T4/tspirit/t180

[Stuman]

Hello all - my first post!

I'm in the process of choosing a new company car. I'm currently running an Avensis 2004 T4 D4D hatchback, which has been fine, with no problems, so I'm going for another one (also diesel).

I'm wondering whether the TSpirit (or even the T180) is worth the extra money over the T4 (it will cost me more in my monthly contribution towards the car). In particular, I'm wondering whether leather seats have any particular advantages/disadvantages, as these seem to be the main substantial change from the T4.

Any views much appreciated.

Thanks

[uumode]

Main difference is full Sat Nav with large display, (minus traffic avoidance I think)

Leather seats as you point out

Electrically adjustable seats with extra seat cushion tilt

Bigger 17" alloy wheels? They changed the spec on the facelift model, and T4 was relegated to 16"

heated seats

and built in rear sunblind

*based on my knowledge of the pre-facelift

As to the leather, the ones I've seen have 'crumpled' bum areas, the leather gets stretched a bit in that area, where people sit.

- not a real issue as it's a company car.

Usually with leather in general, they can be a bit slippery when cornering, a bit cold initially in winter and a bit hot in summer... not major issues.

Leather can crack up with age and needs leather nourishment, but again, it's a company car so shouldn't happen in the time span you have the car.

[Stuman]

Thanks uumode.

Reading your response, I suppose the obvious question is: are there any advantages to the leather interior, as opposed to fabric (as you mention some of the disadvantages)?

Thanks

[uumode]

Advantages of leather, if you have spills in the car, melted chocolate etc, it's much easier to wipe off than on standard fabric, and doesn't stain into the fabric.

Leather is also easier to clean in general, with cloth you need a bit more elbow grease and shampooing.

It also has a higher perceived cost value as everyone knows and association with luxury.

I have leather in my Mercedes, fabric in my T4.

Forgot to mention in the T-Spirit from memory, you get adjustable lumbar support which makes the seat more comfortable for me.

[Stuman]

Thanks - will probably go with the T Spirit this time.

[bristolmotorspeedway]

Thanks - will probably go with the T Spirit this time.

Don't forget to check out the T180 :) . More power, alcantara & part-leather rather than leather seats....you may find that you prefer the alcantara to the full leather...and that engine!

Only have a T3-X myself (privately owned), but it would be the T180 that would tempt me to part with more pennies rather than the T-Spirit.

[Shoto]

Ditto to what Bristol says. I tried both the T-Spirit and the T180 when I changed my company car (from a BMW 320d SE Tourer) in early October. I've had the T180 for almost 10,000 miles now and I'm very impressed. As Bristol says, the extra umph is definitely worth the extra cash.

As the motor has loosened up I've felt more benefit from the strong torque available from this engine.

The seats are very comfortable (electric adjustment - including the lumbar support) and the car is still a very relaxing place to cruise in when I'm doing long distances on the motorway. This car gets a big vote from me, and that's after running cars such as Audi A4s, VW Passat, BMW & Volvo estates.

Why not test drive both the T-Spirit and the T180 and see what you think? My local dealer organised drives in both cars and although he said nothing before I made my decision, he later told me that he knew which model I would choose.

Good luck, happy and safe motoring.

[Stuman]

Thanks for all the comments.

I tend to drive quite sedately (keeping within the speed limit and accelerating rapidly only when overtaking or on the exit to a particularly enjoyable roundabout or bend!), so was thinking that the 35bhp improvement from my current 2004 Avensis 2.0 D4D to the 2.2 150 D4D would be more than enough. I have tried a T4 2.2 150 D4D and it seemed rapid enough to me. Is the T180 that much better (does it really feel like 400Nm of torque compared to 310Nm)? The 150 D4D is also slightly better on fuel - almost as good as my current car, if the figures are to be believed (more concerned about CO2 impact than price of fuel). So it seems like a good compromise.

The leather interior of the TSpirit/T180 appealed as it is a bit of luxury, and the kids probably won't be able to make it so dirty! Hence the choice between the two models.

I agree that if I was a private buyer, then it would definitely be the T180, as the price difference is only around £500 I believe, which would make the T180 a bargain compared to the T Spirit. Insurance would then come into play though (T180 a couple of groups higher?).

Of course the red 'T180' Badge looks awfully cool.......

Must make a final decision this week, so off for a think.

