3s-ge Power Delivery?

[zetecuk]

I've got a 1993 5th Gen Celica GT (cat model), and was wondering what the power delivery is meant to be like on these engines?

Mine is okay from 3-4000 rpm, then seems really sluggish from 4000 until about 5100, when there is a sudden vtec-like jump in power and it takes off all the way up to 7000rpm.

What causes the jump in power, and is it something that is meant to be opening up nearer 4000 rpm?

Thanks,

Andy

[Leeky]

Hummmm, if its anything like the Gen 6 GT it should continually push from 3000 up to the red without any sluggishness.

Sorry but I think that you have a problem somewhere.

I never owned a gen 5, maybe there is a difference between the engine on the 5th and the 6th but to my knowledge there isnt.

Best is to give toyota a ring and ask them, someone there should know how the gen 5 accelerates.

Have you tried resetting the ECU? I dont know if this will help but the ECU controls the timing and if there has been a problem in the past the ECU may have compensated for it.

Worth a shot, only takes 15secs. :hokus-pokus:

[Fizz]

I'm totally with you on that one mate...

I am now on my 2nd 5th gen Celica GT and both the cars have a definate kick from 5k onwards and i aint got a clue why!

[Deejay]

I'm totally with you on that one mate...

I am now on my 2nd 5th gen Celica GT and both the cars have a definate kick from 5k onwards and i aint got a clue why!

The reason for the sudden kick in at 5100rpm is T-VIS (Toyota-Variable Induction System).

"The system's intake passages are divided in two and a valve is placed in one side. Then, depending on engine rpm speed, the valve is opened or closed, which changes intake efficiency and improves performance across the rpm range. At low-to-mid rpm, the valve is closed. This effectively narrows the intake passage, which increases the speed of the air flow. Greater air flow speed results in greater volumetric efficiency, which boosts torque output at low-to-mid revs considerably. At high rpm, the valve is open, which reduces resistance within the intake passage and allows full development of the high-rev power potential inherent in the 4-valve configuration" (Taken from http://www.toyotacelicaonline.com/celica1/TVIS.htm)

Put in English a big valve opens at a preset rpm and adds some well needed punch. I tried running my car with the valve permanenlty open and it isnt worth it the power drops off, basicaly means that it does work best exactly as it's designed to. Anway thats the reason for the 5100rpm boost on your 5 gen celica.

If the car is sluggish at 4000rpm upto 5100rpm you might want to check all the standard things such as fueling and ignition, it may even be as simple as a distributor cap. If you don't find the problem then have a word with a good garage and ask them to check it out (might need a tune up).

[Fizz]

Cheers for the well informed info there DeeJay...

much appreciated... We learn something new everyday.. lol

[Deejay]

Cheers for the well informed info there DeeJay...

much appreciated... We learn something new everyday.. lol

Why thank you I hope it's of some help LOL

[jimma]

Hummmm, if its anything like the Gen 6 GT it should continually push from 3000 up to the red without any sluggishness.

Sorry but I think that you have a problem somewhere.

I never owned a gen 5, maybe there is a difference between the engine on the 5th and the 6th but to my knowledge there isnt.

Best is to give toyota a ring and ask them, someone there should know how the gen 5 accelerates.

Have you tried resetting the ECU? I dont know if this will help but the ECU controls the timing and if there has been a problem in the past the ECU may have compensated for it.

Worth a shot, only takes 15secs. :hokus-pokus:

I have a couple of issues with engine/fuellig, How do you reset ECU or does Toyota have to do it?? Please forgive my non technicalness!

[Deejay]

You can reset the ECU by taking off the negative Battery lead for a few minutes, then reconnect it and it should reset itself after doing so start the car and let it idle for a while (make sure the engine is warmed up first).

You can also pull one of the fuses (i forget which one you'll have to play around a bit), this is a good idea as it stops your stereo and clock resetting too.

[Leeky]

You can reset the ECU by taking off the negative battery lead for a few minutes, then reconnect it and it should reset itself after doing so start the car and let it idle for a while (make sure the engine is warmed up first).

You can also pull one of the fuses (i forget which one you'll have to play around a bit), this is a good idea as it stops your stereo and clock resetting too.

Personally i wouldnt disconnect the Battery, i immobilised my car once doing that. Also if you leave the Battery alone you wont have to reprogram your radio stations & clock etc

Under the bonnet on the right side of the engine near your Battery is the ECU (EFI) fuse which is at the front of the black fuse box nearest the front of the car. Usually the 3rd fuse along, says on the underneath of the lid anyway. :D

Never get toyota to do anything unless is a really big technical job i say, they overcharge for everything. I only go to toyota for a new clutch or a cam belt change or something similar where you need a real expert (or at least a big dealer to take to court if something goes wrong)

[Deejay]

You can reset the ECU by taking off the negative battery lead for a few minutes, then reconnect it and it should reset itself after doing so start the car and let it idle for a while (make sure the engine is warmed up first).

You can also pull one of the fuses (i forget which one you'll have to play around a bit), this is a good idea as it stops your stereo and clock resetting too.

