New Block, Pistons And Rings

[bigfiiish]

Hey everyone.

Just asking around if anyone else has had an experience like this??

I left the car in for its 1year service last week, with only 7.5k on the clock. Hadnt seen any telltale signs of what i was about to be told but heres the story:

Came back in to pick the car up after work, the tech said "theres good news, bad news and good news"

The good news is the service cost £15 less than expected, the bad news is we discovered a fault with the engine which is going to need some work.

The pistons and rings had "ovalled" so that they werent making a perfect seal with the obviously round cylinders, which was then wearing the cylinder walls and guzzling oil... at about a litre every thousand miles.

To cut a long story short i was told that it needed a whole new short motor - bottom end, pistons and rings.

Basically £3500 + Vat +Labour for 2 days.

Just when i was reaching for the loaded revolver he said "oh, the good news is its a common fault, its all to be done under warranty".

Seems a bit odd ive never seen anyone on here with the same problem?? still waiting on the call for this to be done but ill keep you posted.

Has anyone been in my position here?

[tsportkid]

I would be very angry even if its covered under warranty. Its quite alarming to find out that the cts has lots of problems and known faults with it. I worked for toyota in a dealership for 6 years and now I am on the receiving end of problems with a Toyota. Starting to wish i had kept my passat, but that was no better really!

[Jones~32]

Is this a similar problem to the 'Burning Oil' 1.8 vvti issues?

Least its gonna be sorted under warranty

[tsportkid]

I would be very angry even if its covered under warranty. Its quite alarming to find out that the cts has lots of problems and known faults with it. I worked for toyota in a dealership for 6 years and now I am on the receiving end of problems with a Toyota. Starting to wish i had kept my passat, but that was no better really!

Toyota must know that it affects cars built between certain dates. If there were no tell tale signs how did the tech find out? If Toyota are waiting to tell customers only when they come in for service or another problem I think they are leaving it a little late.

From my experience with the vvt engines they should be run in hard from day one. When I was a finance manager in a toyota dealer I had 3 corolla t sports as demos. I can tell everybody now that I ran them all in hard from day one and never had to put oil in them in the first 5000 miles from new. I saw plenty of vvt engined cars particularly avensis which had come in with engine failure from the engine running dry from oil.

[bigfiiish]

I think its exactly the same as the 1.8 vvti petrol oil burning problems, but i dont think its limited to the 1.8's

A guy i work with had a 1.6 corolla old shape (1994? i think?) which drank more than oliver reed. They palmed him off by offering him a free litre of oil every time he ran low. He just called in every other week and got a free litre bottle of Shell Helix, he ended up with so many i think about 15 bottles ended up on e-bay!!

Back to topic however the tech in Toyota said that they had carried out a similar warranty repair in a 1999 corolla just last week, so they would have discovered the problem by then surely?? Seven years later? and still covered by warranty?

Well ive been promised its all new parts, so at least im getting about 7500 miles taken off the life of the motor, could have been worse i suppose, they could have looked at the blitz sonic intake and tols me to p!$$ off.

Im happy enough, just wondering did anyone else hear about it..

[Jones~32]

bigfiiish - Your mate with a 94 Rolla will have the 4AFE, completely different engine type to the VVTi

That is probably down to old age more than anything ;)

Tsportkid - Your saying you would hammer your car from new? :!Removed!:

[bigfiiish]

Mmmm fair point Jones, never thought of that my bad!

Buddy has just texted me too to say that his dads Avensis had the same problem too.

Pity we didnt know this pre-sales..

Would it have changed our minds??? probably not :D

[PaulT]

Well I ran my car in gently from new and it sipped oil. I never had to put any in between yearly services despite thrashing it, the odd track day etc.

I can only guess that this problem affected a fairly small number of units, as the 2zzge has an excellent reputation for lack of oil use.

The vvti 1.8 on the other hand does seem to be a bit thirsty.

Paul.

[tsportkid]

bigfiiish - Your mate with a 94 Rolla will have the 4AFE, completely different engine type to the VVTi

That is probably down to old age more than anything ;)

Tsportkid - Your saying you would hammer your car from new? :!Removed!:

I am saying exactly that because all the cars I had use of never used any oil during the running in period.

They never came back with any engine problems

[Jones~32]

I am saying exactly that because all the cars I had use of never used any oil during the running in period.

They never came back with any engine problems

:!Removed!:

[Blacksheep]

Well I run mine in properly and I don't go anywhere near 'lift' until the engine is warm, and mine doesn't use any oil at all I have its 30,000 mile service due in 1000 miles, I checked the oil on the weekend it still clean and full...

Now if I hadn't listened to my Radio so loud that might still be working... :(

[tsportkid]

Well I run mine in properly and I don't go anywhere near 'lift' until the engine is warm, and mine doesn't use any oil at all I have its 30,000 mile service due in 1000 miles, I checked the oil on the weekend it still clean and full...

Now if I hadn't listened to my Radio so loud that might still be working... :(

I dont take mine near the lift point for 20 mins from cold. I aint daft.

