Euro Ncap Test

[AndyG]

Hi

Here is the Euro NCAP report for the Auris: Link.

Looks like an excellent result.

Andy

[captainoats]

Hi

Here is the Euro NCAP report for the Auris: Link.

Looks like an excellent result.

Andy

Yes I read about that the other day and was very impressive. Sets the standard for other makes.

[rav man]

Top result for the Auris, I only wish the Rav performed so well. I like shape and the dash design.

[Toyota PR]

RAV4 missed getting a 5-star rating by less than one whole point - much discussion with EuroNCAP about that. Even so, still the best SUV ever tested.

[rav man]

Yes but this isnt the issue is it. Toyota had to modify the Rav as the airbag wiring was cut during the NCAP testing. Toyota are not going to recall the cars already sold before the modification. Those owners aren't so thrilled. Nice to know how much were thought of ?.

[Kev Mc]

That's a tremendous set of results, a big factor in deciding to buy a Yaris was the fact that it got a 4* Euro NCap rating so a set of results like that can only help. Good work Mr T

[Toyota PR]

Yes but this isnt the issue is it. Toyota had to modify the Rav as the airbag wiring was cut during the NCAP testing. Toyota are not going to recall the cars already sold before the modification. Those owners aren't so thrilled. Nice to know how much were thought of ?.

Not quite true. In the initial test the RAV4 scored enough points to get a good 4 star result. We thought it could do better. Yes, sensor wire was damaged – it was a heavy frontal impact after all, but it was not the only one sending a signal and did not influence the working of the safety systems or result.

After long debate with NCAP we made a change - not easy once a car is in production and hard to justify when our research, based on thousands of real accidents, suggests it does not need to change - and tested it again. It scored almost enough for 5 stars.

So the facts are, the original car scored 4 stars - better than most SUVs, most cars in fact. There is no need to recall any of them; unless you think all cars with less than 5 stars should be recalled.

[vilarav]

Yes but this isnt the issue is it. Toyota had to modify the Rav as the airbag wiring was cut during the NCAP testing. Toyota are not going to recall the cars already sold before the modification. Those owners aren't so thrilled. Nice to know how much were thought of ?.

Not quite true. In the initial test the RAV4 scored enough points to get a good 4 star result. We thought it could do better. Yes, sensor wire was damaged – it was a heavy frontal impact after all, but it was not the only one sending a signal and did not influence the working of the safety systems or result.

After long debate with NCAP we made a change - not easy once a car is in production and hard to justify when our research, based on thousands of real accidents, suggests it does not need to change - and tested it again. It scored almost enough for 5 stars.

So the facts are, the original car scored 4 stars - better than most SUVs, most cars in fact. There is no need to recall any of them; unless you think all cars with less than 5 stars should be recalled.

With the modifications RAV4 was rated with 32 points (with 33 it would be 5 STARS). How many points with the pre-modified car?

But in my opinion, Toyota has recognised an airbag problem because Toyota has modified the airbags (or the airbags controller) for the new production cars, so I would like to modify my car. I have paid the same money for that car that other people that has bought later.

I am a good customer, I've paid with not false money, and very confident with Toyota and the compensation I receive from Toyota is to drive a car with not optimised airbags deployment ...

And... the knees airbags... what do you think about? Other cars without this airbags gets better performance in the knees, legs... But the knees airbags has proved to be very useful in other Toyota/Lexus cars like Auris, Corolla, Lexus IS/GS... what has happened with the RAV4?

[rav man]

Mr T. PR

The facts are unless i'm mistaken thet you have altered the wiring. This car is now safer. I want mine to be safer. (and so do other owners) from their responses to reading these threads.

You recalled the last Rav. It's too difficult or is it down to money. If 4 stars are so great why not advertise the fact on the RAV page of your website? R.

[Toyota PR]

Retro fitting the changes to older cars would be a very big job and we judge it unnecessary to take a 4 star car and make it... a 4 star car.

I am sure you are a good customer and we value you, but this situation is no different to the many times and ways a car is modified throughout its life. Toyota is built on a philosophy of continuous improvement.. It is not normal – or expected –to have older cars upgraded.

This would be different if there was a problem, but there is no problem or fault to cure. Toyota has a very large focus on safety and is famous for offering the best customer service around the world. If there was any indication that the early RAV4s would in any way damage that reputation or put customers at risk then there would have been a change, but this is not the case.

All in all Toyota has been put in a very difficult position by comments made by EuroNCAP. They said at the time of the results being published that Toyota should recall the cars. This is easy to say for a non-commercial organisation that does not even pay for the testing it promotes (manufacturers pay).

We do not understand why they said this. Indeed, senior members of EuroNCAP have gone on record in other countries (Sweden I think) saying they did not believe Toyota should take any action so there has been mixed messages from EuroNCAP. We are working with EuroNCAP to try to understand and resolve the issue.

