Instant Flat Tyres

[opo]

Hello,

Is anybody aware of the 'problem' with T4 17" lowprofile wheels and tyres?

From new, YP04 ***, the car has suffered from sudden flat tyres (5 in last 12 months) When it first happened I thought it was a puncture, I changed the wheel and took flat to tyre repair outlet. They checked it and found no sign of puncture? Refitted to car. 2 weeks later the other front tyre suddenly went flat?? Changed it and took flat to another tyre outlet, Kwik-fit, and told them the story of previous flat. They checked the tyre and found no sign of any puncture. They removed the tyre from the wheel and checked the inside rim of the wheel for any damage or irregularity, and found nothing??? The tyre fitter said the only explanation was air leaking from the rim. When the air pressure in the tyre reached a low enough level and the tyre was stressed(cornering etc.) the tyre would roll off the rim giving an instant flat tyre.!!!!!

I understand alloy wheels are slightly porous and are not as good at holding their pressure as steel wheels, but it would appear my alloy wheels leak air like a sponge. If I don't blow up my tyres once a month then shortly after I have an instant flat tyre usually just after a corner. The magic Psi for the front tyres appears to be around 20lbs, after that, get ready. The rears are slightly lower as no cornering pressures come to bear, about 18lbs.

Apart from the flats the wheels and tyres are ,as reported elsewhere on this forum, very hard and noisy, the ONLY plus point is they look good.

Having spoken to my dealer in Sheffield about replacement wheels and tyres, the cost, £1000+ has put me off.

Has anyone taken this complaint to toyota with any outcome?

[Chris Dance]

No problem with my T4 with regard to tyres going flat. I do keep them at 35 PSI all round. I try to do a 2 week check on them but it usually is a month. I find the tyres have not fallen in pressure very much on these checks.

I have bought my own Michelin inflator with gauge from Halfords. It plugs into the cigarette lighter.

[uumode]

I find the pressure from my Dunlops drops a bit over a couple of months about 6 psi or so.

I have a Bridgestone which seems to main the psi, and I use the auto inflate digital display pumps only on forcourts (which I assume are more accurate than the older manual analogue gauge on hand pump).

Air can leak out of faulty valves.

[Jinxed]

one thing you could try is get some fairy liquid and make up a bucket of water with loads of fairy.... take off eache wheel and liberally cover with the very soapy water... inflate your tyre while its on and look for bubbling....

an alloy of mine had like a couple of small holes corroded in it... they werent visible but they were there.... this found them... maybe that will elimate the rubber, or the alloys, or the valves etc... hopefully its just something fixable for low cost :)

[Penfold]

opo,

I'd like to think you check your TP more regularly than that to let the pressures get dangerously low. :(

Not only is it unsafe (as you know from the sudden deflation) but you are putting extra money in Gordon B's pocket by using extra fuel - now that is unacceptable :)

Seriously though, we have equipped our ambulance fleet with visual aid dust covers for each tyre valve. You can get them with preset pressures to match your car/tyres. They show a green cap when OK, yellow when getting low and red for when it is all about to go t*ts up on you.

Of course, you do have to remember to check them every day but as it is only a quick look it shouldn't be too taxing.

You can get them over the internet. They also have locknuts to stop them being removed by ASBO magpies.

Hope this helps.

[Black Knight]

From new, YP04 ***,

Having spoken to my dealer in Sheffield about replacement wheels and tyres, the cost, £1000+ has put me off.

Why isn't the dealer sorting this through warranty? If the wheels are unsuitable for service then they should be replacing them for you under warranty.

If the leak shows using Jinxeds tip with the soapy water it should be a very straight forward proof of fault and get the dealer to replace them.

[opo]

opo,

I'd like to think you check your TP more regularly than that to let the pressures get dangerously low. :(

Not only is it unsafe (as you know from the sudden deflation) but you are putting extra money in Gordon B's pocket by using extra fuel - now that is unacceptable :)

______________________________________________________________

My other car is a corolla, it's 7 years old. In that time the tyres have required 'blowing up' to their original pressure three times!!!!!!!, and no sudden punctures.

Thanks for the dust cap tip. sounds good. How big are they? and where can I get some please.

[Shoto]

My T180 has 17" alloys with low profile tyres. I check tyre pressures weekly and have no problems with air loss/deflation. I certainly wouldn't drive on tyre pressures as low as 20 psi for safety reasons.

[opo]

My T180 has 17" aloys with low profile tyres. I check tyre pressures weekly and have no problems with air loss/deflation. I certainly wouldn't drive on tyre pressures as low as 20 psi for safety reasons.

Shoto,

Do you seriously think I purposely drive around with 20lbs psi in my tyres? There is a fault and I am trying to find if anyone else has been through the same problem, please read the letter and think before finding niggly faults with it.

[matty2767]

the problem with low profiles is that you only need to lose a small volume of air for the pressure to decrease significantly.

[gazza1286]

Have you considered using inner tubes? This would certainly solve the problem - assuming they are available for low-profile tyres.

[matty2767]

it might sound stupid but have you checked the tyres are actually for the wheels. the turanza ones i have for mine come in a different version for bmws. the worng ones havent been fitted by mistake have they?

