Rav Safety, No Recall

[rav man]

Just read the NCAP report on new 2006 RAV4 crash test. Can't say i'm very happy that the wiring loom was cut causing the airbags to fail. Toyota re tested with altered wiring and got 4 stars. More importantly they have altered the wiring on new cars. Unfortunately they are NOT recalling ones already produced. Just wanted to see if any other RAV owners were unhappy about this?.

[anchorman]

Just read the NCAP report on new 2006 RAV4 crash test. Can't say i'm very happy that the wiring loom was cut causing the airbags to fail. Toyota re tested with altered wiring and got 4 stars. More importantly they have altered the wiring on new cars. Unfortunately they are NOT recalling ones already produced. Just wanted to see if any other RAV owners were unhappy about this?.

The tests are done in very controlled conditions so like for like comparisons can be made. In reality accidents are rarely the same. However, if the airbags are potentially substandard I don't see how Toyota can refuse to modify if requested.

The report doesn't quantify "late" deployment. Were they too late to be at all effective or only late enough to reduce the effectiveness by so much? It's dissapointing that they have left it so unclear.

I will check my chassis No to see which version I have.

Thanks for the alert.

Regards

[Steve@Aberdeen]

Just read the NCAP report on new 2006 RAV4 crash test. Can't say i'm very happy that the wiring loom was cut causing the airbags to fail. Toyota re tested with altered wiring and got 4 stars. More importantly they have altered the wiring on new cars. Unfortunately they are NOT recalling ones already produced. Just wanted to see if any other RAV owners were unhappy about this?.

Can you post a link to where this report can be read. I recently looked at the NCAP tests on the 2006 Rav4 and they were all on USA models (which differ from the UK versions is significant ways - for example, different engines and one report stated no side airbags and that side curtain airbags were an option).

[sywy]

Is the test relatively recent? Surely they can't say that a 2006 RAV 4 has a NCAP rating of 4 stars when a good proportion already on the road are not? In a year or so's time, people buying s/h will automatically think that an early 2006 RAV 4 is NCAP rated with 4 stars, which would not be true!!

[anchorman]

Just read the NCAP report on new 2006 RAV4 crash test. Can't say i'm very happy that the wiring loom was cut causing the airbags to fail. Toyota re tested with altered wiring and got 4 stars. More importantly they have altered the wiring on new cars. Unfortunately they are NOT recalling ones already produced. Just wanted to see if any other RAV owners were unhappy about this?.

Can you post a link to where this report can be read. I recently looked at the NCAP tests on the 2006 Rav4 and they were all on USA models (which differ from the UK versions is significant ways - for example, different engines and one report stated no side airbags and that side curtain airbags were an option).

Try this;

http://www.euroncap.com/images/results/Sma...20Datasheet.pdf

I have just checked mine which was new in September and it falls into the earlier category, i.e. it does not meet NCAP 4 star.

I will be emailing Toyota. This really pisses me off because while I don't want a car with an unqualified deficiency, I don't want the main agent getting "a lad" to modify it either.

[rav man]

Just read the NCAP report on new 2006 RAV4 crash test. Can't say i'm very happy that the wiring loom was cut causing the airbags to fail. Toyota re tested with altered wiring and got 4 stars. More importantly they have altered the wiring on new cars. Unfortunately they are NOT recalling ones already produced. Just wanted to see if any other RAV owners were unhappy about this?.

Can you post a link to where this report can be read. I recently looked at the NCAP tests on the 2006 Rav4 and they were all on USA models (which differ from the UK versions is significant ways - for example, different engines and one report stated no side airbags and that side curtain airbags were an option).

Try this;

http://www.euroncap.com/images/results/Sma...20Datasheet.pdf

I have just checked mine which was new in September and it falls into the earlier category, i.e. it does not meet NCAP 4 star.

I will be emailing Toyota. This really pisses me off because while I don't want a car with an unqualified deficiency, I don't want the main agent getting "a lad" to modify it either.

