Rav 4 03 Clutch /dmf

[jg92]

:( :(

looks like there is still a problem with Rav 4 fly wheels , I own an 02/ 03 D4D with 57k on the clock and quess what , strange intermittant rattle from bell housing @ idle which has know developed into a serious squeal , main dealer has confirmed 99% sure its a dmf failure , toyota customer service advised that the earlier model 02 had a problen , and the warenty had been extended to 100k or 5yrs , however as they claim the 03 models have a revised DMF the extended warenty is not vaild , and there is no warenty issue with the new unit ?. Dealer quoted, wait for it £2.5k , yes pounds not miles , spoke with Toyota again who will not admit to a problem with revised part , however if i agree to an inspection and it appears that the clutch has damaged the flywheel then it may be covered under warranty , and if not they may be in a position to offer a goodwill gensture on parts . Re questioned price and dealer has quoted £1600.00, for a new clutch and flywheel .

Some points of interest .

1. "Valeo" parts manuf do a solid flywheel & clutch kit at around £800 and claim it has all the properties of a DMF , they also have won awards from Toyota in the past .

2. it appears that some UK police forces who use RAV 4'S are now fitting solid flywheels ?

3. looks like Toyota will not admitt to a problem with the revised DMF ?.at this point , i think contact with a televised consumer program may change that view .

4. The second hand RAV 4 market needs to be aware of this COSTLY problem on what otherwise is a brillant car, pity Toyota want the reputation to be tarnished !

[anchorman]

Interesting.

It remains to be seen if 2.2 D4D's suffer with the same problem. If they do then I'm afraid I will be changing the flywheel myself as I suspect most of that whopping bill is labour - it is quite a big job. However, if I mess about with it for a couple of days in my garage it will save all that and I can only blame myself if the wiring harness isn't fastened up in the right place or trim clips are missing etc as they often are when they come back from a rush job at the dealer.

I have a concern with a solid flywheel in that if anything happens to the transmission, Toyota will blame the DMF. It doesn't concern vehicles out of warranty but the DMF is supposed to protect the gearbox from the shock impulses from the engine - especially common rail diesels.

I would be very interested to hear the comments of anybody who has fitted one to a diesel RAV;

How does it feel? Does it seem to transmit any more vibration than it did before?? Does anyone know what Toyota charges to buy the DMF???

Regards

[jg92]

Interesting.

It remains to be seen if 2.2 D4D's suffer with the same problem. If they do then I'm afraid I will be changing the flywheel myself as I suspect most of that whopping bill is labour - it is quite a big job. However, if I mess about with it for a couple of days in my garage it will save all that and I can only blame myself if the wiring harness isn't fastened up in the right place or trim clips are missing etc as they often are when they come back from a rush job at the dealer.

I have a concern with a solid flywheel in that if anything happens to the transmission, Toyota will blame the DMF. It doesn't concern vehicles out of warranty but the DMF is supposed to protect the gearbox from the shock impulses from the engine - especially common rail diesels.

I would be very interested to hear the comments of anybody who has fitted one to a diesel RAV;

How does it feel? Does it seem to transmit any more vibration than it did before?? Does anyone know what Toyota charges to buy the DMF???

Regards

The labour cost by Toyota dealership £500+vat , clutch & dmf 1k , i would guess the dmf to be around £700--£800 !.

[IanS]

Interesting.

It remains to be seen if 2.2 D4D's suffer with the same problem. If they do then I'm afraid I will be changing the flywheel myself as I suspect most of that whopping bill is labour - it is quite a big job. However, if I mess about with it for a couple of days in my garage it will save all that and I can only blame myself if the wiring harness isn't fastened up in the right place or trim clips are missing etc as they often are when they come back from a rush job at the dealer.

I have a concern with a solid flywheel in that if anything happens to the transmission, Toyota will blame the DMF. It doesn't concern vehicles out of warranty but the DMF is supposed to protect the gearbox from the shock impulses from the engine - especially common rail diesels.

