T180 Egr Valve Problems

[Peter (Preston)]

Hi, I have a Late Sep 2006 T180 which was great for the first 10K miles, it has now taken to going into limp home mode every 1K to 1.5K miles, roughly once every two weeks!

Limp home mode prevents you doing over 40mph, and it will not accelerate, too dangerous for driving on motorways and A Roads. HAC, Cruise etc all stop working.

The fault appears to be with EGR valve however the dealers have replaced this valve twice and cleaned it out once, however it still had to be towed back 200 miles last weekend.

As you can see I drive many miles mainly for work, and really need a reliable car. This is my first Toyota and unfortunately has proved to be my most unreliable car in 27 years of motoring. (I've even had a more reliable Allegro).

The cars been stuck in the dealers all this week as they are having to call In Toyota to look at the fault.

(Loaned me a yaris - nice but a bit small for a 6'3" 18 stone Engineer travelling from Preston to Glasgow)

Anyone out there with similar issues/similar mileage or know the answer?

Most annoying feature is having the engine stop/start button so that it shuts off all 12v power at first press, this means you get cut off in the middle of a phone call. Would prefer it to be a two stage stop, one press drop to aux position 2nd press, off completely.

Best features - Its about 50 times more comfortable than the Passat I had!

[anchorman]

Hi, I have a Late Sep 2006 T180 which was great for the first 10K miles, it has now taken to going into limp home mode every 1K to 1.5K miles, roughly once every two weeks!

Limp home mode prevents you doing over 40mph, and it will not accelerate, too dangerous for driving on motorways and A Roads. HAC, Cruise etc all stop working.

The fault appears to be with EGR valve however the dealers have replaced this valve twice and cleaned it out once, however it still had to be towed back 200 miles last weekend.

As you can see I drive many miles mainly for work, and really need a reliable car. This is my first Toyota and unfortunately has proved to be my most unreliable car in 27 years of motoring. (I've even had a more reliable Allegro).

The cars been stuck in the dealers all this week as they are having to call In Toyota to look at the fault.

(Loaned me a yaris - nice but a bit small for a 6'3" 18 stone Engineer travelling from Preston to Glasgow)

Anyone out there with similar issues/similar mileage or know the answer?

Most annoying feature is having the engine stop/start button so that it shuts off all 12v power at first press, this means you get cut off in the middle of a phone call. Would prefer it to be a two stage stop, one press drop to aux position 2nd press, off completely.

Best features - Its about 50 times more comfortable than the Passat I had!

The problem is that if the diagnostic readout keeps saying EGR valve the dealer will keep going to it when in fact it could be something else that is causing the EGR to give erratic readings. I would phone Toyota GB and ask to speak to technical or bully the dealer to do it.

The ignition switch sounds a nuisance! Mine has a normal switch so no such problem. Is there no way of over-riding it? I have looked in the dealer programmable options and there is nothing there. Is it not in the hand book?

Regards

[Peter (Preston)]

Hi, I have a Late Sep 2006 T180 which was great for the first 10K miles, it has now taken to going into limp home mode every 1K to 1.5K miles, roughly once every two weeks!

Limp home mode prevents you doing over 40mph, and it will not accelerate, too dangerous for driving on motorways and A Roads. HAC, Cruise etc all stop working.

The fault appears to be with EGR valve however the dealers have replaced this valve twice and cleaned it out once, however it still had to be towed back 200 miles last weekend.

As you can see I drive many miles mainly for work, and really need a reliable car. This is my first Toyota and unfortunately has proved to be my most unreliable car in 27 years of motoring. (I've even had a more reliable Allegro).

The cars been stuck in the dealers all this week as they are having to call In Toyota to look at the fault.

(Loaned me a yaris - nice but a bit small for a 6'3" 18 stone Engineer travelling from Preston to Glasgow)

Anyone out there with similar issues/similar mileage or know the answer?

Most annoying feature is having the engine stop/start button so that it shuts off all 12v power at first press, this means you get cut off in the middle of a phone call. Would prefer it to be a two stage stop, one press drop to aux position 2nd press, off completely.