*****************************************

I rang Toyota customer services who told me that the NCAP site was misleading, (for whoever asked for the link search NCAP on google and it comes up first hit). They said the car with the "LATE" airbag deployment (mine) is a 4 star car and then the re tested "modified" car, is a 5 star car. This is not what is stated on the NCAP website. I asked for a recall which i was told had aleady been decide upon and was not being done. I am apparently the first call from a customer complaining about this. I told him hopefully ther may be some more shortly which may cause Toyota to re consider. I have E mailed "What Car" who sucessfully championed a similar recall on the New Fiat Grande Punto (taking it from 4 to 5 stars). I have also E mailed "BBC's Watchdog programme" who featured a Volvo safety article this week.

TOYOTA CUSTOMER SERVICES 01737 367 600. I would like my vehicle altered making it safer for my family. Toyota cannot ignore this and if enough people ring and complain then they will have to do something. Toyota also sugested i may be able to get the alteration done by my dealer but at my own expense.

[anchorman]

*****************************************

I rang Toyota customer services who told me that the NCAP site was misleading, (for whoever asked for the link search NCAP on google and it comes up first hit). They said the car with the "LATE" airbag deployment (mine) is a 4 star car and then the re tested "modified" car, is a 5 star car. This is not what is stated on the NCAP website. I asked for a recall which i was told had aleady been decide upon and was not being done. I am apparently the first call from a customer complaining about this. I told him hopefully ther may be some more shortly which may cause Toyota to re consider. I have E mailed "What Car" who sucessfully championed a similar recall on the New Fiat Grande Punto (taking it from 4 to 5 stars). I have also E mailed "BBC's Watchdog programme" who featured a Volvo safety article this week.

TOYOTA CUSTOMER SERVICES 01737 367 600. I would like my vehicle altered making it safer for my family. Toyota cannot ignore this and if enough people ring and complain then they will have to do something. Toyota also sugested i may be able to get the alteration done by my dealer but at my own expense.

I have emailed the dealer and await a reply. I will let you know what they say.

Regards

[sywy]

Try this;

http://www.euroncap.com/images/results/Sma...20Datasheet.pdf

I have just checked mine which was new in September and it falls into the earlier category, i.e. it does not meet NCAP 4 star.

I will be emailing Toyota. This really pisses me off because while I don't want a car with an unqualified deficiency, I don't want the main agent getting "a lad" to modify it either.

Mines ...V906... (Registered Oct 2006)

So looks like mine is a later one??

[anchorman]

Try this;

http://www.euroncap.com/images/results/Sma...20Datasheet.pdf

I have just checked mine which was new in September and it falls into the earlier category, i.e. it does not meet NCAP 4 star.

I will be emailing Toyota. This really pisses me off because while I don't want a car with an unqualified deficiency, I don't want the main agent getting "a lad" to modify it either.

Mines ...V906... (Registered Oct 2006)

So looks like mine is a later one??

You need the last numbers of your chassis No starting with a 5 or a 6.

[rav man]

Try this;

http://www.euroncap.com/images/results/Sma...20Datasheet.pdf

I have just checked mine which was new in September and it falls into the earlier category, i.e. it does not meet NCAP 4 star.

I will be emailing Toyota. This really pisses me off because while I don't want a car with an unqualified deficiency, I don't want the main agent getting "a lad" to modify it either.

Mines ...V906... (Registered Oct 2006)

So looks like mine is a later one??

You need the last numbers of your chassis No starting with a 5 or a 6.

*************************************

Mine starts with a V4 so i'm definately in a duff one. E mailed Toyotas own web site with a review including this point but for some reason they dont seem to have posted it. Strange!.

[sywy]

I'm getting confused here, isn't V4 after V3, so OK? Or is that too logical!!

Mine is V906, so is after V306. Also, the '6' is hi-lited on the report, and mine has a '6' in that position. I ask again, is mine one of the 'good' ones? If it isn't then, with a 4 month old and a 5 yo, I will certainly be joining you in complaining to Toyota. Thanks.

[rav man]

I'm getting confused here, isn't V4 after V3, so OK? Or is that too logical!!

Mine is V906, so is after V306. Also, the '6' is hi-lited on the report, and mine has a '6' in that position. I ask again, is mine one of the 'good' ones? If it isn't then, with a 4 month old and a 5 yo, I will certainly be joining you in complaining to Toyota. Thanks.

