T-sport Auris

[tsporttinny]

Does any1 think they will bring out an auris T-SPORT :!Removed!: would like to think will buy one when my CTS has done too many miles :(

[GRD008]

seems unlikely according to an article on top gear's website

http://www.topgear.com/content/news/stories/1744/

check the last paragraph....

[Chris.S]

I believe the T sport Badge has been dropped now, if you notice the hot Yaris is an SR once again

T180 is the current top of the range at the moment but there may be hotter variants in the pipeline

[acidman]

check the last paragraph....

maybe the same guy , who said there won't be a Yaris TS ? :D

Toyota says always there won't be a hotter version of any car .... market strategy.

It will come an Auris TS (or F1 ,or what else it calls).

But noone reveals the engine (so far) ... 1.8 dual-VVTL-i ? 2.0l ? 2.4l? who knows ?

[rolley]

maybe the same guy , who said there won't be a Yaris TS ? :D

Toyota says always there won't be a hotter version of any car .... market strategy.

It will come an Auris TS (or F1 ,or what else it calls).

But noone reveals the engine (so far) ... 1.8 dual-VVTL-i ? 2.0l ? 2.4l? who knows ?

Very doubtful of a T Sport model.

Toyota has gone all green! Don't know why maybe something to do with global warming!

Shame though i would have liked to have seen a fantastic bad ar5e bodykit on the auris and an engine to match the celica and corolla!

As for the Yaris TS thats no longer a TS its an SR. The 1.8 isn't as punchy as the 1zz-fe engine or the 2zz-ge (outside of lift)

I really don't get toyota they are selling themselves out of market by creating cars that are a bit (dare i say it) dull! Yeah the Auris T180 is a beast but where is the body kit? optional i know but there is no definative sports model!

Rolley

[OldSkoO1]

I know what you mean - i am slightly disappointed that the t180 doesnt have nicer trim. Although, Toyota have always said the T180 is the flagship model and not the sports/hot hatch T-Sport equivalent hence the lack of bodykit.

There are probably doing this because from experience they sell a much more normal corolla's/auris' and that they have lost out in the hot hatch world. So by developing a normal looking top of the range model they are hoping to sell more because the sports version didnt appeal to everyone.

I do believe toyota could do so much more in the way of sports saloons and hot hatches - toyota how the knowledge and the engines to make some beasty cars. Especially now they can carbon offset against the aygo's and yaris' i dont understand why they dont.

[dawesy]

the T-180 will drive the pants off the CTS anyway so why bring out a TSPORT.

i doubt here will be any performance improvement for the forseeable future

[OldSkoO1]

I agree with that too dawesy.

From the figures i've seen 50-75 the t180 is quicker than the compressor and it will probably be quicker 30-50 too; especially in 3rd gear. I think its similar in pace to all other hot hatches too.

Its just that on paper its slower 0-60 because of 1st and 2nd gear being a diesel - the gear change slows it down but in gear its a train.

Based on that the critics look at paper figures i bet a few of them reviewing haven't even driven one. So, being a diesel and the paper figures tell a different story it can never compete. If it was a t-sport with a 0-60 of 7secs and TTE body styling i think it would be a different story altogether.

[Jock Fran]

the T-180 will drive the pants off the CTS anyway

Have you driven the T180?

It's quick, but doesn't feel even as quick as a normal CTS, never mind a Compressor!

And it's a diesel!!

[OldSkoO1]

Its been a while since we had a compressor and even longer since we had a t-sport (pre facelift). But the t180 definatly feels in the same league as the compressor, quicker in the figures. Yea its a diesel but it doesnt really sound like one and its !Removed! quick. The torque is great, yea its quite short lived but it rockets you past on overtaking maneuvers very usable power, when you have to rev the !Removed! off a petrol. Its really down to different driving styles - the t180 having lots of power and torque instantly available but short lived so you have to change gear in comparison to petrol where you have to hold it in gear longer. Some prefer the redline and engine speed and sound some prefer the other. I've never driven a diesel before my revent encounters and i thought the same as you. It feels powerless - but you just have to get used to not changing down to get power and to change earlier at 4k to hit the next torquey powerband, once you get used to it, its fun again. :)

Its really just personal preference.