[chrisstyles]

The T180 is very quick when accelerating, you get all sorts of funny looks as you stamp on the accelerator and blast past others in a blink of an eye.

You have to test drive one! Also as it's a toyota the insurance isn't that expensive for the car that it is, and if you have the ability to haggle they will virtually give you the car for the same price as the T-Spirit, I managed over 4K off the list price in the end.

[Shoto]

Is the T180 that much better (does it really feel like 400Nm of torque compared to 310Nm)?

Having tried both, the answer is easy................

Oh yes!

As Chris has said, there are good deals to be had with Toyota. My T180 is a company car on a contract hire deal and it worked out as a lower cost per month than the following:

140bhp VW Passat TDi Sport with no extras

Honda Accord CDTi Sport with no extras

Alfa 157 1.9 Diesel with no extras

Enjoy the choosing process and we look forward to hearing what you have decided.

[Stuman]

Went for the T Spirit in the end - enough performance for me, having tried one! Delivery June (when the contract ends on mine).

Thanks for all the help, chaps.

[bristolmotorspeedway]

Went for the T Spirit in the end - enough performance for me, having tried one! Delivery June (when the contract ends on mine).

Thanks for all the help, chaps.

The 2.2 150 does go quite well, mine has definitely felt far more powerful and eager to rev as the miles have built (now 7000+). The odd hot-hatch has had a nasty surprise when the bland repmobile has blown him away :D . 'Tis truly amazing how, if I am waiting at a set of lights, nearly every smaller car feels the need to pull up alongside, presumably on the assumption that Japanese+big+D4-D means slower than a snail.

Anyway, congrats on choosing your new motor and happy motoring (even if it is a long wait!)

[Stuman]

For anyone interested, found a graph of all three Avensis diesel engine outputs together here:-

http://66.249.93.104/translate_c?hl=en&amp...ficial%26sa%3DG

It looks like the 150hp version has has the torque peak lopped off! If only I'd seen this graph before (the ones in the brochures use a variety of scales which are a bit hard to compare properly).

Still, too late to change my mind now - like I say, the 150 I tried felt quick enough on the road, but that was compared to my 2.0 D4D. Hopefully the mid range (which is what I really look for in an engine) is enough.

[bristolmotorspeedway]

For anyone interested, found a graph of all three Avensis diesel engine outputs together here:-

http://66.249.93.104/translate_c?hl=en&amp...ficial%26sa%3DG

It looks like the 150hp version has has the torque peak lopped off! If only I'd seen this graph before (the ones in the brochures use a variety of scales which are a bit hard to compare properly).

Still, too late to change my mind now - like I say, the 150 I tried felt quick enough on the road, but that was compared to my 2.0 D4D. Hopefully the mid range (which is what I really look for in an engine) is enough.

Interesting! I'm sure the 150 will do, it's fairly pokey - just not T180 quick! One thing about the graph, it seems to indicate that the 150 hits peak torque (320nm) from 16/1700rpm to 3200rpm, whereas previously I had read 2000-3200rpm. That exagerates the 'lopped off' effect of the torque curve, but also shows an improvement on the torque figures Toyota are quoting, so may be no bad thing!

[Stuman]

Yes - I must say that the 2.0 D4D is a good engine when in the meat of it's power band, but very breathless below 1800-2000 rpm (can catch you out e.g. if you try to trickle away from a give way sign in second gear) and the power tails off very quickly as it approaches/above about 4000 revs. It's mostly in the 1500-2000rpm band that I'm hoping for an improvement, although if it also revs slightly better, that would be a bonus. :D

Noticed that the new 2.0 D4D is not on the graph - would be nice to see how that compares.

[eamo79]

I've got the new model estate 2.2 T4 174 bhp all full leather large screen sat nav heated electric seats. No T180 in this model and suppose mine would be what the t180 was bit mine has full leather seats. I've also had it remapped to 230 bhp. Love leaving the M sport BMW and Audis behind in dust. They don't see me coming. 

[Stivino]

25 minutes ago, eamo79 said:

I've got the new model estate 2.2 T4 174 bhp all full leather large screen sat nav heated electric seats. No T180 in this model and suppose mine would be what the t180 was bit mine has full leather seats. I've also had it remapped to 230 bhp. Love leaving the M sport BMW and Audis behind in dust. They don't see me coming. 

Got any pictures?