I would be very interested to hear the comments of anybody who has fitted one to a diesel RAV;

How does it feel? Does it seem to transmit any more vibration than it did before?? Does anyone know what Toyota charges to buy the DMF???

Regards

The labour cost by Toyota dealership £500+vat , clutch & dmf 1k , i would guess the dmf to be around £700--£800 !.

Re my postings on March 17 and 27 on my RAV4 flywheel failure, I've now had the clutch and flywheel replaced. The bill was eye-watering, but not quite as bad as I'd expected from reading other postings on this subject. I still think one would expect a flywheel to last much longer than 4 years/50k miles so it does seem that this dual mass flywheel design left a lot to be desired. I believe that Peugeots, Fords, VW's and Land Rovers have suffered similarly so somebody thought the DMF was the answer to diesel torque and it has proved to be not the case.

I had seriously considered contacting Watchdog, Trading Standards, Which and various motoring mags. but I have doubts this would get me very far. Toyota have replaced failed flywheels under warranty, but not when just outside the warranty period which is their legal right and other contributors have also pointed out that legally we'd probably get nowhere with Toyota. However, Toyota seem to recognize there is a serious problem, albeit obliquely, by paying up to varying degrees and in an inconsistent way, when owners complain.

I'm told the new RAV4 has a "different" flywheel, so maybe we unfortunate owners have helped to contribute to some R & D that will benefit future owners! If you want belt and braces, consider an extended warranty if it covers flywheel failure.

Toyota used to go the extra mile in customer care but it seems that now they are just another big, faceless car manufacturer that doesn't rate the customer very highly.

Having said all this I have nothing but praise for my local dealer who has been courteous, helpful and understanding throughout and has given a first-rate service. It's just a shame that Toyota as an organization can't behave in like fashion.

IanS

[J.4]

Interesting.

It remains to be seen if 2.2 D4D's suffer with the same problem. If they do then I'm afraid I will be changing the flywheel myself as I suspect most of that whopping bill is labour - it is quite a big job. However, if I mess about with it for a couple of days in my garage it will save all that and I can only blame myself if the wiring harness isn't fastened up in the right place or trim clips are missing etc as they often are when they come back from a rush job at the dealer.

I have a concern with a solid flywheel in that if anything happens to the transmission, Toyota will blame the DMF. It doesn't concern vehicles out of warranty but the DMF is supposed to protect the gearbox from the shock impulses from the engine - especially common rail diesels.

I would be very interested to hear the comments of anybody who has fitted one to a diesel RAV;

How does it feel? Does it seem to transmit any more vibration than it did before?? Does anyone know what Toyota charges to buy the DMF???

Regards

I have a 2002 Rav4 D4-D, and until now, 150.000 Km, I had no problems regarding the clutch. Just now I am starting to "feel" that its faiding a bit on higher RPM's... The replacement kit is also a watering eye bill, so I won't be changing it yet, but its interesting to know about some issues this model had. I purchased my rav4 with 75.000kms on it, and had practically no inconveniences with it

The labour cost by Toyota dealership £500+vat , clutch & dmf 1k , i would guess the dmf to be around £700--£800 !.

Re my postings on March 17 and 27 on my RAV4 flywheel failure, I've now had the clutch and flywheel replaced. The bill was eye-watering, but not quite as bad as I'd expected from reading other postings on this subject. I still think one would expect a flywheel to last much longer than 4 years/50k miles so it does seem that this dual mass flywheel design left a lot to be desired. I believe that Peugeots, Fords, VW's and Land Rovers have suffered similarly so somebody thought the DMF was the answer to diesel torque and it has proved to be not the case.

I had seriously considered contacting Watchdog, Trading Standards, Which and various motoring mags. but I have doubts this would get me very far. Toyota have replaced failed flywheels under warranty, but not when just outside the warranty period which is their legal right and other contributors have also pointed out that legally we'd probably get nowhere with Toyota. However, Toyota seem to recognize there is a serious problem, albeit obliquely, by paying up to varying degrees and in an inconsistent way, when owners complain.