Personally i wouldnt disconnect the Battery, i immobilised my car once doing that. Also if you leave the Battery alone you wont have to reprogram your radio stations & clock etc

Under the bonnet on the right side of the engine near your Battery is the ECU (EFI) fuse which is at the front of the black fuse box nearest the front of the car. Usually the 3rd fuse along, says on the underneath of the lid anyway. :D

Never get toyota to do anything unless is a really big technical job i say, they overcharge for everything. I only go to toyota for a new clutch or a cam belt change or something similar where you need a real expert (or at least a big dealer to take to court if something goes wrong)

Well thanks for covering exactly what I said in pointless detail :P And yes if you have a programable alarm then you won't want to be disconnecting the battery.

[Leeky]

Sorry dude, i should really stay off the Special Brew in this heat.

[Deejay]

  Sorry dude, i should really stay off the Special Brew in this heat.

;) Yeah that special brew is a brain cell mass murderer, I stick to the carling premier when I can find it. Fair point about the alarm/immobiliser, something I forgot to add

[Gundy]

i have a similar problem with my gen 6!!!

it used to give a v-tec like jump in acceleration at around 5000rpm which was brilliant,but now its just steady delivery right up to the red line.i've posted this topic before but no remedy was found.

maybe i need to contact toyota myself ;)

[Gundy]

quick question for deejay!!

how do you adjust the variable induction,maybe mines just needs set correctly????????????

[Deejay]

quick question for deejay!!

how do you adjust the variable induction,maybe mines just needs set correctly????????????

:bookworm: To my knowledge I don't believe you can adjust the TVIS setting. The proiblem you may have is that many TVIS equiped cars have reliability problems. The T-VIS butterfly has been known to stick closed, and/or the vacuum operating the T-VIS butterfly can malfunction.

Wouldnt worry about it too much it is easily resolved but may need looking at by a mechanic.

[Gundy]

i presume the vacuum pipe which attaches to the induction pipe is part of the TVIS system????I was told to not bother connecting it to the induction pipe and just block it off!!It did make a bit of a difference but it didn't put it back to the way it was :(

would a drop of spray oil help the butterfly valve work if it is sticking slightly????or is this not a good idea?????

i phoned the nearest toyota dealers today,which are based in inverness,the guy wasn't very helpfull at all!!!he sez if it ain't broke don't fix it!!!obviously didn't believe me about the jump in power at 5100rpm.he also sez if its runnig fine(which it is)then there isn't a problem.basically he couldn't give me an answer!!he was as much good as a chocolate ashtray on a motorbike

the car definately isn't as fast as it was wen i first bought it,and i'm desperate to get it going properly again!!

i've changed the oil,oil filter,fuel filter,spark plugs,added an induction kit,and about to get a full system exhaust with de-cat,the only obvious parts i haven't replaced is the dizzy cap,rotor and spark leads, which are all on order!!so theirs not alot left that i can do myself.

sure as **** it'll be the last part which i replace

sods law

[novamuncher]

if im right, the vacuum pipe is the camshaft breather pipe (well, im sure it is on me gen 4, and im probably thinking of the wrong one lol).

i have the same with my own car, (except pull away is crap if you dont catch biting point within 2K revs).

the only other thing i can suggest to do, is to dismantle the housing and cleaning it up with some carb cleaner spray and see how she runs from there.

ht leads would probably help as would dizi cap and rotor arm ...want a laugh, the guy that had the car previous to me was only running on three cylinders...at some point it was fitted with a wrong rotor arm (or it wasnt fitted properly), which damaged 3 contacts and cut the 4th clean off.

maybe a shot or redex fuel injection treatment would help too

good luck and let me know how it goes

[Deejay]

The surge in power at 5100rpm is because of the T-VIS and is completly normal. What is it that has changed since you first got the car? I wouldnt go changing loads of parts to resolve the problem before you know what it is, that's just going to to cost you more money.

Don't bother removing the vacum pipe, I have already done it and noticed a drop off in power at peak range. Toyota engineered the tvis to help not hinder the cars performance.

That guy you spoke to cant know his :censor: from his elbow if he didnt know why a 5 gen celica gets a boost at 5100rpm. Check the condition of your dizzy cap and rotor Try resetting the ecu too. Also if you are upto it disassemble the tvis unit, then clean and lubricate it. Probible better to get a manual before attempting the latter

[Gundy]

cheers for the info novamuncher

i'll try it out!i've tried redex and slick 50!!with no difference!

probably the dizi cap n rotor arm's worn!(well,heres hoping its something simple like that :D )

i'll try lubricatin the butterfly valve just incase its sticking,not keen on dismantlin anything i'll leave that to the pro's!!

[novamuncher]

no worries - but ive had another thought as well, it might be worth taking it to a garage with a CO machine (used to measure exhaust fumes in mot's) and see if they need adjusting (aparently some cars need tweeking a bit to pass the emissions).

might be worth asking them to check your ignition amplifier make sure out its giving out what its supposed to be ??

[Gundy]

when i first got the car there was a surge of power at 5100rpm but now there isn't :(

it started surging less and less and now it doesn't do it at all!!!!

i was also told i've probably just worn the car in but that can't be right the car has only done 65000miles!!!!

[Deejay]

when i first got the car there was a surge of power at 5100rpm but now there isn't :(

it started surging less and less and now it doesn't do it at all!!!!

i was also told i've probably just worn the car in but that can't be right the car has only done 65000miles!!!!

If it's not giving you any extra power from 5100rpm anymore, then it is definetly the butter fly valve not opening, it must be seized or sticking. Take it to a garage and have them clean and lubricate it. It will be back to normal as soon as that's done