[captainoats]

Yupe real shame that a TS Auris isn't going to see the light of day. I have a TS corolla and might get a 2nd hand compressor (not just yet though) or might have to go for the Civic Type R since Mr T is going all green and boring!

[dawesy]

take a T180 for a test drive, boring theyre not!!!

its time people got rid of this 'diesels are for tractors' thing. think about it what engine won le man??? yep a diesel.

diesel technology has come a lot further than petrol in the last few years, and we are at a point where a diesel will out perform a petrol engine. most of this is down to emmisions as diesels are cleaner. this is a thing affecting all manufacturers so all are going the clean route.

do not be led into this BHP thing. bhp comes from rpm you can increase an engines bhp by reving it higher hence why bakes can make 200bhp from 1.0.

torque is what gets the job done and its this that makes for a quick accelerating car. the one thing diesels have is torque in abundance!

plus whats it matter if you get the same performance if its a diesel of petrol under the bonnet??? thats a vain image problem

[Jock Fran]

do not be led into this BHP thing. bhp comes from rpm you can increase an engines bhp by reving it higher hence why bakes can make 200bhp from 1.0.

torque is what gets the job done and its this that makes for a quick accelerating car. the one thing diesels have is torque in abundance!

Funnily enough that is one of the most common mis-conceptions you get.

The torque output of the engine tells you virtually nothing about how fast the car will accelerate. This is because you've got a gearbox and differential etc. to go through before getting the torque to the wheels where it actually counts. The torque at the wheels will be more than the torque at the engine because of the gearing. Diesels need to have higher gearing than petrols because they don't rev as high (eg you want the car to be able to do 60mph at the top of 2nd gear, a diesel revving to 4.5k needs 13.3 mph/1000rpm whereas a petrol revving to 6k only needs 10). This means the torque in the petrol is multiplied up more on its way to the wheels.

This is why some bright spark came up with the concept of power, because it takes this into account!!

If 2 cars are doing the same speed along the road and the drivers both floor it, it is the one who's engine is producing the most power that will accelerate quicker, not the one who's engine is producing the most torque! (assuming they have the same weight, aerodynamics etc.)

Sorry for the essay, it's all a bit complicated.... :D

[OldSkoO1]

Technicals are interesting but problem is i know nothing about them.

What i cant understand is, 0-60 the T180 is 7.9sec, the supercharged CTS is around 6 / 6.5 yet the T180 is as quick 30-50 / 50-70 as the CTS and cars like the Golf GTI or even a Type-R. Surely the T180's extra torque and in gear performance counts for something. Is the T180's gearing that makes it slow from a standing start?

[Jock Fran]

Technicals are interesting but problem is i know nothing about them.

What i cant understand is, 0-60 the T180 is 7.9sec, the supercharged CTS is around 6 / 6.5 yet the T180 is as quick 30-50 / 50-70 as the CTS and cars like the Golf GTI or even a Type-R. Surely the T180's extra torque and in gear performance counts for something. Is the T180's gearing that makes it slow from a standing start?

That's because the 30-50 and 50-70 times are usually in 3rd and 5th gears respectively. Diesels always do well in the "high gear low speed" tests because they are producing more torque at the low revs (and hence more power, power = torque x revs) where it typically starts off in the "in gear" tests.

If you time them in the lowest gear(s) you could use, eg 30-50 in 2nd then the most powerful cars always come out on top.

Diesels feel slow from a standing start because they have a long first gear, and when starting off you theoretically have to go through the whole rev range from 0rpm, at the very bottom of the rev range (before the turbo gets going) diesels don't really produce any more torque than petrols, so until it gets going it doesn't have the torque it needs to overcome the high gearing.