Best features - Its about 50 times more comfortable than the Passat I had!

The problem is that if the diagnostic readout keeps saying EGR valve the dealer will keep going to it when in fact it could be something else that is causing the EGR to give erratic readings. I would phone Toyota GB and ask to speak to technical or bully the dealer to do it.

The ignition switch sounds a nuisance! Mine has a normal switch so no such problem. Is there no way of over-riding it? I have looked in the dealer programmable options and there is nothing there. Is it not in the hand book?

Regards

Thanks Anchorman, the dealer is in touch with Toyota, it must be something odd as they have had the car all week. My own suspicions are the turbo charger, it has a variable nozzle and I'm not sure if mine is!

The car also uses more fuel now then when it was brand new and I expected it to get better with a few miles on the clock.

I didnt know that there was any dealer programmable options, I'll have to look them up.

Peter

[Peter (Preston)]

:ffs: Update - Phoned the dealer today, they have been in touch with Toyota and apparently fixed it, however as I moaned baout not wanting it back untill it was reliable they let a saleman take it home. Yep it broke down again, now its stuck in a garage at Blackburn!

Could this be a design problem with the Engine??? Has anyone else got one with over 12000 miles on the clock?

Pretty fed up now as the Yaris I have on loan is just not adequate for my kind of mileage, especially with the amount of gear I have to carry.

Peter.

[spwolfx]

:ffs: Update - Phoned the dealer today, they have been in touch with Toyota and apparently fixed it, however as I moaned baout not wanting it back untill it was reliable they let a saleman take it home. Yep it broke down again, now its stuck in a garage at Blackburn!

Could this be a design problem with the Engine??? Has anyone else got one with over 12000 miles on the clock?

Pretty fed up now as the Yaris I have on loan is just not adequate for my kind of mileage, especially with the amount of gear I have to carry.

Peter.

ask for better replacement car. 177hp engine has been selling in Europe for a while now, shouldnt be any major problems, it is probably something isolated.

[clare]

:ffs: Update - Phoned the dealer today, they have been in touch with Toyota and apparently fixed it, however as I moaned baout not wanting it back untill it was reliable they let a saleman take it home. Yep it broke down again, now its stuck in a garage at Blackburn!

Could this be a design problem with the Engine??? Has anyone else got one with over 12000 miles on the clock?

Pretty fed up now as the Yaris I have on loan is just not adequate for my kind of mileage, especially with the amount of gear I have to carry.

Peter.

ask for better replacement car. 177hp engine has been selling in Europe for a while now, shouldnt be any major problems, it is probably something isolated.

My T180 has just done 13000 miles, serviced at 8000 miles when it was bought from Main dealer. Touch wood up to now no problems.(fingers crossed)

Clare

[anchorman]

:ffs: Update - Phoned the dealer today, they have been in touch with Toyota and apparently fixed it, however as I moaned baout not wanting it back untill it was reliable they let a saleman take it home. Yep it broke down again, now its stuck in a garage at Blackburn!

Could this be a design problem with the Engine??? Has anyone else got one with over 12000 miles on the clock?

Pretty fed up now as the Yaris I have on loan is just not adequate for my kind of mileage, especially with the amount of gear I have to carry.

Peter.

Bizz had some problems with fuel pump timing but I think trends in these complex engine control problems have yet to manifest themselves and we will just have to hope they are few and far between.

I'm not inclined to think that they are characteristic of higher mileage vehicles but as with most modern engines they incorperate a bewildering amount of electronic management and they are inevitably vulnerable. I think that most willl be thoroughly reliable for huge mileages but you have been unlucky. I also think you are in a strong position to request a more appropriate vehicle, maybe an Avensis estate or Verso - whatever the dealer can pull out of the dealer pool but I agree with you that I would not want it back until they have fully validated a fix. You may have to be patient as they could struggle to find it.

