Rav T180 Excessive Diesel Knock And Stalling Problems

[anchorman]

Since my ECU update my Rav has had two very serious electrical problems, once when I was driving with the cruise control set to 30 it accelerated and I had to brake to stop it.

The second dangerous electrical fault was while my wife was driving, the Rav veered to the near side violently twice within a few seconds for no reason, no driver input to brakes, steering or throttle at the time. She was driving on a straight road at around 40mph when it happened.

With the ECU update this car is very dangerous.

Hi mate.

The steering has an input from the Stability Control ECU that will apply a resisting force to what would be attempting to turn the car into a skid rather than out. It sounds like it is applying this force without any input and I would phone Toyota to have it immediately taken off the road. If it happens on a 2 lane road with a car coming the other way (or any stationary object come to that) you could be killed.

Don't take any chances and get the recovery vehicle back.

Cheers

[Sussex_Paul]

Bizz,

I'm sorry to read about the awful problems you've had with your car.

It sounds like a huge danger to yourself/wife and other road users.

Just imagine the ramifications of this ECU fault causing a fatal road accident. Anyone injured or worse as a a result would have no problems whatsoever with legal recourse to persue Toyota and/or it's negligent dealer in court for damages if when notified of this problem, they do not immediately take your car off the road and promise to fix the problem once and for all.

Imagine the outcry on a programme like Watchdog if other road users were made aware of a potentially deadly ECU fault in a 1500kg+ 4x4 that could cause it to suddenly swerve into oncoming traffic or pedestrians or without warning increase it's speed and ram into the vehicle infront!!!!!!

It doesn't bear thinking about.

TOYOTA - you MUST get this problem sorted ASAP!

[anchorman]

I hope Bizz's vehicle was recovered IMMEDIATELY pending investigation and a replacement vehicle supplied.

I am making some assumptions (for which I apologise to Toyota if I am wrong) but if there was no physical reason for the vehicle veering off line then it would seem that the steering motor is getting stray input signals from the VSC which should only apply when the vehicle is actually encountering a skid.

I don't want to cause panic but let me just say that if my car had received this software mod for stalling (and I know there are a few of you) I would be very nervous about this problem until it is fully understood. I personally would rather have the steering completely disconnected from the VSC (probably another software mod) until that time.

All RAV 4.3 have electric steering but only XT4 and above have VSC and so far this idling/stalling only seems to effect T180's unless anybody knows any different.

Please keep us informed.

Cheers

[Bizz]

The vehicle has been at the dealer since the RAC towed away when the keyless entry packed up.

I have been banging my head against a brick wall getting anywhere with Toyota and my dealer, now I am am seeking legal advice due to the seriousness of the problems which seem to have been caused by what looks like a seriously flawed software update.

My wife was so scared when it happened that she has now refused to drive it again and is now very nervous when driving any car.

All I get from the dealer is "There are no error codes when we plug it in", now it is not just mine having problems they might start to believe me.

I could go on forever but I am so angry I will leave it for now.

[chatman]

The vehicle has been at the dealer since the RAC towed away when the keyless entry packed up.

I have been banging my head against a brick wall getting anywhere with Toyota and my dealer, now I am am seeking legal advice due to the seriousness of the problems which seem to have been caused by what looks like a seriously flawed software update.

My wife was so scared when it happened that she has now refused to drive it again and is now very nervous when driving any car.

All I get from the dealer is "There are no error codes when we plug it in", now it is not just mine having problems they might start to believe me.

I could go on forever but I am so angry I will leave it for now.

Why not give the dealer a copy of this forum topic to prove to them that yours is not the only one having problems...also send a copy to Toyota PR and Customer relations. We know Toyota PR read these forums or monitor them...

Feel for you as buying a car costing this much, only then to have it throw a wobbly is not on.. :angry:

I would reject it under the grounds of what they have done has in fact made the car dangerous and un-road worthy for it's purpose...

[chillyjeff]

Following the complete failure of my keyless entry system on Friday, I phoned the dealer and I am taking the car in tomorrow for them to look at it. I have made them fully aware of the forum comments from other T180 owners.