**************************************

My car shows V4 in the middle of the chassis no. The NCAP website says V3 but it doesnt say if the numbers go up or down, there is also another chassis no, with V0 listed in the same box, it is unclear what these two chassis no,s relate to. My car registered March 06 must be on of the ones effeceted as from looking at crash test sites, the RAV crash test appears to have been carried out around July 06 (so mine was made before this). There are a few reports on this, i found them by searching Google (NCAP RAV4). This brought several motoring news articles about this. Some with the disturbing headline 'Fatal Flaws'. This of course will enhance the value no end if you ever want to sell your car.

[anchorman]

Try this;

http://www.euroncap.com/images/results/Sma...20Datasheet.pdf

I have just checked mine which was new in September and it falls into the earlier category, i.e. it does not meet NCAP 4 star.

I will be emailing Toyota. This really pisses me off because while I don't want a car with an unqualified deficiency, I don't want the main agent getting "a lad" to modify it either.

Mines ...V906... (Registered Oct 2006)

So looks like mine is a later one??

You need the last numbers of your chassis No starting with a 5 or a 6.

*************************************

Mine starts with a V4 so i'm definately in a duff one. E mailed Toyotas own web site with a review including this point but for some reason they dont seem to have posted it. Strange!.

rav man/sywy

I may have confused you, let me try and explain a bit more clearly.

I'm not sure where the V906 or V3 or V4 came from but I don't think they count.

To know if your vehicle is effected you have to look at the chassis No.

The relevent number should be in the front of your service book.

The 5 and the 6 in the middle of the number identifies the plant where they were manufatured. I am going to reproduce the 2 chassis numbers that the MODIFIED vehicles START from.

JTMBA31V00 5 012623

JTMBA31V30 6 022220

You can see that I've seperated the 5 and the 6.

Now look at the 6 didgit number that follows. This represents the number of the actual car of that type produced at that plant.

So if your car was built in plant 5 and the number is lower than 12,623 then yours is pre mod. If it was built in plant 6 and the number is lower than 22,220 it is also pre mod.

Mine was new in September and was built in plant 6 but it is about 7000 cars too early for the mod so don't be surprised if yours is too.

You have to remember that they have been made in Japan, then stored for dispatch, then sat on a ship for some time, then stood at the UK import centre long before you got it. They could be quite old (comparatively).

I hope you are lucky.

Regards

anchorman

[sywy]

Thanks for the detailed explanation anchorman. (I'm easily confused :) )

It looks like mine is OK, as mine is from plant 6 and the last 6 digits are 03xxxx

[rav man]

Thanks for the detailed explanation anchorman. (I'm easily confused :) )

It looks like mine is OK, as mine is from plant 6 and the last 6 digits are 03xxxx

***************************

Anchorman,

Cheers for the explanation. Unfortunately mine still appears to be an earlier one as it's 06 00*** . I called my Toyota dealer about having a modification and they didn't know anything about it. They checked and there haven't been any bulletins about this. Spoke to Toyota customer relations again who said they would look into it and get back to me. They kept reasuring me mine was to specification and no recall had been issued. I did explain that is what i wanted and was not prepared to compromise my familys safety.

ANYONE ELSE With a new RAV who feels strongly about this then ring TOYOTA customer relations on 01737 367 600. Or send Toyota a review on there website under owners reviews.

[anchorman]

Thanks for the detailed explanation anchorman. (I'm easily confused :) )

It looks like mine is OK, as mine is from plant 6 and the last 6 digits are 03xxxx

***************************

Anchorman,

Cheers for the explanation. Unfortunately mine still appears to be an earlier one as it's 06 00*** . I called my Toyota dealer about having a modification and they didn't know anything about it. They checked and there haven't been any bulletins about this. Spoke to Toyota customer relations again who said they would look into it and get back to me. They kept reasuring me mine was to specification and no recall had been issued. I did explain that is what i wanted and was not prepared to compromise my familys safety.

ANYONE ELSE With a new RAV who feels strongly about this then ring TOYOTA customer relations on 01737 367 600. Or send Toyota a review on there website under owners reviews.

Hi rav man

I spoke to Toyota today and they said that there is an official statement regarding this subject. They said they will email it to me but not received it yet.