[LEXUS]

Yes,diesels are for tractors! Not for hot hatch. Who the hell would want to drive his hot hatch "high gear low speed" The Diesels are dead below 2000 rpm. and above 4000 rpm.. Yes they are competitive and useful for trucks because they have to carry heaVY LOADS,so the torque is important,but i haven't seen a serious sport car with diesel engine! And that's because everyone who drives a sports car want to feel the engine,to feel the rpm.The petrol engine is suitable for sports car,because it can revs from 1200rpm to 8500 rpm. ,when we talk about Corolla T Sport for example.Who wants to drive"high gear low speed"style he isn't for sports car.

And diesel isn't more modern than petrol engine these days.It only seems like that. Because without turbo,diesel is nothing-sluggish.So 10 years ago diesels were just durty,sluggish engines and they were no competition to petrols.Now they put them turbo,increased the injectors pressure and they are now competition to petrols,nothing more.But petrols are modern too now.The vvt-i systems are huge improvement in economy and dynamics.And petrols emits no particles,petrol engines are simplier,lighter,so handling is better!They cost less too.

Yes,i still think diesels are modest engines with no future,because they are dirty,so they need more filters and catalic converters,particle filter,and all this makes this cars more and more expensive.

The future is in Hybrids ,they are clean and need no such expensive filters.So they're clean,fast,with much torque thanks to the electromotor,they are economic,modern and hi-tech.

The disel exist more than a century and it always've been used for tractors and trucks and in sluggish and dirty cars.It's improvement is so slow-just added turbo and high-pressure injection,that's all for a century.And even now diesels emit particles like tractors and are not allowed to be sold in the USA.They have no future!

Sorry for poor English. :!Removed!:

[OldSkoO1]

Interesting points

Dont forget the majority of people buy diesel for longer distance commutes and economy benefits as well as good motorway/higher speed performance. A much smaller number of people buy diesel who travel short distances prefer diesel performance gains over the equivalent petrol.

Then theres the minority who buy faster diesel engines like the T180 and especially the BMW 330 / 335d engines who want very brisk performance but still maintaining good fuel economy. The T180 is as fast as the supercharged CTS in gear and that returns 20MPG, the T180 will give you 40.

If i didn't travel so far to work everyday i would buy an Audi RS4, i could buy a 2nd hand one now but the fuel bills would be fairly silly. Therefore i'm looking at fast diesel engines as an alternative / compromise.

[dawesy]

the t sport is dead upto 6000 rpm!!!!! so the usable powerband is about the same 2000rpm.

do you know that BHP dosnt exist as such, it is a calculation form torque.

rolling roads measure torque to get the BHP figure.

only drove a tsport once and TBH it was tiring, having to rev the nuts off it to get anywhere, yes great for a track car or a chav that drives flat out all the time but not so as a quick road car.

[K19NE G]

The one thing you are all missing out on in the diesel vs petrol debate for a hot hatch is the sound of the engine... dawesy, no matter what you say you CANNOT beat the sound of a high revving petrol engine especially with the basic induction kit and exhaust set-up!

I have to admit that fast diesels are attracting my attention... but I'm not quite convinced yet hence why I've bought a cheap Celica to fill the void until I can afford something new or a company car comes along...

[Jock Fran]

do you know that BHP dosnt exist as such, it is a calculation form torque.

You could say that about anything though.....

Torque is just a calculation from a Force and a Distance.

If you think the T180 is the dog's then fair enough. But I've driven one and definately would never ever ever have one.

Almost entirely because it is a diesel. I don't like the sound, I don't like the fact they don't rev. I'm not too interested in the low down performance (I have a left arm and leg that allow me to change gear in my T Sport if I need more performance) but I guess it would be nice. I certainly wouldn't trade some low down grunt for a lack of top end revs and noise though!

