stop the wheels spinning.

[Zuban]

:/

still the same old ctr vs cts threads :D

I used to have a cts and threads like this made me laugh, I tried my cts against ctr's of all sorts, endless times.

Having had loads of experience in this area. A standard ctr vs cts = ctr every time, no matter what you think, honda spent a lot more time making the ctr the quicker car.

TCS, turn it off if you want to keep up with a ctr from 0-60, it cuts the power. End of. The brakes dont come into play under straight line accelaration. A stock cts can manage a low 6 second 0-60 if you have tcs off and keep about 50% throttle down during the 1st to 2nd gear change, and manage to keep the engine on the high cam. You can pretty much match a ctr for 0-60, but your not going to beat it, it has better gearing and a better spread of torque.

For those who think its hard to better tcs for wheelspin, I was timed doing 0-60's with tcs on in 7.4 seconds. several times, couldnt better it, the tcs just cut power, with it off i was doing 0-60 in 6.4 seconds, several times again, thats a second, which in terms of 0-60 is a lifetime.

As stock the cts has terrible high speed aerodynamics, forget the drag coefficient, the fact its six feet of the ground means the amount of air traveling underneath it is eating your top end, dropping the car on coilovers instantly makes the car faster, for example, one grey ctr, well we were similar up to 80-90 then the ctr would take off, after i installed coilovers, and decked it, suddenly there was nothign it it, purely the amount of air under the car, the cts is well known for coming with stilts as standard :D

Fact is toyota never aimed the car to compete with the ctr, and as such it cant. The gearing is wrong, the suspension is wrong, now that doesnt mean that the car isnt capable, as it is, I had coilovers, and an empty cabin behind the front seats, and I used to come up against a ctr with induction/manifold/exhaust and a few other mods and he couldnt keep up. but as standard he would leave me for dust, but then he had full interior, fact is there similar, but honda had a different aim from the start and it is regardless of what you think its the faster car without a lot of mods, if you beat one, its down to situation and driver. As an aside my car with induction/ exhaust, and rear seats and spare wheel removed was faster than a cts compressor, less weight for the win, if you dont use your rear seats and dont travel that far ditch your spare, enjoy mental acceleration :D

Oh and a cts is lighter than a ctr :P

[rolley]

Fact is toyota never aimed the car to compete with the ctr

Very True. Zuban

CTS is more of a sports tourer with refinement, i.e air-con climate control, comfy seats and an engine that will deliver comfortably. Oringinally toyota geared it for young professionals.

The CTR was more a fast hatch. Designed to keep you on your toes, but handling that would make you feel confident of thrashing it. Sometimes i find the stock CTS can be a bit wavy at hich speed hence why i'm trying to save up for some nice coilovers.

The CTR will always have the edge on a CTS, but it doesn't take much to change the CTS to enable it to give the CTR a run for its money. Drop it make it breath and your even with the CTR. Well Roughly its down to the driver and what he knows and does!

Oh and a cts is lighter than a ctr :P

Is the CTS actually lighter than the CTR?

[T128]

when traction control come on even for less than a second it does slow you down and i am not taking about just pull away first gear,traction can come on in 2-3 gear's during full throttle in any kind of road condidtion i think it is best to have it switch off.

cts can keep up with ctr but the fact's are keeping up and beating one is whole different matter, it will take a true dedicate toyota fan to get their t sport to beat a type R and with just a K&N Typhoon (or any other induction kit) with tte back box isn't going to get you anywhere there,i guess is a start but long way to go,it seens to me after doing these basic mod's people alway sell there car maybe they expect to beat ctr and it didn't so they go sell there car who know's.

i have a helpful hint if anyone want to get there tsport faster first thing to avoid are tte back box at all cost they are big and heavy with no power gain what so ever.

[Rinko]

What alternative exhausts have people got other than the TTE one that actually yeilded a performance gain?

[Bodgit]

sorry everone but i have to ask the question. Will the compressor beat the type r?

[Rinko]

sorry everone but i have to ask the question. Will the compressor beat the type r?

From what some owners have posted it sounds like it does (I think that's partly why Mr T made it - apart from normal TS failing the EU emissions tests iirc), it's certainly a far more evenly matched car than the standard TS if it's not quicker!

[PaulT]

I might have to try it with it off. As haven't switch it off once yet but I think it makes lazy as I assume the traction control will do all the work but it some how doesn't seem to stop the wheels spinning.

I think if the traction control cut in when the car was stationary the engine would stall. Always seems to be a bit of slip until the car gets moving.

Paul.

[linty264]

Ive only had a go at a ITR old shape with the 187bhp engine but it meant to be very quick not sure what mods he has but i kicked his **** (with TC on) not by much but it doesnt matter if u win by an inch or a mile lol. Must get my gf to race me in her dads CTR.

If your goin for coilovers get TEINs I am really impressed with mine solid handling and at around 520quid delivered prolly the cheaper of the lot of them.

[T128]

so what is your cts packing to claim you beat a DC4 type R ? and why bother racing CTR when you beaten a faster car.

[rolley]

If your goin for coilovers get TEINs I am really impressed with mine solid handling and at around 520quid delivered prolly the cheaper of the lot of them.

Aye thats the plan some nice Super Streets on it and slam it down. That should have a damn good effect to handling. Where did you get yours from? if you don't mind me asking!

[Zuban]

The cts is an estimated 30-40 kg (depending on number of doors) lighter than a ctr, it makes perfect sense when you figure the cts engine and gearbox is lighter, and the rear suspension is of a simpler design.

When the cts weight figures are quoted, magazines etc seem to take the heaviest corolla as being the cts, which i dont beleive it is.