I will let you know when it eventually appears.

regards

anchorman

[rav man]

Thanks for the detailed explanation anchorman. (I'm easily confused :) )

It looks like mine is OK, as mine is from plant 6 and the last 6 digits are 03xxxx

***************************

Anchorman,

Cheers for the explanation. Unfortunately mine still appears to be an earlier one as it's 06 00*** . I called my Toyota dealer about having a modification and they didn't know anything about it. They checked and there haven't been any bulletins about this. Spoke to Toyota customer relations again who said they would look into it and get back to me. They kept reasuring me mine was to specification and no recall had been issued. I did explain that is what i wanted and was not prepared to compromise my familys safety.

ANYONE ELSE With a new RAV who feels strongly about this then ring TOYOTA customer relations on 01737 367 600. Or send Toyota a review on there website under owners reviews.

Hi rav man

I spoke to Toyota today and they said that there is an official statement regarding this subject. They said they will email it to me but not received it yet.

I will let you know when it eventually appears.

regards

anchorman

************************

Cheers Anchorman, i would appreciate that, i have contacted several other consumer groups to try and exert a bit of pressure but dont know if it will do any good. Toyota were supposed to be getting back to me yesterday but no reply as yet. I think they will try and say everthings ok. I notice they have issued a recall on earlier ravs for air bag faults so there appears to be no reason why they couldnt do it for ours.

[anchorman]

I will let you know when it eventually appears.

regards

anchorman

************************

Cheers Anchorman, i would appreciate that, i have contacted several other consumer groups to try and exert a bit of pressure but dont know if it will do any good. Toyota were supposed to be getting back to me yesterday but no reply as yet. I think they will try and say everthings ok. I notice they have issued a recall on earlier ravs for air bag faults so there appears to be no reason why they couldnt do it for ours.

HI

I got the reply which was basically the same as yours. I will now "counter respond".

Speak to you soon!

[rav man]

I will let you know when it eventually appears.

regards

anchorman

************************

Cheers Anchorman, i would appreciate that, i have contacted several other consumer groups to try and exert a bit of pressure but dont know if it will do any good. Toyota were supposed to be getting back to me yesterday but no reply as yet. I think they will try and say everthings ok. I notice they have issued a recall on earlier ravs for air bag faults so there appears to be no reason why they couldnt do it for ours.

HI

I got the reply which was basically the same as yours. I will now "counter respond".

Speak to you soon!

******************************

Written reply received from Toyota. Quite lengthy but general gist is. Rav4 scored 4 stars in NCAP test before modifications. Toyota has made modifications but these have not affected its star rating. They then go on to state that other similar vehicles also have a 4 star rating.(X trail, CRV, Discovery). Therefore there isnt a problem.

Toyota appear happy with the 4 star result which i am not. When the new freelander and CRV are tested i would be interested to see these results.

[spwolfx]

Hmph, so wiring not an issue? Interesting.

It is the best tested small suv though... Q7 and Discovery got 4 stars, with worse point rating, despite being much bigger cars.

Rav4 is only 1 point off 5 star rating.

Main problem with Rav4 and small SUV's in general, is that seating position is upright and your knees end up being way too close to the centre console. Fact that rav4 has knee airbags rated it better than Q7 or Disco. Of all SUV's, X5 is only one that got better rating than Rav4.

[vilarav]

Hi all,

I write from Barcelona-Spain to support you with this airbag problem.

I bought my RAV 4 by june 2006 in Spain and I know that is affected because the VIN is 5 011XXX.

I was very surprised by the poor NCAP results. 9 airbags and only 4 stars ... :(

But the question is that I wrote TOYOTA Spain in September and I don't have any reply at the moment, so I also wrote to the EuroNCAP, and in a few days I received the reply message: 4 STAR (32 point, only 1 point of 5 stars) was rated for the MODIFIED version, but that the NOT MODIFIED also was rated with 4 STARS (but I don't know how many points).

Knowing that the 4 STARS begins with 25 points and that only front impact test was affected, you can do a simple calculation:

25-12(side impact test)-2(seatbelt reminder)= 7 point

This means that only with 7 points in front test and good results in side test an seatbelt reminder you can get 4 STARS. 7 points also means that any front crash is very dangerous for the driver and front passenger.