I'm told the new RAV4 has a "different" flywheel, so maybe we unfortunate owners have helped to contribute to some R & D that will benefit future owners! If you want belt and braces, consider an extended warranty if it covers flywheel failure.

Toyota used to go the extra mile in customer care but it seems that now they are just another big, faceless car manufacturer that doesn't rate the customer very highly.

Having said all this I have nothing but praise for my local dealer who has been courteous, helpful and understanding throughout and has given a first-rate service. It's just a shame that Toyota as an organization can't behave in like fashion.

IanS

[airborne9]

:( :(

looks like there is still a problem with Rav 4 fly wheels , I own an 02/ 03 D4D with 57k on the clock and quess what , strange intermittant rattle from bell housing @ idle which has know developed into a serious squeal , main dealer has confirmed 99% sure its a dmf failure , toyota customer service advised that the earlier model 02 had a problen , and the warenty had been extended to 100k or 5yrs , however as they claim the 03 models have a revised DMF the extended warenty is not vaild , and there is no warenty issue with the new unit ?. Dealer quoted, wait for it £2.5k , yes pounds not miles , spoke with Toyota again who will not admit to a problem with revised part , however if i agree to an inspection and it appears that the clutch has damaged the flywheel then it may be covered under warranty , and if not they may be in a position to offer a goodwill gensture on parts . Re questioned price and dealer has quoted £1600.00, for a new clutch and flywheel .

Some points of interest .

1. "Valeo" parts manuf do a solid flywheel & clutch kit at around £800 and claim it has all the properties of a DMF , they also have won awards from Toyota in the past .

2. it appears that some UK police forces who use RAV 4'S are now fitting solid flywheels ?

3. looks like Toyota will not admitt to a problem with the revised DMF ?.at this point , i think contact with a televised consumer program may change that view .

4. The second hand RAV 4 market needs to be aware of this COSTLY problem on what otherwise is a brillant car, pity Toyota want the reputation to be tarnished !

[airborne9]

My 02 Rav 4 D4D has done 59k and the fly wheel has failed.. the repair £2300!! Toyota will not help. They are now saying 60k or 5yrs which ever is the earliest.

I would be interested to know what forum members think.

[MarsKy]

My 02 Rav 4 D4D has done 59k and the fly wheel has failed.. the repair £2300!! Toyota will not help. They are now saying 60k or 5yrs which ever is the earliest.

I would be interested to know what forum members think.

I suspect that they have been having so many starting around the 60k mileage that they got twitchy about the cost of their liabilities on the 100k offer.

And I hate seeing calendar year warranties for mileage related failures.

Anyway, see if this is a cheaper option: DMF + Clutch on ebay

Edit: or you could go Solid Flywheel

[firemac]

My 02 Rav 4 D4D has done 59k and the fly wheel has failed.. the repair £2300!! Toyota will not help. They are now saying 60k or 5yrs which ever is the earliest.

I would be interested to know what forum members think.

I suspect that they have been having so many starting around the 60k mileage that they got twitchy about the cost of their liabilities on the 100k offer.

And I hate seeing calendar year warranties for mileage related failures.

Anyway, see if this is a cheaper option: DMF + Clutch on ebay

Edit: or you could go Solid Flywheel

I sympathise with all these comments particularly re Toyota's current appalling customer care policy. Although never having had a DMF failure on my diesels, we did suffer a cat failure on our 02 VVTi auto with only 55K on the clock, a FTSH and an extended warranty from 2005 until mid-2010 when Mr.T said "p155 off, the car's too old now". Guess what? The cat failed a week after the warranty expired. The fact that we had 3 EMS sensor failures during the last 6 months of the warranty didn't seem to flag up the failing cat issue to Mr. T's "technicians". The dealer stuck to his "we followed the Toyota procedure" line throughout and only offered a paltry £50 goodwill gesture on a £625 job.