[uumode]

it might sound stupid but have you checked the tyres are actually for the wheels. the turanza ones i have for mine come in a different version for bmws. the worng ones havent been fitted by mistake have they?

It's odd the symptoms are from new, so factory fit tyres.

[Penfold]

Opo,

These have recently come on the market - www.brandnetics.co.uk/valve and apparently will retail around £16 a set.

They are slightly different to the one we use. As soon as I see my colleague who purchased them I will pass on the details.

My wife's 2001 Corolla only needs the tyres topped up by a couple of pound every 4-6 months and this car is running the 8 spoke alloys with dunlop SP200 series tyres as fitted when new. Car is used on country and urban roads.

My 1998 Avensis though used to have some awful cheap eastern bloc rubber on the front and was forever losing air. Would drop from 28 to 20 psi over 3 weeks. I changed to dunlop SP200 series and the problem has gone away and is pretty much the same usage as the Corolla.

(I happen to like the dunlop as I find it is grippier on the limit than a michelin and better in the wet than Pirelli - it does wear out quickly though but i'd rather buy new rubber than a new car given the Avensis' tendancy to understeer. Although once you've driven a mini cooper everything else understeers)

You could try taking the tyres off the rims and having the insides painted again. If the alloy is porous then this should seal it off without the need to change to inner tubes. Make sure that the inside lip is absolutely smooth where the tyre bead is supposed to seat. The slightest amount of corrosion or deformity here will allow air to escape under normal use.

All the best !

[Shoto]

My T180 has 17" alloys with low profile tyres. I check tyre pressures weekly and have no problems with air loss/deflation. I certainly wouldn't drive on tyre pressures as low as 20 psi for safety reasons.

Shoto,

Do you seriously think I purposely drive around with 20lbs psi in my tyres? There is a fault and I am trying to find if anyone else has been through the same problem, please read the letter and think before finding niggly faults with it.

Calm down Opo, I wasn't finding niggly faults with your e-mail. I could suggest that I find your response rather rude in accusing me of not thinking. I was actually making the point that I always check my tyres weekly, I do this to ensure that all is well (tread & pressure) as my safety relies on 4 fairly small points of contact with the road. If I found a tyre with just 20 psi or lower after a week I would certainly be looking for the cause - just like you. I never accused you of driving around with 20psi in your tyres.

I'll leave you to sort out your problem, good luck.

[Ringthane]

There is another possibility I suppose.

It could be someone messing about and letting the air out of your tyres.

Just a thought as it has happened to me.

[opo]

There is another possibility I suppose.

It could be someone messing about and letting the air out of your tyres.

Just a thought as it has happened to me.

I thought of that too, so we put the car away in the garage, same result.

[opo]

:)

My T180 has 17" alloys with low profile tyres. I check tyre pressures weekly and have no problems with air loss/deflation. I certainly wouldn't drive on tyre pressures as low as 20 psi for safety reasons.

Shoto,

Do you seriously think I purposely drive around with 20lbs psi in my tyres? There is a fault and I am trying to find if anyone else has been through the same problem, please read the letter and think before finding niggly faults with it.

Calm down Opo, I wasn't finding niggly faults with your e-mail. I could suggest that I find your response rather rude in accusing me of not thinking. I was actually making the point that I always check my tyres weekly, I do this to ensure that all is well (tread & pressure) as my safety relies on 4 fairly small points of contact with the road. If I found a tyre with just 20 psi or lower after a week I would certainly be looking for the cause - just like you. I never accused you of driving around with 20psi in your tyres.

I'll leave you to sort out your problem, good luck.

I apologise Shoto, sorry I upset you. :( This Tyre problem is really getting to my wife and I, it's got to the point of checking the tyres before every journey, which is rubbish in winter. :ffs:

My wife has told me off for your upset.

I am taking the tyre problem further with Toyota before the 3 year gaurantee runs out. We have owned 5 Avensis cars and 2 corollas over the last 8 years and this is the first car with this problem. :)

[Chris Dance]

Let us know how you get on at the dealers please. I can understand you and your wife's concern over this. It could be dangerous getting a flat whilst driving. Have you had the car from new? I just wondered if anybody could have bounced it down a high kerb or something.

[Shoto]

Hi Opo,

Apology accepted and appreciated. This tyre problem is of understandable concern to both you and your good lady. I was thinking about the issue and recall a product called Ultra Seal that could be squirted into tyres to prevent punctures. I have used a similar product to good effect although I bought it in the USA on a business trip some years ago. I know tyre fitters don't like the stuff but I gather many U.K. police vehicles now use this or a similar product to help avoid punctures.

http://www.ultraseal-tyre-protection.co.uk...mouth/index.asp

You'll need to look at the tab for light cars and vans.

The compound stays liquid inside the tyre so it doesn't clump in one area and thus affect tyre balance.

As a member of a motorcyle club I also remember some of the other riders saying they use Ultra Seal in tubeless bike tyres. In the event of a nail or screw being picked up, the offending item may be removed (depending on where the puncture point is) and the goo inside the tyre plugs the hole with barely any drop in pressure. The stuff I bought from the USA did just this, I can vouch for it.