The variable rate turbo is quite straight forward. It uses engine vacuum to control a ristricting set of viens on the inlet side of the turbo (a bit like a butterfly in an old carburettor but a number of them arranged in a ring). You might be able to see the linkage move if you get somebody to blip the throttle while you look at the turbo but a fault with it is more likely to cause constant lack of power rather than it intermittently stopping. Usually if the engine reverts to "limp" it is an electrical component/circuit going open or towards a harmful limit which causes the ECU to revert to safe mode. Such a fault can also cause a momentary change to the emission system which might throw up a spurious EGR fault code and a red herring. You need a whizz kid on engine management systems and get the dealer to snap out of being so reliant on a diagnostic read out. It could be a stupid little fault like a poor connection or a slight air leak around one of the many air pipes surrounding the engine. It could also be something unexpected like water in the fuel filter or a blocked air filter but you can bet they will have changed niether as they will assume something complicated and immediately start looking too hard instead of eliminating the easy. I recently heard of a nearly new Passat with a contaminated fuel filter having hundreds of pounds worth of bits and pieces thrown at it before they cured it with a £5 filter!

You can always try to get a replacement vehicle but legally you have to give them sufficient chance to rectify the problem. A test of reasonableness will apply which swings more into your favour as time goes on and you are deprived of a suitable vehicle.

I truly feel for you because I know how frustrated I would be after spending so much money. It will also taint your impression of an otherwise essentially good car.

Keep you chin up mate.

Regards

[Jamboo 1]

Guys,

Lexus's cure to prevent the "limp home" is to replace the #5 injector...

I have a Lexus IS220d, same engine as the Rav 4 T180, Verso T180 etc. Some of the Lexus guys have had this problem on their 220d's - the dealers have replaced the "5th Injector". Though it's a 4 cyl car, there is another injector which apparently controls emmissions. If this injector plays up, the car goes into "Limp home" mode - and appears to have affected some of the earlier cars.

Dunno if this helps, but mention it to your technicians...

[Peter (Preston)]

:censor:

I can't really use the words I want...

Been to the dealer this morning. Still not fixed, they have now had it a full working week, and its no further on. The car has been in to three dealers none of them have been able to fix it, I'm thinking of rejecting the car as not fit for purpose, though the local dealer has asked for the rest of today to find the fault.

They will only loan a Yaris.

Our company has spoken to Toyota GB No help !

Our Company does not have an approved list for company car drivers with each individual able to choose whichever car (within budget) they want. It now looks like we are going to have a disapproved list with Toyota taking first place!

Real shame its such a good looking and comfortable car.

[Peter (Preston)]

Hi Anchorman thanks for the help. I don't think that I have explained that the car goes into limp home because the EGR valve is physically blocked with carbon deposits. Unfortunately its not an electronics malfunction, as there really is something going on. The trouble is the technicians don't seem to want to take anything apart unless the computer says so.

I still rekon either one or more of the injectors or the turbo is at fault. Bizz has given me a good lead on the 5th injector and I have mailed this down to the dealer. (I didn't see it before I went this morning).

Thanks for all the comments

[Peter (Preston)]

Finally got the car back last night. Dealer says they have had Toyota Area manager look at it. They have replaced the EGR valve again and updated the software to the ECU. What do you think will I make next weeks Journey?

Sunday Aberdeen, Monday to Newcastle, Tuesday to London, Wednesday to Maidenhead, Thursday to Cardiff, Friday back to home.

To be fair the dealer (Vantage Preston) has been ok, did eventually give me an Avensis.

Post at the end of next week to let you know.

Thanks

Peter.

[chatman]

Dealer says they have had Toyota Area manager look at it.

Peter.

Is he a Mechanic then.... or just kick the tyre's kind of guy

Hope all is OK, that's some serious millage you do..and should be a good test.....(Might be worth calling the RAC to just keep them on standby ;) ;) )

[Steve@Aberdeen]

My wife's previous car (a Suzuki Grand Vitara with the PSA HDi engine) went through a phase of "limp-mode". Came down to a sensor pipe getting blocked by oil; a minor mod eventually fixed it though, ironically, it wasn't at the Suzuki dealer - a local, independent garage run by an ex-Citroen mechanic fixed it (mind you, he also fixed a starting problem in a friend's Micra that the Nissan dealer couldn't fix).