I would like to force TOYOTA to do a recall but is very complicated here in Spain to get support from others RAV4 customers. Any additional info I get I will post here.

Good luck.

[anchorman]

Hi all,

I write from Barcelona-Spain to support you with this airbag problem.

I bought my RAV 4 by june 2006 in Spain and I know that is affected because the VIN is 5 011XXX.

I was very surprised by the poor NCAP results. 9 airbags and only 4 stars ... :(

But the question is that I wrote TOYOTA Spain in September and I don't have any reply at the moment, so I also wrote to the EuroNCAP, and in a few days I received the reply message: 4 STAR (32 point, only 1 point of 5 stars) was rated for the MODIFIED version, but that the NOT MODIFIED also was rated with 4 STARS (but I don't know how many points).

Knowing that the 4 STARS begins with 25 points and that only front impact test was affected, you can do a simple calculation:

25-12(side impact test)-2(seatbelt reminder)= 7 point

This means that only with 7 points in front test and good results in side test an seatbelt reminder you can get 4 STARS. 7 points also means that any front crash is very dangerous for the driver and front passenger.

I would like to force TOYOTA to do a recall but is very complicated here in Spain to get support from others RAV4 customers. Any additional info I get I will post here.

Good luck.

This is good information but the bottom line is that Toyota don't care, they have made a policy decision that it is tuff luck for pre modified vehicle owners. They refuse to quantify the results despite your concerns about a frontal impact. A few euro profit is more important than the welfare of loyal owners.

Regards

[rav man]

Toyota recalled the 4.2 shape regarding airbag non deployment but won't recall the 4.3. Considering the expense of the new model i personally feel extremely let down by their attitude especially with Toyotas own website having a safety section on the Rav page. No mention of this issue or even the Four star rating. Toyota need some pressure putting on them and i for one am very grateful to anyone who has contacted Toyota and complained about this issue. Toyota are quoting the 4 star rating comparing them against other manufacturers old models.

[anchorman]

Toyota recalled the 4.2 shape regarding airbag non deployment but won't recall the 4.3. Considering the expense of the new model i personally feel extremely let down by their attitude especially with Toyotas own website having a safety section on the Rav page. No mention of this issue or even the Four star rating. Toyota need some pressure putting on them and i for one am very grateful to anyone who has contacted Toyota and complained about this issue. Toyota are quoting the 4 star rating comparing them against other manufacturers old models.

The information that vilarav has put forward is quite thought provoking. When Toyota Customer Services wrote to me regarding the problem they said that the pre-mod airbags were only milliseconds slower than the modded ones. The point is that the whole process of airbag deployment takes only milliseconds but how do you quantify what is a risk? NCAP were obviously not happy and Toyota were concerned enough to effect a production change so something wasn't right.

If we post a new thread polling owners about their chassis number and can rally enough support we could collectively put a lot more pressure on them. If we all went to their UK premises and staged a demonstration and invited the media along they might stick to their guns but it won't do their reputation much good. What do you say? Shall we see what kind of response it generates? Is there any moderators reading this who can say what the position is as far as using the forum as a medium for this kind of action?

One further point. I believe that we should make sure that our friend vilarav should be represented by any action we take.

Your thoughts please.

anchorman

[rav man]

I agree more pressure needs putting on Toyota, 823 people have read this thread so far. If everyone contacts Toyota and complains or even just lets other owners know this will be a start. I was speaking to a T180 owner the other day who was blissfully unaware of any problem. If god forbid someone were to be seriously or worse fatally injured and the airbag deployment became an issue then Toyota would need some good lawyers. They know about the problem but are refusing to do anything about it. I have contacted several consumer TV programmes and car magazines asking for support. No response. I reiterate my earlier points though. Its no good just me doing it. Land Rover owners got their head gasket problems on the TV, so why cant we.

Just a thought , under the 'Freedom of information act' Toyota could be asked how many affected models have been sold both UK and world wide. This would then give an insight into the scale of the situation. I would be interested to know if the same issue affects the American market and indeed if they got the changes to the later vehicles.