I thought, stupidly as it turned out, that having been a "Toyota family" since our first Yaris in 2000, followed by 2 RAVs, an Aygo & a Land Cruiser,

Toyota GB might be reasonable, particularly as the evidence of cat failure was clear prior to the warranty expiring. But no, even a letter to Miguel Fonseca, the GB CEO, got the "f%@k off" response. So our unshakeable faith in Toyota has been destroyed and, much as we love the RAV (and we've replaced the cat ourselves meanwhile), it will be our last Toyota. I am currently looking for a new car and Toyotas are no longer on my list, having always been at the top of a list of one. It might be a case of cutting off my nose to spite my face but I'd even consider something with a green oval on the grille if I get the right deal. And I'll never recommend a Toyota again, having done so on more occasions than I can count - and lots of those folks went on to follow my advice.

In the course of becoming the largest vehicle manufacturer in the world, Toyota have lost sight of their customers as being the people who put them there. !Removed! shame since, by and large, the product is good and up until recently, the customer had value. But I won't be ***** upon, so it's "Syonara, Miguel. Your turn to f&@k off".

[MarsKy]

something with a green oval on the grille if I get the right deal.

Skoda Superb 4x4 gets great reviews - and I actually like the Yeti.

In the course of becoming the largest vehicle manufacturer in the world, Toyota have lost sight of their customers as being the people who put them there. !Removed! shame since, by and large, the product is good and up until recently, the customer had value.

The heid bummer at Toyota admitted as much after the brake recall debacle - quality and customer service levels dropped as they pursued sales and expansion.

[dognobbler]

Anchorman i fitted a solid flywheel about 3 months ago . I can definitely 'feel' the transmission through my foot when changing gear as all damping has gone , trouble is some chancer had welded the original dmf up so i can't compare against a good un , works fine though and you soon get used to it - cost £250 . Obviously time will tell regarding transmission damage .

[firemac]

something with a green oval on the grille if I get the right deal.

Skoda Superb 4x4 gets great reviews - and I actually like the Yeti.

In the course of becoming the largest vehicle manufacturer in the world, Toyota have lost sight of their customers as being the people who put them there. !Removed! shame since, by and large, the product is good and up until recently, the customer had value.

The heid bummer at Toyota admitted as much after the brake recall debacle - quality and customer service levels dropped as they pursued sales and expansion.

Yes, I've seen good reviews for the Yeti; it also has been quoted in some 4x4 mags as having just as much internal space as a LC - pretty incredible.

The Superb is also good but it is just so out of proportion and, well, ugly. I can't drive with a bag over my head.

I'm pi55ed off at Toyota about their crap attitude but it's additionally annoying because I like the RAV4, old & new, & I'd have a 4.3 tomorrow but I won't give my money to somebody who thinks I'm just a c@nt!

[rambler]

Hi folks

Had my DMF replaced at 87'000,costed as shown......( have deleted important bits....i think)

[nig.xl]

Anchorman i fitted a solid flywheel about 3 months ago . I can definitely 'feel' the transmission through my foot when changing gear as all damping has gone , trouble is some chancer had welded the original dmf up so i can't compare against a good un , works fine though and you soon get used to it - cost £250 . Obviously time will tell regarding transmission damage .

I recently fitted a conversion kit from Euro, cost me just under £300 delivered and feels exactly the same as the original (before it started to play up). Did you change the clutch at the same time as the flywheel as I understand that the solid flywheel clutch has better damping properties.

I wonder why these DMF were fitted, maybe it was just because their competitors were doing it ? In my opinion there is no need to have a DMF on this engine, I run 2 D4Ds and have been driving one for more than 3 years so I can compare them side by side. When the DMF needs replacing on our 2nd car it will have a solid kit also

[anchorman]

The solid DMF that I fitted with a mate had a really well made hub damper on the driven plate. I'm fairly sure you can't feel the transmission but I'll pay more attention if I drive it again.