However, I tried the door handle on my car yesterday and it unlocked normally. The keyless entry problem has disappeard and both key fobs work as normal. It also starts normally.

I have not experienced any of the other electrical gremlins reported by Bizz.

[sywy]

I was just going to say that only Bizz has experience the 'serious' problems, AFAICS.

Actually, reading back through the thread, how many people have had the update? I can only see 3 - Bizz, chillijeff and myself.

So pointing Toyota at this thread may prove a bit pointless. Are we sure that Bizz's problems are definitely related to the ECU upgrade?

Saying that, I hope you get the situation sorted to your satisfaction, Bizz. Whether that means a proper fix, or rejecting the car completely.

I appreciate the warning, and will be driving my car with both hands firmly gripped on the steering wheel!!

[anchorman]

The vehicle has been at the dealer since the RAC towed away when the keyless entry packed up.

I have been banging my head against a brick wall getting anywhere with Toyota and my dealer, now I am am seeking legal advice due to the seriousness of the problems which seem to have been caused by what looks like a seriously flawed software update.

My wife was so scared when it happened that she has now refused to drive it again and is now very nervous when driving any car.

All I get from the dealer is "There are no error codes when we plug it in", now it is not just mine having problems they might start to believe me.

I could go on forever but I am so angry I will leave it for now.

Now you have touched upon one of my biggest gripes with dealers. While there are no doubt still some good technicians with a lot of experience and a very analytical mind, there a very many that are only able to follow procedures laid out during training courses and can't or won't apply any logic to a problem. You will now find yourself waiting for Toyota to tell them what to do with it.

In the meantime they wind you up by telling you there is nothing stored in the fault memory. Well you would know that because you didn't get the engine fault light. It really does hack you off and I can understand exactly how you feel. They obviously don't know that the computer can only store recognised faults - ones that have been programed into the ECU. It won't recognise a fault from a new program unless it has been told to expect it.

You will debate the matter for ever and a day until you officially reject the car. You have to go to see the Dealer Manager with a letter telling him that you formally reject the car on the grounds of the serious nature of the fault and that you have absolutely no confidence to drive it again. However upset and annoyed you are, don't raise hell - remember that you are dealing humans but be firm and do not accept any compromise. To be honest, under the same circumsatnces my wife wouldn't drive it again and nor would I want her to. For a start I would want them to drive it on a daily basis for at least a month before I was anywhere near confident that they had rectified it and that in itself would put me off having it back.

Toyota should do the right thing and if they do suspect the same as I do then they should also be getting hold of any vehicles that have had this software mod.

Jeff and Simes.

If I were in your shoes I think that I would get onto them and find out for certain if the software mod was the same one and try to get a feel for their opinion on this. You don't want to find out the hard way that yours was effected in a similar way. The Aftersales Manager at my dealer (RRG Macclesfield) is very helpful so that might be a good starting point for you at yours. I wouldn't settle until I had a proper explanation from Toyota GB.

All the best.

[Storm_SouthWest]

Sorry to hear about your problems... especially as that sounds serious.. is there any way though of confirming its the update that caused the issue? .. im guess not or they would have traced it..

My T180 went in for the software update not so long ago.

Have covered about 8k miles since the update (i drive alot of motorway miles) with no issues whatsoever found (thankfully) and the stalling problem completely gone.

Cheers

[sywy]

That's good to hear Storm.

No problems with mine so far (fingers crossed!!).

[Sussex_Paul]

Here's hoping that it is (and I know this ain't gonna make things any better for Bizz) just a one off glitch, isolated to one car then.

It was one of the few reservations I had about buying a T180 - the quantity of electronic gubbins and the potential for problems. :o

[Bizz]

According to the service manager at my dealer because they can not replicate any of my problems and that are no codes my Rav is totally fine and has no problems with it. When I pointed out that another owner had had the same locks problem after the ECU update, he said that was just a coincidence.

I am waiting for a call from trading standards.

[stv1x]

I am waiting for a call from trading standards.