Sensors are, by their nature, often vulnerable to failure. That's why critical systems in industry are usually double or triple set - 2 or 3 sensors reading the same parameter, polled so that the software can determine if a change is likely to be a process or sensor fault (take action if the former, just raise alarm if the latter). Being built to a price, and the sensors usually being costly parts, we have single sensor configurations. Whilst there can be problems, it's not usually so drastic shutting down a car engine (just in case) as, say, an aircraft engine.

[anchorman]

Finally got the car back last night. Dealer says they have had Toyota Area manager look at it. They have replaced the EGR valve again and updated the software to the ECU. What do you think will I make next weeks Journey?

Sunday Aberdeen, Monday to Newcastle, Tuesday to London, Wednesday to Maidenhead, Thursday to Cardiff, Friday back to home.

To be fair the dealer (Vantage Preston) has been ok, did eventually give me an Avensis.

Post at the end of next week to let you know.

Thanks

Peter.

Hi Peter

What did they say about the 5th injector?

Good luck with the trip.

Regards

[Peter (Preston)]

Hi Peter

What did they say about the 5th injector?

Good luck with the trip.

Regards

They have avoided that issue though I did see my email on the foremans desk. They seem to be convinced that its a software issue, trouble is it did 9.5K miles before it first went wrong, if the software was at fault I would have thought the fault would have manifested itself after a 1K miles (or less) like it does now.

I am not confident that it will make it through next week...... Heres Hoping.

[Peter (Preston)]

Hi Peter

What did they say about the 5th injector?

Good luck with the trip.

Regards

They have avoided that issue though I did see my email on the foremans desk. They seem to be convinced that its a software issue, trouble is it did 9.5K miles before it first went wrong, if the software was at fault I would have thought the fault would have manifested itself after a 1K miles (or less) like it does now.

I am not confident that it will make it through next week...... Heres Hoping.

Well it didn't make it, broke down in Durham had to be brought back to Preston on the back of a truck. Same fault it had only done about 700 miles since the last repair.

To be fair to Toyata they are now looking at replacing the vehicle as three dealers and there area technicican has not been able to fix the fault.

Quite fed up really the Rav is a really good car to drive (when all is well) really enjoyed the drive down from Aberdeen to Newcastle on the Monday afternoon/early evening, good weather and some good roads with spectaclar scenery chosen by the sat nav.

I will have to wait till Monday/Tuesday to know the outcome. Meanwhile driving a Zafira, not a patch on the Rav.

[anchorman]

Hi Peter

What did they say about the 5th injector?

Good luck with the trip.

Regards

They have avoided that issue though I did see my email on the foremans desk. They seem to be convinced that its a software issue, trouble is it did 9.5K miles before it first went wrong, if the software was at fault I would have thought the fault would have manifested itself after a 1K miles (or less) like it does now.

I am not confident that it will make it through next week...... Heres Hoping.

Well it didn't make it, broke down in Durham had to be brought back to Preston on the back of a truck. Same fault it had only done about 700 miles since the last repair.

To be fair to Toyata they are now looking at replacing the vehicle as three dealers and there area technicican has not been able to fix the fault.

Quite fed up really the Rav is a really good car to drive (when all is well) really enjoyed the drive down from Aberdeen to Newcastle on the Monday afternoon/early evening, good weather and some good roads with spectaclar scenery chosen by the sat nav.

I will have to wait till Monday/Tuesday to know the outcome. Meanwhile driving a Zafira, not a patch on the Rav.

Any news?

[Peter (Preston)]

Any news?

Been to see the dealer this morning, the car is being taken to the training and test centre somewhere in London (Salford??)

However I have said I don't want it back as I have lost confidence in the vehicle, It has now broke down 7 times, 3 of those have been in the outside lane of main roads/motorways. Whereas I've managed to get it to a safe place my luck must be running out.