I think my next car will be a turbo petrol like the Golf GTI. That way you get the best of both worlds.

[OldSkoO1]

Funnily doesnt the GTI drives best if you change up early? The torque is sapped by 7krpm and your get more boost earlier i thought.

[Jock Fran]

Funnily doesnt the GTI drives best if you change up early? The torque is sapped by 7krpm and your get more boost earlier i thought.

Wouldn't have thought so. Nothing drives best by changing up early, you have to get up to the power peak. I think the Golf only goes to 6k revs (not 8 but still better than 4.5! :D ).

[JonoW]

If you think the T180 is the dog's then fair enough. But I've driven one and definately would never ever ever have one.

Almost entirely because it is a diesel. I don't like the sound, I don't like the fact they don't rev. I'm not too interested in the low down performance (I have a left arm and leg that allow me to change gear in my T Sport if I need more performance) but I guess it would be nice. I certainly wouldn't trade some low down grunt for a lack of top end revs and noise though!

I think my next car will be a turbo petrol like the Golf GTI. That way you get the best of both worlds.

I really don't mean to troll here, but isn't the corolla t-sport meant to be the worst chassis/engine marriage ever (if you believe the reviews)?

I'm after decent mid-range performance - the 50-70 or 40-80 accelleration to get past people who think that pootling along in an NSL is fun for everyone else behind them.

Nothing I've driven is as good as a turbodiesel in that respect. Sure, they run out of steam shortly after that, and the power band's pretty narrow, but I'd rather not have to thrash the hell out of the engine to get it to do anything like you do with the 1.8vvti or a vtec.

Agree with you on the sound thing

You could be right, the T180 might be a heap of crap. I'll find out tomorrow ;)

[OldSkoO1]

The in gear performance is what matters to me as you say Jono. I'd love a fast petrol engine, i'd love an RS4 as my first choice or an S2000. I have also toyed with getting an 2nd hand S3 or even a cheap Type-R as a stop gap but the rising cost of owning a heavy C02 emitting cars and the fuel bills not to mention that owning a powerful car for speed cameras / vans in this country has put me off petrol for now.

The T180 is easily fast enough to get some enjoyment out of driving, the fact it runs out of puff at 4k rpm in 3rd reminds you your probably breaking the speed limit :D - not such a bad thing. The T180 could never be considered by a petrol-head doesn't matter what diesel you give them they will reject it. The BMW 335d is an absolute beast - i'd love one but a petrol head wouldn't simple because you turn the key and you run into your first problem. You press the accelerator, in steps the 2nd problem. Depends what your after and what your comfortable with; i would easily get those petrol cars i mentioned if the things weren't stacked so much against performance petrol.

God knows how people cope who drive super cars. A guy at work has a 911 and he has no-where top open it up.

[Jock Fran]

I really don't mean to troll here, but isn't the corolla t-sport meant to be the worst chassis/engine marriage ever (if you believe the reviews)?

I'm after decent mid-range performance - the 50-70 or 40-80 accelleration to get past people who think that pootling along in an NSL is fun for everyone else behind them.

Lol yes if you believe all the reviews the CTS is an awful car. But I'm certainly enjoying mine. Funnily enough I came from a very well respected "driver's car" (Pug 306 XSi) and the CTS is a much better car. Reviews are all subjective really (just like me not liking the T180). Best to just drive cars yourself and make up your own mind.

What do you mean by midrange performance?

If you select the right gear then a CTS will be faster at overtaking a car than a T180 (OK there may be some speed increments when it's the other way round due to needing a gearchange or something). 40-60 it's about as quick as a Lotus Elise. Granted a T180 (or any turbo diesel) will be faster on the overtake if you are pootling behind Mr 40mph in 4th/5th gear and don't bother to change down to get past. But if you make proper use of the gears (and do it more safely) the more powerful car (not the more torquey car) will be quicker.