I am not suggesting you thrash it from cold, I was saying that once fully warm I used to give my cars some stick from new. They performed better when they loosened up.

My ts had covered 47k when I got it and in 6000 miles has used approx 200mls of oil.

[rolley]

I was gonna say these engines are damn near indestructable but reading the title I have to retract that statement.

Its seems to be the first i've ever heard of a new engine build but it happens, maybe your car was built on a friday at the end of the shift tsportkid!!! Its one of those things its not down to your style of driving it could be a damaged cam shaft or uneven piston surfaces. The main thing its being done free of charge, be thankful its been spotted now and not later out of warranty.

Anyway regards to hammering it!!!

The cars ecu will not allow you into lift when shes cold. When the engine gets past third notch on the temp gauge she will hit lift then Not that i know this at all! :!Removed!:

As for breaking in an engine it used to be the in thing for the older cars. But they didn't have the technology we have today!!! One place to check is the owners manual, if it states a run in period needs to be undertaken then yeah its best. But modern cars are already pre tested and as the engine is precisely constructed a run in period doesn't need to be undertaken as much as it used to.

Take in to consideration Peugeot, their current range of cars don't need to be serviced unitl its 2 year b'day or 20k miles. The entire range I believe, I did have a courtesy 206 1.4 petrol 2 years ago an that then was 20k service on that!

[martenj76]

I trashed mine from day one and it runs perfectly after about 65 000 miles (drinks normal amount of oil. When i do oilchange every 1000 miles its mabye half-full so that is ok and normal). I was told that run it hard from day one because if the piston-rings that are when new a bit "softer" and does harden after some time and if you floor it from day one they will make a perfect fit seal between the piston and the cylinderwall because of the heat and pressure.

If you don't trash it from beginning it may not make a perfect seal which will let some oil up in the cumbustion-chamber.

My two rules is

Don't trash the engine when cold. Wait until the watertemp meter is halv-way

Let Toyota do service, or if i change the oil myself get GOOD oil that Toyota recommends (Castrol)

[bigfiiish]

Good News!

After a thourough look about and inspection they have said the car doesnt need a new short motor after all!!

They said that they were just being over cautious initially and it is really the 1.8 vvti which they were replacing the blocks pistons and rings on. He says the 2ZZGE Lift blocks are pretty tough but mine does seem to be using a bit much oil.

And for the record i always warm it up before the needle even sees 6k+ revs, no point knackering an engine out of impatience for the sake of 5 or 10 mins.

So seems like a bit of a false alarm all in all.

One very relieved owner!

[Jones~32]

Glad its ok :D

[bigfiiish]

Good God it never ends...

Just got a call from the toyota garage again saying that they WERE going to do the engine and piston swap after all!

They said that Toyota has now recognised this as a problem and that they have scheduled another corolla TS and two Celicas of the same stock in for swaps in the next 3 weeks. they had ordered the engine before they even phoned me!

So either i was fobbed off with the whole story the last time or they geniunely have changed their mind and recognised this as a problem, either way im none too happy.

Cars booked in for the 23rd Nov to get the work done so im being squeezed into a 1.0 yaris for 2 or 3 days till its all fixed. Not so great when your 6'6" lol :D

Only thing is this time its going to need properly run in, its not a bench run in motor like you would get in a brand new car, this is a crate motor which is going to need kid gloves for 1500 miles

The saga continues...

[Adz]

Hi

I think i'm experiencing the same issue. Mine's an 02 plate with 37k miles on it, i've had it 2 years now with no problems until recently. I've been keeping a close eye on the oil since the MOT in april when they said it was very low and noticed it seems to have run low quite quickly after the last service, it's currently having a oil consumption test.

One thing I have also noticed, and it would be interesting to know if any one with oil problems has experienced the same thing, is that there is a very loud rattle, like something is loose, coming from under the bonnet when pulling away. I've had a tensioner and belt replaced, then it came back, then I had the fan belt tensioner replaced and it came back. I believe they are connected and think that its not the replacement tensioners that are curing the rattle, but the added oil. Having seen the cost 'bigfiiish' was quoted i'm getting worried as mine's out of warranty now

cheers

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[Black Knight]

It's unlikely to be the same issue as the Avensis 1.8. They all seem to be much higher mileages 30,000 to 40,000 from what you see about on this site.

If it's using large amounts of oil this early it'll be either missed piston rings, leaking past the valve guides/seals or bore honing done wrong or something like that. Unless the dealer stripped the engine right the way down they wouldn't be able to check the ovality of rings/bores and they wouldn't have time to do that during routine service so I'll bet they were guessing at the cause (plus dealers tend to know sweet FA about engines)

My guess to the confusion regarding engine change requirement is that someone noticed a Corolla high oil consumption and got a little over enthusiastic. They confused the problem between the cars (like a couple of people have done above) and told you it needed changing. They realise the mistake when they query with Toyota and come back to you saying it's ok. Toyota then come back to them and go yeah actually it does need changing. Just a guess