Meanwhile still got the Zafira.

Peter

[chatman]

Been to see the dealer this morning, the car is being taken to the training and test centre somewhere in London (Salford??)

However I have said I don't want it back as I have lost confidence in the vehicle, It has now broke down 7 times, 3 of those have been in the outside lane of main roads/motorways. Whereas I've managed to get it to a safe place my luck must be running out.

Meanwhile still got the Zafira.

Peter

Peter may be worth giving this girl a call.... from the Toyota mag...Get across the problems of actually getting them to do something and fix the issues...

Seems to be a lot of water leaks on the T180 and now this issue.....Come on Toyota sort it out....

I am the Deputy Editor of Today Tomorrow magazine, the official magazine for Toyota users in the UK.

In the magazine, there is a page at the end where we ask owners to tell us their story. I wonder if you and your RAV4 would be interested in taking part? The page would need for you to answer a few questions by phone, and then for a photographer to come and take your picture with the car, which should take about 1-2 hours. The ‘I love my’ page is an opportunity for drivers of Toyota vehicles to tell us a good story about their car.

Please let me know if you are interested in taking part in this page and if you have a particular story in mind. We are shortlisting candidates this week.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Anyone else have a story they would like to tell about their Toyota? Contact me at jessica@sundaypublishing.com

[Peter (Preston)]

Sorry for late reply been working away for a while.

The dealer/Toyota have had my car for three weeks now. It has been sent down to the R&D centre in London only this week.

Toyota have now loaned me a RAV4 XT4 petrol auto, not exactly the T180 but more comfortable than Zafira.

Wonder how much longer I'll have to wait, I have been without the car now for over 6 weeks since Christmas.

So the company is paying for a T180 and we are driving an XT4 petrol auto. (28 mpg). Feeling pretty downhearted with all this hassle don't think I'll be getting another Toyota, and to be honest I've lost interest in the car, as this is our busiest period work wise.

Peter.

[anchorman]

Sorry for late reply been working away for a while.

The dealer/Toyota have had my car for three weeks now. It has been sent down to the R&D centre in London only this week.

Toyota have now loaned me a RAV4 XT4 petrol auto, not exactly the T180 but more comfortable than Zafira.

Wonder how much longer I'll have to wait, I have been without the car now for over 6 weeks since Christmas.

So the company is paying for a T180 and we are driving an XT4 petrol auto. (28 mpg). Feeling pretty downhearted with all this hassle don't think I'll be getting another Toyota, and to be honest I've lost interest in the car, as this is our busiest period work wise.

Peter.

Peter

I think you are now well within your rights to reject the car. I would go to the dealer manager and formally request either another T180 or your money back.

They should co-operate but if not dig your heels in.

Cheers

[Peter (Preston)]

Sorry for late reply been working away for a while.

The dealer/Toyota have had my car for three weeks now. It has been sent down to the R&D centre in London only this week.

Toyota have now loaned me a RAV4 XT4 petrol auto, not exactly the T180 but more comfortable than Zafira.

Wonder how much longer I'll have to wait, I have been without the car now for over 6 weeks since Christmas.

So the company is paying for a T180 and we are driving an XT4 petrol auto. (28 mpg). Feeling pretty downhearted with all this hassle don't think I'll be getting another Toyota, and to be honest I've lost interest in the car, as this is our busiest period work wise.

Peter.

Peter

I think you are now well within your rights to reject the car. I would go to the dealer manager and formally request either another T180 or your money back.

They should co-operate but if not dig your heels in.

Cheers

Thanks Anchorman, we have rejected the car and are awaiting Toyota's response. The vehicle is through Toyota Financial Services who are also involved. TFS have been pretty good I get the feeling that they are happy to replace the vehicle and its Toyota GB that are not happy as they will have to take the hit financially.

That's how the car ended up getting shipped down to London to the R&D site to see if it an be fixed. They don't appear to understand that I have lost confidence as I have been told so many times that the vehicle has been fixed only for it to breakdown after a few hundred miles.

