Do You Double Clutch On Gear Changes?

February 10, 2007

If you are not sure what double clutching is read this article:- http://www.torquecars.com/articles/double-de-clutching.php

Do you do this? Is it worth learning to do in your opinion? Are there any other quick gear change methods that you use.

Personally I try to do this on downshifts all the time so it becomes second nature to me on the track and at first it is quite hard and seems to take forever but now there is not much difference in gear change times.

February 10, 2007

Right here is my personal view:

On the upshift it has no use at all! From personal experience i have used it on the down shift ONLY when i want to accelerate hard without loss of speed/uncomfortable movements of car (E.g. An overtake, a corner which i want to accelerate round etc.) I used to foolishly do it whilst braking to make the downshifts smoother for passengers but obviously this removes the engine braking factor which improves slowing down hugely! (I used to want to be in the low gears earlier for roundabouts etc meaning i used to do it so i wasn't braking early aswell. Stupid i know but i'm talking very soon after passing when i had low gears for roundabouts drilled into my head!) Now when i'm slowing down i just have stored in my head key speeds at which i can downshift in each gear to maximise engine braking without any loss in comfort (a good compromise is best as with all things imo! :P) This also means i still get a good engine braking effect which reduces the wear on my brakes! (I'm sure someone will tell me it's better for brakes to wear then whatever else i'm putting the strain on :P) On the road i think double declutching is pretty useless and if you just brake harder before engaging the clutch you can slow down faster! Also synchromesh removes its need in every situation, except when changing down a gear when the revs will remain high! (Overtake etc. as before)

Also i find releasing the clutch when matching revs between downshifts makes no noticeable difference as opposed to keeping the clutch depressed and just blippin the throttle! Also i wouldn't say i often match the revs, more just a blip ABOVE what the revs will climb to so as to let the revs just fall back down (Which if you're accelerating hard after wont be much at all!) This is somewhat lazy i guess but i don't need track accuracy on the road and i am just doing it for comfort!

Furthermore double declutching and heel and toeing are useful really to aid braking later so you can just do it all at once rather than setting it up before the entry. On the road i wouldn't suggest leaving braking to the last minute anyway so it seems OTT and out of place! I haven't been able to try heel and toeing braking properly. I have attempted it offroad in my yaris just to see if i could do it and although i haven't got the accuracy in it to match the revs i can get a large enough blip but i can only do it with my foot solid on the brake due to the yaris pedal layout. This means it is unsafe to try on the road and much more effort than it is worth! (Even on track imo)

Sorry for the long post and i'm sure people will agree and disagree with many parts of this (Not to mention laugh at the fact it's an opinion of someone without even a year of driving experience and in a yaris) but it's just my personal honest views from experiences in my car :thumbsup:

February 10, 2007

There is actually no need to do this with todays gear boxes. double de-clutching was for crash gearboxes of yesteryear which you had to do otherwise you never would have changed gear. Though having said all that if you double de-clutch and you have to blip the throttle it will take the load of the syncos in the gearbox. If you get the revs right you don't actually need a clutch.

February 10, 2007

I usually heel/toe when decellerating through corners (but that's mostly so I can clutch-kick to get the back end out....LOL)

Never double-clutched in my life....

February 10, 2007

In the car, no, on the bike, yes...

February 10, 2007

As said double declutching is pointless in a modern car unless your synchros are toast anyway ;)

Matching revs on downshifts is good practice though, smoother gear changes leads to less wear on clutch and drivetrain. If you're using 'significant' amounts of engine braking to help slow the car you're putting extra wear on your expensive clutch and gearbox to save your cheap pads and disks... Oh and it messes with your brake bias too, probably won't care in a normal car but you will the first time you try it in something lightweight, powerful and RWD and you lock the rears up and then end up facing backwards before you even realise what's happened.

Heel and toe is all about getting your gearchanges out the way while you're still braking. Never necessary on the road, can be fun though :)

February 10, 2007

I only double-declutch on tractors.

Heel-toeing is beyond me and my malco size 10s (especially with the pedal layout of the Yaris!)

A

February 11, 2007

Double Clutching ** wow its like life on mars we have just jumped back a few decades**

Seruiously there is no need or point to doing this with a modern car. Concentrate on driving the car smoothly and get your braking points sorted and your line throught he corner, and being in the correct gear.

What difference do you think learning this technique will make?

February 11, 2007

heel and toe and left foot braking are my preferances along with flat shifting (but thats not good on gearboxes)

left foot braking trakes some practice but the benifits are good in a fwd high power car

February 11, 2007

no i just dont take my foot off the gas...........

February 11, 2007

I never got how you would ever be controlled during left foot braking as when i did try it off road i couldn't use any control because i wasn't bracing my body with anything when pushing the left pedal! This meant i could either stamp on the brake to balance myself or stamp on the throttle :wacko: Mayb you need a full harness to be able to do it? :P

February 11, 2007

I do when gearing down... I also like the crack and flash of flame from the escaust that the throttle blip occasionally rewards you with under "spirited" driving ;)

February 11, 2007

I never got how you would ever be controlled during left foot braking as when i did try it off road i couldn't use any control because i wasn't bracing my body with anything when pushing the left pedal! This meant i could either stamp on the brake to balance myself or stamp on the throttle Mayb you need a full harness to be able to do it? :P

I think its mainly because your left foot isn't used to doing the braking, it's used to kicking the clutch pedal down to the floor :) After all, you can brake and use the clutch at the same time. I've only ever tried it once and practically ended up headbutting the windscreen ;)

February 12, 2007

I never got how you would ever be controlled during left foot braking as when i did try it off road i couldn't use any control because i wasn't bracing my body with anything when pushing the left pedal! This meant i could either stamp on the brake to balance myself or stamp on the throttle Mayb you need a full harness to be able to do it? :P
I think its mainly because your left foot isn't used to doing the braking, it's used to kicking the clutch pedal down to the floor :) After all, you can brake and use the clutch at the same time. I've only ever tried it once and practically ended up headbutting the windscreen ;)

Lol yeah i totally can agree with that! But even when i got more sensitivity by practisin i found that the braking that pulls u forward in your chair is enough to throw off your balance to be able to control pedal pressure! I'm thinking it's me trying out race techniques in a standard yaris seat with normal seatbelts :!Removed!: :unsure: :lol:

Meh i dont see the harm in trying them but as said before by alan, heel and toeing in the yaris is sooo hard as the pedals are staggered unhelpfully with a huge distance between them aswell! I have size 12ish feet and even that with my long n thin shoes means i can only just reach but with no real control to warrant it useful or even fun! :( :P

February 12, 2007

if driving spirited goin up the gears i dont use the clutch, goin down then it depends on what im driving,

bus - yes

car - no

someone mentioned a crash box, you had to double clutch on them or the snapback could break your wrist! zf and voith gearboxs need the same treatment but arent as harsh

February 12, 2007

If you are not sure what double clutching is read this article:- http://www.torquecars.com/articles/double-de-clutching.php
Do you do this? Is it worth learning to do in your opinion? Are there any other quick gear change methods that you use.
Personally I try to do this on downshifts all the time so it becomes second nature to me on the track and at first it is quite hard and seems to take forever but now there is not much difference in gear change times.

Regarding double de clutching, the others are right. There is no need with todays synco's as they sort it out for you.

If your going up the box then you need to time you clutch up with the engine revs(eg up at the right revs, and this varies from car to car) so theres no noticable *****. If going down the gears the brakes should be used to slow the car, and then the app. gear selected, as brakes are cheaper than gearboxes! The key is to time everything so your gear is selected BEFORE the corner so you can go back to your gas whilst on the corner(just enough to mantain speed not to increase). This will settle the weight of the car on the bend and ensure that when the bend is ending and you can see ahead you can give it full beans onto the straight.

Hope this helps,