[rocky4x4]

Regarding the clutch and dual mass flywheel my own experiences maybe of interest. We purchased a RAV4 D4D last year in March from a dealer (not Toyota) in Leeds. The vehicle is a 5 door 05 registered with 90K and a full Toyota service history. We test drove the vehicle and all appeared to be satisfactory. The dealer "included" a three month warranty with the vehicle which was provided with a company also in the Leeds area and offered to extend the warranty if we wished for an additional payment which I declined.I insisted the vehicle was supplied with twelve months MOT(which I paid for). We traded in a showroom condition two year old Nissan Qashqai which we had owned since new but was useless in snow as it was the two wheel drive version.The RAV seemed OK for the first couple of weeks then suddenly one evening it refused to go into any gear luckily on our drive and I had to arrange for the vehicle to be collected.It was at this point things got complicated.

I had asked the dealer when he sold us the vehicle in the event of a breakdown during the warranty period what action we should take and was advised to have the fault diagnosed and contact the warranty company. I therefore had the vehicle collected by a Toyota dealer in Wakefield and inspected. They confirmed the Dual Mass flywheel had failed. I then contacted the warranty company and advised them of the situtaion. The warranty company confirmed they would send their engineer to inspect the vehicle at the Toyota dealers but would not confirm when this would be in writing.I also informed the dealer in Leeds who I purchased the vehicle from that the vehicle was out of action and I required a courtesy vehicle, they said they would call me back but never did.

Eventually the Warranty company sent an engineer to inspect the vehicle and I received a call the following week from the Toyota dealer (not the Warranty company)confirming the dual mass flywheel has failed and needed replacement along with a new clutch assembly and the Warranty company refused to cover this under the vehicle warranty but would not supply a reason. I was quite suprised by this decision especially as no one from the warranty company had the courtesy to contact me to confirm this beforehand. The Toyota dealer agreed to store the vehicle (at my risk) whilst I attempted to sort out who would repair the vehicle and who would pay for the repair.

I then put pen to paper in earnest and wrote to the following stirring up a hornets nest of activity:

Consumer Direct

The dealer who sold me the vehicle

The previous owners of the vehicle

Toyota GB

The warranty company

MOT records office

The Toyota dealers who previously serviced the vehicle

The Warranty company would not provide me with a copy of their engineers report even though the DMF unit failed suddenly and had completely seized furthermore I agreed to pay for a copy of the report but they stated in a letter that the failure was deemed concurrent with the age and condition of the vehicle. I contested this and obtained written support from the previous owners and attempted to extract historical failure rates from Toyota UK.

I also applied pressure to the dealer who supplied the vehicle to me via Consumer Direct and eventually after several weeks of correspondence they agreed to repair the vehicle and provide me with a courtesy vehicle they also had to pay the recovery,dismantling,inspection and storage charges at the Toyota dealers.They had the vehicle repaired themselves at a garage they must use regularly. I obtained for the vehicle service history a written confirmation of the items replaced and associated labour charges. I also persuaded the dealer who sold nme the vehicle to include a complimentary 90K service for the vehicle for my time and trouble.

I must state that throughout the whole duration of this matter the Toyota dealer was the most patient, communicative, helpful, polite and courteous company I dealt with.The warranty company in contrast were not but it underwrote my decision not to extend my warranty with them. The vehicle is currently running OK and performed quite well during the recent heavy snow we experienced. I have not owned a true Toyota previously although I did own a Daihatsu(a division of Toyota) Fourtrak for sixteen years, a truly remarkable vehicle which I have to say despite having covered 130K was in near showroom condition when I sold it. Apart from regular servicing ,two radiator recores ,a set of glow plugs, brakes and tyres it just ran without problems.

Would I buy another RAV4? Not sure about that at the moment, I'll see how the next twelve months ownership goes but having read the DMF posts on this and other sites unexpected failure of the unit is a signifcant factor to consider when purchasing any vehicle fitted with such a unit and especially a RAV4.

Apologies for the long post, just thought this might be of interest to others.