Haven't heard any further this week but will keep everyone updated.

Dealer is also frustrated as they of course have a well fed up customer...

Peter

[anchorman]

Sorry for late reply been working away for a while.

The dealer/Toyota have had my car for three weeks now. It has been sent down to the R&D centre in London only this week.

Toyota have now loaned me a RAV4 XT4 petrol auto, not exactly the T180 but more comfortable than Zafira.

Wonder how much longer I'll have to wait, I have been without the car now for over 6 weeks since Christmas.

So the company is paying for a T180 and we are driving an XT4 petrol auto. (28 mpg). Feeling pretty downhearted with all this hassle don't think I'll be getting another Toyota, and to be honest I've lost interest in the car, as this is our busiest period work wise.

Peter.

Peter

I think you are now well within your rights to reject the car. I would go to the dealer manager and formally request either another T180 or your money back.

They should co-operate but if not dig your heels in.

Cheers

Thanks Anchorman, we have rejected the car and are awaiting Toyota's response. The vehicle is through Toyota Financial Services who are also involved. TFS have been pretty good I get the feeling that they are happy to replace the vehicle and its Toyota GB that are not happy as they will have to take the hit financially.

That's how the car ended up getting shipped down to London to the R&D site to see if it an be fixed. They don't appear to understand that I have lost confidence as I have been told so many times that the vehicle has been fixed only for it to breakdown after a few hundred miles.

Haven't heard any further this week but will keep everyone updated.

Dealer is also frustrated as they of course have a well fed up customer...

Peter

Good luck mate.

You shouldn't have to put up with any more of that nonsense. Don't get me wrong, I am sure Toyota are just as fed up as you but I used to drive 25-30k miles a year and it is no fun when you have your heart in your mouth the whole time.

I'm sure they will see it your way.

Regards

[stv1x]

I can't believe this thread :(

My wife is just getting out of Renault Megane ownership for exactly the same symptoms and it all appears to be connected with the EGR valve!

The T180 is due to arrive in approximately 6 weeks and if we go through this again then I'll probably be tempted to drive it off a cliff!

See this link and you'll see that the EGR valve is connected with turbo failures on the 1.9DCi engine throughout the Renault range

1.9DCi Turbo Failures

I was going to add a link to the MeganeII owners Forum which identifies exactly the same issue but the forum is down at the moment.

The 'limp home' mode is something that my wife has experienced twice now so I feel for your frustration Peter. This can be caused by a sticking EGR valve as well as a Vacuum Pump failure. Incidentally, the latter can also reduce the effectiveness of brakes which can be highly dangerous! If you want to see what an EGR valve looks like when it's 'clogged' then take a look at this link to a pdf file

EGR Valve

Ultimately, it looks as though the next thing to go after the EGR Valve is the turbo so whatever you do be sure to get out of that car, as in ownership, as soon as you can.

My first post and you can't imagine how much I'd rather be reading good things about the T180 rather than the :censor: EGR Valve!

Steve

[KEGS]

:ffs: Update - Phoned the dealer today, they have been in touch with Toyota and apparently fixed it, however as I moaned baout not wanting it back untill it was reliable they let a saleman take it home. Yep it broke down again, now its stuck in a garage at Blackburn!

Could this be a design problem with the Engine??? Has anyone else got one with over 12000 miles on the clock?

Pretty fed up now as the Yaris I have on loan is just not adequate for my kind of mileage, especially with the amount of gear I have to carry.

Peter.

JUST ABOUT TO CLOCK UP 16 000MILES. THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAD WAS ELECTRICAL, THE SAT NAV SCREEN AND STEREO STAYED ON PERMENANTLY. AT SECOND TIME OF ASKING THEY REPLACED THE CPU AND IT'S RUN FINE EVER SINCE. THESE MOTORS HAVE "COMPLEX" ELECTRICS AND MAYBE IT IS JUST A COMPUTER MANAGEMENT ISSUE. DIAGNOSTICS DOESN'T ALWAYS GIVE THE RIGHT ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM...