Tsport Blown Up Twice!

[zarakar]

ok i would love some input please

a month ago i posted saying my beloved t sport had suffered a head gasket failure! turns out it was due to severe overheating but toyota have not been able to find a cause

i was advised that the car may need a new head and would cost £3k to fix as the head was warped and the guidelines was not to skim over .5

they then told me that although they previously said they had never heard of a 190bhp head gasget blowing, that after ivestigation a local toyota dealer (Brighton) had skimmed 3 cylyinder heads all around the the same level as mine .8 to .9 and all have been succesfull so they went ahead and skimmed

nearly three weeks later i get my car back hand over £1500 and all seems well....... not to be!!!

as soon as iget into the car i crank the engine it fires for a second and dies it then took 10 turns with my foot on the gas for it to fire again and it sounded really lumpy i pointed this out straight away and was told that the car had been standing and i should take it for a long run to dry up any water left in the exhaust etc.

it had a small delay in starting when the engine was warm but major when cold

took the car back the next day due to the same starting issues it was plugged in and there were no fault codes BUT the mechanic said they had NOT changed the spark plugs despite the fact that they could of taken seriuos abuse dueto the catastophic overheating and gasket failure and they should be changed but still leave it a few days and see how i go

the next day the car had been running for 5 mins and poof a suddden and total loss of compression no warning, just gone i pulled over and opened the oil cap and got a face full of steam

back it went and i have been told so far that 3 spark plugs were "caked in antifreeze and one cannot be removed" no further comment untill the head is removed again

[Jinxed]

hope you get it all sorted post haste :( tis sad to have a little motor friend be unwell

[GIDDLEPIN]

Did you have the cylinder head skimmed then? If so they would have stripped it right down, removing all studs, valves, spark plugs etc leaving it completely bare, I don’t know of any reputable engineering firm that would skim a head in any other condition.

As far as plugs being “Caked in anti-freeze”, this is a new one on me, IF, the spark plugs had been removed and replaced even without inspection the only way I would expect them to be seized is with corrosion or cross threading.

I’ll be interested to hear what the results are.

Les

[zarakar]

yes it was skimmed and i pressume it was completely stripped

then they just replaced the original plugs etc

oh one more thing i kept hearing a loud ping when the engine had stopped??

[GIDDLEPIN]

yes it was skimmed and i pressume it was completely stripped

then they just replaced the original plugs etc

oh one more thing i kept hearing a loud ping when the engine had stopped??

I hope that wasn't the sound of a piston slapping a valve :shutit:

[Ken N]

It sounds like the block might have cracked. How old is this car and how many miles has it done?

If it is the block, then it might be questionable whether the head gasket actually had blown. Presumably you spotted this because it started using water (is that correct?). Did you know it had overheated?

£1500 seems a lot for skimming a head. If I were you I would be asking serious questions.

[zarakar]

main cost was labour £1050

have been asking many Questions such as why did you give me the car back and encourage me to drive it when it was not right???

and if they have done this work on 3 other cars and this is a rare condition what did they do or not do to my car that blew it again

they have got back to me and said the whole engine is screwed that the valves have been chewed up in the piston!!!!

no one at the dealer can answer me why they released the car when it was not in full working oreder and failed to action when it was returned to them the following day!!! when questioned they said we didnt know how the car would react to the repair

Surely a main dealer should have a policy on returning vehicals back to the customer not in full working order?? if they had investigated the fault i wouldn't be in this situation?

[CustomIce]

Watchdog time!

[Black Knight]

Head gaskets don't just fail for no reason there must be something they can find to understand why.

Had the car been serviced recently? Possibly air-lock in the coolant system for example if the coolant had been changed recently.

Any obvious signs of coolant leaks?

If you didn't see an high temperature warnings on the temperature gauge it suggests low coolant levels (with no coolant in the head there's nothing to conduct heat to the temperature sensor)

As for the secondary failure after being skimmed my gut feeling is screaming head reassembly problem. If the failure seems localised to one cylinder I'd say the valve retaining locks haven't been put back together correctly and it's dumped a valve into the chamber. If the damage is across all of the valves in the engine it's more likely to be a problem with the cam timing.

One final posibility is that the pistons have been picking up in the bores and seized. If it looks like at least one of the pistons has broken away from the con-rods I'd say it was a destict possibility. Its fairly easy to tell if this is the case. Get them to pull all the pistons out of the engine. If you see heavy scoring down the piston skirt and the pistons rings/grooves "bent" out of round (if you turn a piston around looking at the groove it should travel in a straight line, if it's bent up/down it's been picking up in the bores). If it is this it's because of no cooling to the cylinder walls (i.e. same problem that caused the head to warp and further arguement to no/low coolant in the engine)

[Ken N]

This garage should be liable for the repair. If the valves are chewed up, then the clearance was wrong and the ping was almost certainly the valve hitting the piston. The most likely cause of that is that they got the timing adjusted incorrectly, although it is conceivable they shaved too much off the head.

This garage has destroyed the engine and have charged you £1500 for the privelege. My recommendation is that you advise them (in writing) to give you a courtesy car immediately while they put it right at their own cost. If they don't, then tell them you will take it elsewhere and they will be liable for the bill which will be recovered via court action if necessary. You can do this via the small claims court if it is less than £5,000 (you don't need a solicitor for this and it doesn't cost very much). If it is more, you should check whether you have cover on any household insurance. I doubt it would get that far though and the garage will almost certainly cave in. You will need to give them a strict deadline for resonding (48 hours?) otherwise they will just sit on it.

You won't get very far trying to reason with the garage. They messed up big time and this will be very costly for them. I imagine Trading Standards would be interested only if there are a lot of complaints about that garage, but they might be able to provide some advice (I haven't been impressed with my dealings with Trading Standards).

Send me a PM if you want some wording to put in the letter. Let us know what you decide anyway.

(PS Just read Black Knight's response which makes good sense.)

[zarakar]

Firstly Thankyou to all who have made comment (ken i will be taking your advice) secondly i know its another long post but it could serve as a reference point to any one else that has the misfortune of a ***** up

The dealer said straight away that the guidelines set by toyota were not to skim over .5 warp (but they did it) and that the work was at my risk!!! (so they basicly dangled a carrot in front of my nose and said "look we can do this for half the price all the other ones have been ok"which one are you going to choose??) when questioned about the release of the car again and asked if not policy surely best practise would of been to hold and ivestigate i had the response of "best practice would of been not to of done the work!!!! we also never expected this to happen"

So have spoken to the following to start with:

Toyota GB:

initial reaction to a toyota franchise carrying out the work even though it was outside toyotas guidelines was that they were concerned, and then to be told that they released the car still with fault under those circumstances was even more worrying. in response to this was told "i cant give you a full answer but i would not want to be in their shoes, we will be investigating as a priority first thing monday")

consumerline/Trading standards

Strongly recommend pursuing action due to the fact the law states that all work must be carried out with reasonable care and skill and failure to retain the car and/or to investigate the fault fully shows negligence on their part

[GIDDLEPIN]

Best of luck and I hope all goes well

Les

[zarakar]

problem sorted

Got no money out of them but managed to get a £8500 corolla 1.6 t spirit in exchange for the ruined tsport

which is around £1500 more than a good trade in price and around the amount i could of got for private sale

suits my needs with the kids and that but still VERY sad to see my t sport go

gonna keep it for a year and part ex for a leon cupra

Thanks again for the help