[bothwell_buyer]

welcome to the forum albeit with a bit of a shock. Well done on persevering - the dmf issue is well documented here and in other forums. Generally the dmf caused many problems - Ford Transits being hit hard!

I hope you get more like the proper RAV4 experience that I have enjoyed over the 17 years of owning 1.

[anchorman]

Welcome to the club and thank you for taking the time to write such a thorough report.

You will find that the DMF subject is well documented on this forum and there is a lengthy thread in the pinned section.

It would seem from looking through other forums that RAV DMFs are far from the worst. It is annoying the way the warranty company has washed their hands. There have been similar accounts here in the past and it would seem that very few third party warranties are worth the money. I believe the Toyota one is very good but I personally don't bother with any of them.

[rocky4x4]

Thank you both for your comments and the warm welcome to the forum.I have been following the TOC site for quite some time and in my opinion it is better reading than most,presumably down to the calibre of the individual contributors.If anyone is interested in the Daihatsu OC site have a look at http://www.daihatsu-drivers.co.uk which is also similarly informative and as Daihatsu are a division of Toyota the site maybe of interest to other forum contributors and readers.

If anyone is interested in looking at a "Daihatsu Toyota" my old Fourtrak can be seen at http://www.daihatsu-drivers.co.uk/node/7762.I traded it in last year for a 2006 Honda CRV Diesel with 160K on which has proved to be a fantastic vehicle especially in the recent snow and despite the high mileage runs superbly. I miss the Fourtrak and I am still looking for a late model Y plate(the last year of Fourtrak registration) in good condition which are rare. This would not be for day to day use but be garaged for restoration to "as new". Winter is the wrong time to look , 4x4 prices tend to soften in summer.My other option is a Range Rover Vogue Auto Dieselbut again prices are inflated during the winter months.

[Andy Pigott]

Just had the same issues with our RAV4 D4D too at 52k. Thanks to this site I diagnosed early which prevented full breakdown so a very big thankyou.

Used local small garage near Hemel Hempstead who did the following:-

- Replaced DMF with solid flywheel with lifetime guarantee

- Replaced clutch

- Replaced water pump assembly (had clearly been leaking for ages!)

- Replaced Cam belt

- Replaced Cam belt tensioner assembly

- Renewed all oils, coolant & steering fluid

- Replaced all filters

- Replaced original Battery (8 years old)

Oh, and MOT whilst they were at it!

They ended up dropping both engine and gearbox which seemed the best option as there are a couple of difficult to access bolts on the gearbox side and water-pump end is pretty cramped too.

Now driving just fine, though concur with the earlier comment around different feel on the clutch pedal, though it is now much lighter which the good lady appreciates.

Dread to think how much that little lot would have cost at Toyota, but I got change out of £1,500 with a really great customer service throughout. Somebody more learned than me can tot up the parts cost

accurately but I am guessing little change out of £800 to £900 minimum.

Happy to recommend them to anyone in the Herts, Bucks or Beds area if anyone wants to get in touch.

Andy

[anchorman]

Welcome to the club.

I think you did really well with that lot. Thanks for the info.

[brizee]

Well I too fell foul to the dreaded dual mass flywheel...... After working late at work.. Harding home at 4am middle of no where. Pop..... Revs....... No gears...... Sweaty words........ 5 hour walk home..... In the snow........ Typical again.......

Anyways...

Got tow to garage. Stripped and deafo dmf.... parts ordered...

Bits arrived and assembled.... Start her up and....... Well wasn't pleasant...... Stripped it and wrong clutch plate...... Boogers........

*****NOTE***** can not mix brands for plate and flywheel....*******

Anyways stripped again new plate and bobs your uncle..

600 pounds jobs a good un.....didn't take that long to be honest... Not the worst I have done either.. Transfer box really does get in the way though.....

Should have taken photos repay the forum..... But swear words were all over the place........

Happy rav'in....

[local hero]

Well done, the cheapest DMF/clutch replacement i have hear of Stew