I don't know if this will help but it may be worth a try considering the cost of new tyres or wheels.

As we don't know the exact cause, finding a solution is proving rather tricky.

Good luck and please keep us posted, your findings may also be able to help others on this site.

[druand]

Please do not even think about fitting tubes, doubt if one is made for your size of tyre and positively dangerous to fit one. May also have insurance implications in event of an accident.

Check tyre is not leaking at bead, lay wheel flat and run soap solution round rim,if you detect a rim leak at bead most tyre fitters will remove tyre and refit with a special compound for sealing tyres at bead.

Metal type valves of type fitted with rubber grommet are a source of trouble as well.

[opo]

From new, YP04 ***,

Having spoken to my dealer in Sheffield about replacement wheels and tyres, the cost, £1000+ has put me off.

Why isn't the dealer sorting this through warranty? If the wheels are unsuitable for service then they should be replacing them for you under warranty.

If the leak shows using Jinxeds tip with the soapy water it should be a very straight forward proof of fault and get the dealer to replace them.

The dealer is supports me and has sent all details off to Toyota, we are waiting for the result. The dealer is also changing the steering column because its got a clunk noise and is also sorting out the air conditioning again(sorted last Sept.'06)because it smells quite bad(acrid smell, eyes water, sore throat).

Meanwhile I have decided to get rid and exchange it for a new T3x, without lowprofile tyres. The downside is we cannot have delivery until June

[cfc1]

Have you considered using inner tubes? This would certainly solve the problem - assuming they are available for low-profile tyres.

You cannot put an inner tube into these tyres.. only 60 series tyres and above can be tubed.

it might sound stupid but have you checked the tyres are actually for the wheels. the turanza ones i have for mine come in a different version for bmws. the worng ones havent been fitted by mistake have they?

The difference between tyres for different makes of car is sidewall strength and flexabilty and rubber compounds for grip... nothing is any different in the actual fitment to the rims.

Hi Opo, I know tyre fitters don't like the stuff but I gather many U.K. police vehicles now use this or a similar product to help avoid punctures.

http://www.ultraseal-tyre-protection.co.uk...mouth/index.asp

You'll need to look at the tab for light cars and vans.

The compound stays liquid inside the tyre so it doesn't clump in one area and thus affect tyre balance.

As a member of a motorcyle club I also remember some of the other riders saying they use Ultra Seal in tubeless bike tyres. In the event of a nail or screw being picked up, the offending item may be removed (depending on where the puncture point is) and the goo inside the tyre plugs the hole with barely any drop in pressure. The stuff I bought from the USA did just this, I can vouch for it.

No, we don't like this stuff... and for good reason.....

Most of them don't work.. and if you but one that does work then pick up a nail, you wouldn't know it was there as the tyre wouldn't deflate... big safety concern if you are driving at speed on a motorway with a 2" nail near your sidewall.

It DOES effect the balance.. balance is all to do with balancing out uneven weight,(if one part of the wheell/tyre is 25grams heavies than the other.. 25grams of weight is added to the opposite side to balance it out) this liquid inside a tyre does weigh something and as it stays liquid it moves around inside the tyre... so the weight of the tyre/wheel is constantly shifting resulting in the wheels being slightly out of balance. (obviously depends on how much liquid is used)

The most common form of a tyre loosing pressure is a leaky seal... get the tyre removed, clean any corrosion on the seating point of the wheel off... put on some bead sealer and refit the tyre.. this will solve over 90% of leaky beads.

[Shoto]

Form your own opinions on this. A police motorcyclist explained to me that the high centrifugal forces created when a wheel revolves distributes the tyre-sealing liquid evenly so it doesn't matter if there is a weight bias on the tyre - the fitter should have addressed this with wheel weights. I'm not a fitter, this was the opinion of a traffic officer who had used a tyre-sealing liquid over many miles and at very high speeds.

[robv11]

Hi OPO,

The story of your is very similar to what I had experienced last year. I had flat tyre every week and same story always….no puncture but flat tyre! And as I don’t have any enemies (yet!) and park car in my own drive way, the chances of someone coming and taking out the air was also remote. It came to a stage that I made friends with my local garage and almost every mechanic knows me there! And inside my mind I was afraid to even drive on motorway for the fear that I will have a flat tyre!

Anyway, the problem is the rim. All what you need to do is to:

1. Remove the tyre from the rim

2. Get the rim cleaned properly. I mean properly. I paid extra few quids to the guy doing the job and he cleaned the “inside” of the rim using the motorized sander. It did take him 10 minutes extra but it has solved the problem.

3. Re-seal the tyre.

The problem of leakage is due to the fact that the paint of the alloy peals out causing a gap on the sides of the rim. And on high speeds when the forces are greater on the wheels, air starts escaping out. I don’t know if it a problem only with T4 17” rims or with all the alloys. (I have T4 17”)

I have not had a problem ever since the above was done. I do check pressure every 2 weeks but for past 3 months, it hasn’t dropped even 1 psi!

Hope this helps and good luck!