I doubt trading standards will get involved but if you have genuine concerns for the safety of the vehicle then you should contact VOSPA who are the one organisation that car manufacturers do listen to. VOSPA are responsible for many vehicle recalls where the manufacturer has been reluctant, due to costs involved, to act. Records of previous issues with the same make/model of car are held by VOSPA and, where they deem necessary, they will carry out full mechanical checks on vehicles in order to make a case which is then presented at the highest level with the manufacturer.

Mr Stuart L Jenkins,

Senior Automotive Engineer

Vehicle & Operator Services Agency

Vehicle Safety Branch

Berkeley House

Croydon Street

BRISTOL BS5 0DA

steve

p.s. edited to add, when writing to vospa, include every detail concerning the problem, your concerns, Toyota's response, vehicle details - incl. registration number, time-line of events, etc.

[Bizz]

Thanks Steve, trading standards are already invloved as the dealer is part of the council "Buy with confidence" scheme for businesses approved by trading standards.

[stv1x]

Thanks Steve, trading standards are already invloved as the dealer is part of the council "Buy with confidence" scheme for businesses approved by trading standards.

Ah, okay......me thinks a two pronged attack, trading standards & vospa should sort it then.

GL

Steve

[Bizz]

Thanks Steve, trading standards are already invloved as the dealer is part of the council "Buy with confidence" scheme for businesses approved by trading standards.

Ah, okay......me thinks a two pronged attack, trading standards & vospa should sort it then.

GL

Steve

Letter to VOSPA being written.

[sywy]

Bizz, sorry to hear of your continuing troubles.

What are you trying to achieve? Do you want to reject the car?

Just for info, I have not experienced any adverse effects (yet!!) since having the ECU update.

[Manxrav]

Bizz, sorry to hear of your continuing troubles.

What are you trying to achieve? Do you want to reject the car?

Just for info, I have not experienced any adverse effects (yet!!) since having the ECU update.

Not wishing to appear a thicko, as I have read this thread with some trepadation and it is clearly a very HOT subject at the moment. The ECU update is it one that the Main Dealer does automatically when you take your Rav in for service or is it a recall? Just wondering, please don,t bite my head off for asking this question

Clare

[anchorman]

Bizz, sorry to hear of your continuing troubles.

What are you trying to achieve? Do you want to reject the car?

Just for info, I have not experienced any adverse effects (yet!!) since having the ECU update.

Not wishing to appear a thicko, as I have read this thread with some trepadation and it is clearly a very HOT subject at the moment. The ECU update is it one that the Main Dealer does automatically when you take your Rav in for service or is it a recall? Just wondering, please don,t bite my head off for asking this question

Clare

Hi Clare

Don't normally bite without being extremely antogonised

The software update is a cure for vehicles that have experienced poor starting or poor idling. Yours won't be modified unless it starts to play up and I suspect because of the nature of the problems with Bizz's car that Toyota will have altered that mod by now anyway. I don't suppose they will admit it because that will be an admission of liability.

I would be interested to know if Bizz has formally rejected the car in writing.

Regards

[chillyjeff]

I thought I would give a quick update on my car.

Following the trip to the dealer to correct the locking failure, no more problems have occured. The diagnostics did show a couple of error codes, one related to the double locking mechanism, the other associated with the climate control. So all appears well and they have fixed a problem with the a/c I didn't know I had.

Good service again from William a Lewis (Telford).

[Westie]

Hi Rav4 Owners

Just joined the, forum provoked by problem with my Rav4. Guess what, problems with cold starting. The car is now 16 months old and the garage is now aware of my problem (thanks to your posting I was able to steer them to were the cause might be. They promise to check it out with TGB and update the ECU with any new settings required. I previously owned an Avensis Tourer with no real problems so this will be a test of how good this dealer is who has given me A1 service to date. Keep you all posted

[anchorman]

Hi Westie

Welcome to the club.

Can they make sure that the ECU update is free of glitches before they apply it?

You don't want all these problems stated above.

Regards

[Westie]

Hi Westie

Welcome to the club.

Can they make sure that the ECU update is free of glitches before they apply it?

You don't want all these problems stated above.

Regards

Thanks for the welcome!

They should have no excuses I printed and gave them the 18 pages of the forum topic!!!