Irrespective of all that, the situation is as I said earlier; if you argue that the early RAV4 should be recalled then you are arguing that all cars scoring lower than 4 stars are somehow defective and should be recalled. EuroNCAP is not asking for this.

As for knee air bags we have to balance the benefits with cost and customer demand. We strive to be a leader in safety and offer many world firsts or have cars which are the first in a particular segment of the market to offer a safety feature (i.e. knee airbags) but these have a cost which if fitted to all models would make the cars too expensive for the market. The safest car in the world is no good to anyone if no one buys it because it is too expensive. We need to balance fitment with customer demand (and so willingness to pay) and in the small SUV segment the RAV4 is already the safest model available. .

[rav man]

Yes i am a good cutomer, several previous Toyotas, but i don't feel that valued at the moment.

If Toyota are to ignore the NCAP recomendations then i see little point in having their cars tested by this organisation and find it slightly dubious that when they have a sucess i.e the 5 star Auris, are only to happy to use NCAP in their publicity. If NCAP publish a withdrawl of their recomendations I would take some comfort , but they haven't.

I also think you have possibly missunderstood the point Vilarav makes regarding the knee bags. They didn't protect the knees sufficiently. According to NCAP, I believe this is the point he makes.

Out of interest then as it seems a cost issue, how much is it to modify a pre modification model and how many points did it score?.

[Red Yaris 54]

This discussion would have been better on the RAV forums

NOT hijacking the AURIS forum

AURIS has obtained record NCAP ratings for its class......................evidence enough that Toyota progressively strive to improve safety as the range of cars develop.

That must be good for ALL road users

[rav man]

I quite agree and apologise for "hi jacking your forum". Funnily enough Toyota didnt respond when this was posted on the RAV forum, but chose to respond on this one . Good for "all" road users. Thats what i'm trying to achieve.

[Toyota PR]

Sorry - did not mean to hijack anything. I am happy to continue by PM, but let me just answer the outstanding points. I only saw this because I was looking in the Auris forum - I don't have time to read the whole site so don't read anything more into it.

Toyota do not ignore EuroNCAP - but we do not necessarily agree completely with their testing methods and conclusions as being the best or most representative of real world accidents. Toyota conducts hundreds of crash test per year - EuroeNCAP generally evaluate one of each car once. Toyota believes it best to discuss these differences in private with EuroNCAP.

I'm sorry I do not know the exact score - it is never published - only that we missed five stars by less than one whole point. I know this because one of the engineers involved told me as a way to show his disappointment.

On knee airbags it is difficult to compare results across different types of car since they are designed differently (height, weight, etc). You only have to consider the range of results for all the cars tested to see what I mean. All you can take from the results is a broad relative measure (i.e. 4 stars, 5 stars).

Finally – I can’t see any reference to EuroNCAp on either Auris or RAV4 sections of the web site. I think the safety section on RAV4 is there mainly to draw attention to the stability control systems.

[spwolfx]

Yes but this isnt the issue is it. Toyota had to modify the Rav as the airbag wiring was cut during the NCAP testing. Toyota are not going to recall the cars already sold before the modification. Those owners aren't so thrilled. Nice to know how much were thought of ?.

Not quite true. In the initial test the RAV4 scored enough points to get a good 4 star result. We thought it could do better. Yes, sensor wire was damaged – it was a heavy frontal impact after all, but it was not the only one sending a signal and did not influence the working of the safety systems or result.

if it isnt the only one sending the signal, then there is no problem is there? I understand what you mean now, since from their information it looked as if airbags would not activate.

[vvtiman]

Video from crash test is here>

;)

[normal bloke]

I take it the Auris has the silly bleep (carried forward from late corollas etc) and flashing light if the passenger has their belt off for a few seconds while travelling very safely and slowly miles from anywhere, bad rule on the part of NCAP, some of these rules needed to get 5 stars are really nonsense, and the stars do not take account of passive safety, ie how easy the car makes it to avoid an accident in the first place, a company the size of toyota should point out to ncap the errors of their ways instead of just bowing down

[Red Yaris 54]

I take it the Auris has the silly bleep (carried forward from late corollas etc) and flashing light if the passenger has their belt off for a few seconds while travelling very safely and slowly miles from anywhere, bad rule on the part of NCAP, some of these rules needed to get 5 stars are really nonsense, and the stars do not take account of passive safety, ie how easy the car makes it to avoid an accident in the first place, a company the size of toyota should point out to ncap the errors of their ways instead of just bowing down

The NCAP regulations are there to improve safety for ALL vehicles...............not just Toyotas.

The passenger seat belt warning bleeper would not be necessary if everyone wore their seatbelts....................unfortunately some people really do need reminding to wear them.

It is of course illegal not to wear the belt.

[normal bloke]

the bleep is total nonsense when driving at 2 mph in an empty field with no possible obstructions for miles

and like automatic headlights would be a pain in the bum if trying to avoid being noticed by some local thugs